ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[neesaki]

That doesn't make sense.

It's a lie if it didn't happen. Which is what LE has stated.

I believe here at websleuths we go by what LE reports. Someone, correct me if I'm wrong?

Exactly, So, back to Misty, what's the explanation, or.... does she have some incriminating evidence that she's withholding and needs to bring forth. <modsnip>

 

[neesaki]

Full recording of J's 911 call
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/
My own transcript (not an official transcript) starting at 34 seconds, MOO.

911Lady: Are you by water?
J: Yes
911Lady: Ok stay on the phone with me ok?
J: Ok
911Lady: I'm going to put you on hold.
911Lady(speaking to 911 man): John!
911Man(in background): yeah
911Lady(speaking to 911 man): I may..." (911Lady suddenly stops sentence here)

Here is how I interpret the audio and it all just my opinion:
It is 911Lady's voice that says "John. I may..."
And it is not "I made the call", nor is it "I made...", it is "I may..."
It can't be J's voice because there is no-one called John at the campground.
Also "John. I may..." has no cellphone distortion.
911Lady, as soon as she hears J say there is water present, puts J on hold and turns to 911Man to say something like "John. We may need search and rescue"
But she stops after "I may" and I assume this is because 911Man is hand-signalling something like "wait" because he can't interrupt the call he is handling.
All MOO.

This is nothing new.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

I am still trying to figure out how we got back to way back when. I lurked back then but even I keep up to date on the fb groups, media postings and kleins page...i just...wow my mind is spinning from one thing to another, round and round...yowser.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[koios]

Would you care to be so forthcoming as to what your agenda is ? Whatever it is, you either have a lot of misinformation, or you're misconstruing the information for a very obvious and specific reason.. How about approaching the case with what's been released by LE and both of the PI's? They obviously have much more information than you do. Right? So Please enlighten us , we are all ears. Tell us all you know.

The opinions of LE and of both PIs about what happened in this case all changed radically as their investigations progressed. That process is likely to continue until the case is solved. It's unlikely that the current theory of LE and KIC is completely correct. Therefore intelligent questioning of parts of their theory and consideration of other ideas is a good thing.

 

[The Apparition]

Full recording of J's 911 call
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/
My own transcript (not an official transcript) starting at 34 seconds, MOO.

911Lady: Are you by water?
J: Yes
911Lady: Ok stay on the phone with me ok?
J: Ok
911Lady: I'm going to put you on hold.
911Lady(speaking to 911 man): John!
911Man(in background): yeah
911Lady(speaking to 911 man): I may..." (911Lady suddenly stops sentence here)

Here is how I interpret the audio and it all just my opinion:
It is 911Lady's voice that says "John. I may..."
And it is not "I made the call", nor is it "I made...", it is "I may..."
It can't be J's voice because there is no-one called John at the campground.
Also "John. I may..." has no cellphone distortion.
911Lady, as soon as she hears J say there is water present, puts J on hold and turns to 911Man to say something like "John. We may need search and rescue"
But she stops after "I may" and I assume this is because 911Man is hand-signalling something like "wait" because he can't interrupt the call he is handling.
All MOO.

You won't like my answer but here goes anyways. I have too many years as a call center supervisor (not emergency services) but I know all about what is going on with this call. Good headsets and Aspect phones have mic mute buttons (sir I'm going to put you on a silent hold) and of course real hold functions. Fun fact when you mic mute the call 90% of people just assume you can't hear them which is of course false, the things you hear when you mic mute, it's just golden! You can also just grab the tiny mic with your hand and hold it tight to mostly mute any sounds. All call centers use counting stats and "official hold with music" is bad so reps mute the mic constantly or just cover it up while getting help. That call is a classic example of a rep getting some assistance on a bad/difficult call without using real hold. There is a great chance this rep is muting the mic quite often and chatting with her co-workers and telling them she has a real live one on the line. Even on the actual call it's hard to tell when mute is applied, the only chance the caller or listener in this case has to know is if there is lots of background noise.

 

[koios]

You won't like my answer but here goes anyways. I have too many years as a call center supervisor (not emergency services) but I know all about what is going on with this call. Good headsets and Aspect phones have mic mute buttons (sir I'm going to put you on a silent hold) and of course real hold functions. Fun fact when you mic mute the call 90% of people just assume you can't hear them which is of course false, the things you hear when you mic mute, it's just golden! You can also just grab the tiny mic with your hand and hold it tight to mostly mute any sounds. All call centers use counting stats and "official hold with music" is bad so reps mute the mic constantly or just cover it up while getting help. That call is a classic example of a rep getting some assistance on a bad/difficult call without using real hold. There is a great chance this rep is muting the mic quite often and chatting with her co-workers and telling them she has a real live one on the line. Even on the actual call it's hard to tell when mute is applied, the only chance the caller or listener in this case has to know is if there is lots of background noise.

Thanks I'd been wondering whether they have mute buttons. In the pause after the lady says "I may ...." I hear background noise still there, so I assume she has not muted by any method, but has actually stopped speaking. What was the full sentence going to be? "John, I made the call" does not fit the context. "John, I may need search and rescue" fits the context ("water") perfectly. All MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

BBM:
Nope! That is not true! "We" didn't hear "only the word of the PI" -- as it was VDK himself who "changed his story." IMO, this particular critical piece of the timeline is just one of the many, ever-changing stories that Bowerman and Klein have told us about repeatedly in MSM, etc. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall someone asked KIC about this same "hauling down the road" activity, and his response was, (paraphrasing) - "This is but one statement of VDK's - but there are 8 others!

