ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[Karinna]

I could think of nothing more stressful than taking a 2 year old camping in that rough and rugged terrain. It's been a long time but when my kids were that age the "terrible two's" as they are called, where they throw their little "tanty's" etc. i would of had to tether a two year old with a rope on a harness to a tree or something in that wilderness if i had to take him up into the mountains. Wonder why his parents couldn't have just left him in grandma's care, and go off as adults for a stress free camping trip? Plenty of time when they get older to take them camping if that is someone's thing. I went camping once with my best friend's parents as a young teenager, and i hated it LOL. The whole story of little Deorr's disappearance is strange IMO.

 

[The Apparition]

Well then we have something In common, I would die trying to find my lost child, I would have become Sasquatch, hair and all before I left that mountain. I am lucky though, my husband has a great job that pays the bills and I could stay looking for a lost loved one for as long as it took until I found "him". Not everyone has the funds to do that....

I am certainly trying to be on my best behavior, but this is where our paths once again diverge. Yes not everyone is as lucky as you (thanks for sharing), but cynical people (such as myself) would point out the parents turned down 20k in reward money and national exposure. I believe that was a major factor in PI Vilt's departure from the case. Certainly a questionable decision for parents who truly are trying to find their missing child. My second point is perhaps simple working folk can't move up to the campsite, totally understood, yet "they" wasted 6 months of 2016 not searching before launching 2 thrown together searches in October. There are too many "odd" circumstances surrounding the parents for me to believe they are truly just the victims of terrible luck and their toddler wandered off and perished. I view their efforts as so minimal as to be for show, but once again I am a deeply disturbed, sarcastic, snarky, individual so opinions may vary!

 

[The Apparition]

My thought is this. In Idaho, and many other states, there is a thing called felony murder. Basically it means that if someone is killed, no matter how, during the commission of a felony, all participants are equally guilty of murder. So, for BW and IR to also be covering for the parents, means to me, that all four were up to something bad, and Deorr died during it. Being completely hammered and not watching a kid in a dangerous place would probably be considered a felony. Or leaving him in a hot car to die while cooking meth. Or multitudes of other scenario's. I don't think the theory of JM or VK accidentally killing him through abuse would be enough for BW and IR to possibly go to prison for, unless they were being blackmailed for something that might have a much harsher sentence. All my own opinion.

Felony murder is usually applied to violent crimes or crimes with a reasonable expectation of death like arson, rape, and kidnapping. Getting all lit up while camping and leaving a kid to die in a car would certainly not result in felony murder charges for all parties present. I know opinions vary but personally I think we have 2 maaaybe 3 involved parties and one rube along for the ride who just happens to have a bad history with the law and a love of sleeping al fresco.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

To "take the hit" the parents would have to be able to lead LE to Deorr's body- and IMO they don't know where he is.

Take the hit in the sense of admitting they do not know where he is or that they were neglectful in not watching him properly or leaving him in the care of someone who was not capable of doing so. So yes take the hit in that regard.

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[Latestforever]

I am certainly trying to be on my best behavior, but this is where our paths once again diverge. Yes not everyone is as lucky as you (thanks for sharing), but cynical people (such as myself) would point out the parents turned down 20k in reward money and national exposure. I believe that was a major factor in PI Vilt's departure from the case. Certainly a questionable decision for parents who truly are trying to find their missing child. My second point is perhaps simple working folk can't move up to the campsite, totally understood, yet "they" wasted 6 months of 2016 not searching before launching 2 thrown together searches in October. There are too many "odd" circumstances surrounding the parents for me to believe they are truly just the victims of terrible luck and their toddler wandered off and perished. I view their efforts as so minimal as to be for show, but once again I am a deeply disturbed, sarcastic, snarky, individual so opinions may vary!

Do we know the exact details of why Vilt said the reward was turned down, or any corroboration from another source? I remember LE saying something to the extent of not donating to a fund me account, I do not remember if LE made a statement about the parents turning down a reward.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

I am a mother of a special needs child, and if my son ever got away from me you can bet I would admit to being negligent and accepting whatever consequences came with that.

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[The Apparition]

Do we know the exact details of why Vilt said the reward was turned down, or any corroboration from another source? I remember LE saying something to the extent of not donating to a fund me account, I do not remember if LE made a statement about the parents turning down a reward.

Uh not sure what you are looking for but Vilt posted a manifesto when he dropped the Kunz/Mitchell/Anderson case. We only have his word as he offered the money from his own sources. As people are quick to point out PI's are not official LE so I'm positive we will never here from LE about Vilt's reward. I would direct you to the media thread where you can brush up on Vilt's letter and any other "official" documents that pertain to this case.

 

[Latestforever]

Uh not sure what you are looking for but Vilt posted a manifesto when he dropped the Kunz/Mitchell/Anderson case. We only have his word as he offered the money from his own sources. As people are quick to point out PI's are not official LE so I'm positive we will never here from LE about Vilt's reward. I would direct you to the media thread where you can brush up on Vilt's letter and any other "official" documents that pertain to this case.

Just so you know I read and watched everything in the media thread before I even began to post here, have a good night.

 

[The Apparition]

I am a mother of a special needs child, and if my son ever got away from me you can bet I would admit to being negligent and accepting whatever consequences came with that.

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You are a decent human, congratulations (no sarcasm), for occasions such as this we have to set our sights lower (troglodyte setting) to try and slither into the minds of the accused parties brains.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

You are a decent human, congratulations (no sarcasm), for occasions such as this we have to set our sights lower (troglodyte setting) to try and slither into the minds of the accused parties brains.

Agreed.

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[koios]

Thank you so much, I own a computer but not a calculator and have never been able to find a free online calculator. I think we would all be lost if you didn't do this math for us. I found one of the sources I was trying to remember so here is a quote with link below.

It takes about 30 minutes to safely travel the roughly 6 miles of rutted and rock-dimpled dirt road that leads to the campsite.

Based upon this article that puts the speed at around 12 MPH, which is probably why the Sheriff said the road couldn't handle more that 15 MPH (he might not be as good at math as you are). So yeah under the best case scenario it would take Vernal 6 to 7.5 minutes to drive 1.5 miles. Bearing in mind he didn't actually drive anywhere to call 911 why does this matter?

http://www.postregister.com/article...est/2016/06/25/heavy-hearts-search-continues#

Certainly not your fault because you reasonably assumed that the article is accurate.
But the "roughly 6 miles" in that article is incorrect.
It's a 9.6 mile drive from Leadore to the campsite, and the accurate source for that is google maps.
If the article's "30 minutes" is correct, that would mean average 19.2 mph "to travel safely".

 

[The Apparition]

Certainly not your fault because you reasonably assumed that the article is accurate.
But the "roughly 6 miles" in that article is incorrect.
It's a 9.6 mile drive from Leadore to the campsite, and the accurate source for that is google maps.
If the article's "30 minutes" is correct, that would mean average 19.2 mph "to travel safely".

Not a bad rebuttal. I will concede I haven't google mapped the route or personally driven it. I have to rely on articles written by local journalists for my "insider" info. Since I know you are actually smart I would say this, if they are inaccurate on the length of the road why wouldn't they be inaccurate on the time? We certainly can't assume they have made a fairly glaring mistake (understating the mileage by about 37%) yet their time estimate is good. Personally, and bearing in mind I don't share your love of mapping, I assume there is a "final stretch" road up to the campsite that is about 6 miles long after leaving actual streets, and that is what the reporter who certainly has been up their is referring to. In closing and to beat the same drum as always, we are talking about 1.5 miles, and we are having this talk despite LE and Klein saying Vernal did not drive down the road to call 911.

 

[koios]

Not a bad rebuttal. I will concede I haven't google mapped the route or personally driven it. I have to rely on articles written by local journalists for my "insider" info. Since I know you are actually smart I would say this, if they are inaccurate on the length of the road why wouldn't they be inaccurate on the time? We certainly can't assume they have made a fairly glaring mistake (understating the mileage by about 37%) yet their time estimate is good. Personally, and bearing in mind I don't share your love of mapping, I assume there is a "final stretch" road up to the campsite that is about 6 miles long after leaving actual streets, and that is what the reporter who certainly has been up their is referring to. In closing and to beat the same drum as always, we are talking about 1.5 miles, and we are having this talk despite LE and Klein saying Vernal did not drive down the road to call 911.

I think it's dirt track all the way from Leadore. 30 minutes is probably about right. This newspaper, whose reporters and film crew did drive up there, says "about a 30 minute drive"
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/isaac-reinwand-nothing-hide-deorrs-disappearance/

 

[KatieLiz]

Could it be at all possible that LE does not want to seem incompetent and is/was feeling pressure from the public to find sweet Deorr? I concede that I do feel that Deorr was left unattended more than once that day and that the parents are guilty of negligence, and this is the reason for the inconsistencies in the stories. Intentional harm to him, I do not believe that. He is there somewhere, lost, just as the parents have said. Doesn't mean I "like" the parents though.

I don't think LE would accuse two parents of murdering their missing child without a good reason. Could you imagine the lawsuits if they found Deorr mauled by an animal or after having died from dehydration or exposure?

Bowerman has flatly stated he believes this to be intentional homicide. That's a pretty strong accusation to lay publicly just to cover your departments @$$. It would be completely incompetent.

 

[TxJan1971]

Do we know the exact details of why Vilt said the reward was turned down, or any corroboration from another source? I remember LE saying something to the extent of not donating to a fund me account, I do not remember if LE made a statement about the parents turning down a reward.

Just so you know I read and watched everything in the media thread before I even began to post here, have a good night.

BBM

From the media thread - Transcript Section

Nate Eaton: All right, so Frank, this letter that’s been going around the internet, it looks like you wrote back in September.

FV: Well, basically I told that because of circumstances beyond my control. I dropped them as clients because of a breach of trust on their part, because they didn’t seem to trust me what I wanted to do. What I mean by that, I wanted to go public with this. I wanted to go national public, and I wanted to advertise we have this little missing boy. We need more eyes and ears to try to find this missing boy. I offered a $20,000 reward, and they did not want me offering the reward. They said that the Sheriff didn’t want it. They said the Sheriff didn’t want to go public, and the Sheriff never mentioned that to me and so… I started finding little…little things that they were inconsistent. Their stories didn’t jive.

<snip>

Nate: Did they ever pay you for any of your services?

FV: No. That’s another thing, too. They said that they paid me but they never paid me. Listen, this reminded me of the fact that in the very beginning when I said I’d work for them - cover my expenses and I won’t charge you for my hourly rate, and then Deorr said, “Well, I have a cousin in Utah that has a Go Fund Me and she has $1,900 and we’ll see you get some of that.” Then a few days later I found out that $1,900 was missing. So whoever this person was, this cousin in Utah, had misappropriated the money and used it for their personal use. One of the other reasons I dropped the case, too, I know that Deorr was uh… was pressuring people to donate money. He was getting money from these folks back in Maryland and these Go Fund Me accounts and then I hear there’s other missing money, and he was exploiting people and I just didn’t want to be involved with any of these things where somebody was exploiting money from other people. It just didn’t add up. It didn’t make sense to me. It didn’t seem like they were like normal people would be for their son being missing. It seemed like they were concealing something and hiding something, and their body language, too. They wouldn’t look you…particularly Jessica, would not look you in the eye. She always looked down, looked away, and even when I tried to go eyeball to eyeball with her when I’d talk to her she would look away and not look me straight in the eye and answer my questions.


Bowerman denies he told family not to do a reward:

Tricia Radio Interview with Bowerman

Bessie: One more real quick question,and it takes us back to Private Investigator Vilt. He said that uh… Vernal—the parents did not want him to offer the reward and said the reason offered and their reason is that you had advised against it. Is there any truth in that?

SB: That’s not true.

~~~
Note: There may be other comments out there in Facebook land regarding the family turning down the $20,000 reward that Vilt offered...

Adding this:

KID RADIO INTERVIEW

FV: <snip> So also I wanted to say I’m offering the reward up to $20,000.

KID: Oh, wow!

FV: I’m offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the location and recovery of the little boy.

 

[The Apparition]

Ahhh, thank you TxJan1971. I felt like I was stuck in Groundhog Day for a minute, you are the "person" for the details. I'm sloppy with that kind of stuff because I remember reading it but am not so sure exactly where to recall it from. When you and KateLiz are on patrol I can relax, it's too much for my unfrozen cave man brain to fend off all these attacks.

 

[KatieLiz]

Ahhh, thank you TxJan1971. I felt like I was stuck in Groundhog Day for a minute, you are the "person" for the details. I'm sloppy with that kind of stuff because I remember reading it but am not so sure exactly where to recall it from. When you and KateLiz are on patrol I can relax, it's too much for my unfrozen cave man brain to fend off all these attacks.

Agreed. When I see TxJan make a post it's like I hear music "Hallelujah!" Haha. I'm on my phone on here all the time and can't be bothered to go to the media thread everytime someone doesn't want to do their own research.
TxJan and her transcriptions are wonderful!!

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

Ahhh, thank you TxJan1971. I felt like I was stuck in Groundhog Day for a minute, you are the "person" for the details. I'm sloppy with that kind of stuff because I remember reading it but am not so sure exactly where to recall it from. When you and KateLiz are on patrol I can relax, it's too much for my unfrozen cave man brain to fend off all these attacks.

Haha Apparition. So funny. I agree 1000%

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[Maggie_Mayz]

Agreed. When I see TxJan make a post it's like I hear music "Hallelujah!" Haha. I'm on my phone on here all the time and can't be bothered to go to the media thread everytime someone doesn't want to do their own research.
TxJan and her transcriptions are wonderful!!

She is the bees knees, no doubt. [emoji219]

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[The Apparition]

Just so you know I read and watched everything in the media thread before I even began to post here, have a good night.

You should check out our side discussion about Ambien. Not for any kind of memory loss reasons, just you know to be informed, because we love you!