To save you the hassle of scrolling back to find it, here's a cut & paste of my previous post on this - post #716 this same thread:

July 13, 2015
Direct Quote from VDK

VDK:
It was 2:36 when she called and I was in the truck hauling down to the road trying to get service because I didn't think one bar would get it. So she got very very lucky. I was blessed that she was able to get service because I didn't think&#8230;I didn't want to try and risk getting half way through my&#8230;talking to 911 and have it cut off. So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road.

Versus:

VDK's Written Statement:

VDK:
Dirt road looking at my phone till I seen I had 2 bars of 3 g service. I slammed on the brakes. I was about 1.5 miles from camp. I call 911 and told them I lost my son but couldn&#8217;t remember the name of where I was. I

Unknown date. (Note: If Klein asked VDK to write this statement, it had to have been in November 2015 when he first came on board. If this is a LE statement that Klein used, then the date could be early on in the investigation. My money is Klein asked VDK to write this but stand to be corrected if otherwise.)


Corroborating the discrepancy:

Klein:
The Cell Phone Impact study was able to determine that Vernal Kunz&#8217;s testimony was fabricated. As well it was determined that Vernal Kunz&#8217;s testimony that he drove 1.5 miles to get a cell signal was not truthful.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07...orr-kunz-case/

bbm red
I notice: VDK 1. doesn't know where he is at all BUT 2. did know short time before exactly where and how far he had to "haul down" to get cellphone service. Does he know the area or not? How many times -since Thursday evening!- did he use that "well known" place to have cellphone service?? Would be interesting to learn ...

 

[KatieLiz]

The opinions of LE and of both PIs about what happened in this case all changed radically as their investigations progressed. That process is likely to continue until the case is solved. It's unlikely that the current theory of LE and KIC is completely correct. Therefore intelligent questioning of parts of their theory and consideration of other ideas is a good thing.

You say the opinions of LE have changed radically.
We say the stories of the suspects have changed radically.

Yet you guys choose to believe every word the suspects have said- changing stories or not.... yet you don't believe the investigators who first believed these parents to be victims but then followed the evidence to an educated conclusion...

This makes zero sense. Logically.

And you don't need to tell those of us following here to consider others ideas. There are 29 threads here. In the beginning we were incredibly defensive of J and V and like you, were grasping at Straws to explain their behaviour. Unfortunately, or fortunately, we all began figuring it out shortly before LE publicly turned their attention towards J and V.

Instead of listening to logic or reason, or the LE or FBI, you are listening to two murder suspects who have told just under a dozen different stories, failed numerous polygraphs, and have barely done anything to search for their child.

I have seen a couple people here come up with excuses for J and V that they haven't even tried using for themselves. I don't understand the logic nor do I understand the motivation.

 

[The Apparition]

Thanks I'd been wondering whether they have mute buttons. In the pause after the lady says "I may ...." I hear background noise still there, so I assume she has not muted by any method, but has actually stopped speaking. What was the full sentence going to be? "John, I made the call" does not fit the context. "John, I may need search and rescue" fits the context ("water") perfectly. All MOO

I listened again for the purposes of having an intelligent conversation. I believe she is mic grabbing as touched upon in my earlier post. You hear her clearly speaking off call "John" than you hear degraded sound (reps should never speak off call, caller is king) I can see it all in my mind; small call center <modsnip> rep on a hot call, calls out to her supervisor, supervisor making throat slash or silent finger gesture, rep obstructs/grabs mic, rep also dealing with hot call so has to play both sides of fence, rep is getting advice while trying to make caller feel "special".

Another side show IMHO. I'm not sure what the 911 operator was doing but I'm positive it has nothing to do with Deorr being missing. Operator seems moderately competent, not great with an Aspect phone but this was probably the biggest call she has handled in half a year.

 

[misty48]

Exactly, So, back to Misty, what's the explanation, or.... does she have some incriminating evidence that she's withholding and needs to bring forth. <modsnip>

No, Neesaki, I have no more evidence than anyone else on this board - probably less, bearing in mind where I live.
<modsnip>
LE have said very little about the evidence they hold. Klein Investigations have no more jurisdiction in this case than any of the posters on this board & therefore their opinions & analysis of any "evidence" they have gathered holds no more value than yours or mine,
Had RW been a fit & able person, I wonder what the general consensus of opinion would have been?

 

[byo]

Is there another cattle guard one & a half miles from the campsite? I believed VDK allegedly made his phone call by the one 400m from the camp.

I added the other cattleguard (400m from camp) to the Case Map. Thanks, Misty!

Thanks byo. One thing missing from that map is the actual campsite. This picture will help find it. Campfire circled.

Could you post your picture, again?

I'm getting "Invalid Attachment".

 

[CoverMeCagney]

No, Neesaki, I have no more evidence than anyone else on this board - probably less, bearing in mind where I live.
<modsnip>
LE have said very little about the evidence they hold. Klein Investigations have no more jurisdiction in this case than any of the posters on this board & therefore their opinions & analysis of any "evidence" they have gathered holds no more value than yours or mine,
Had RW been a fit & able person, I wonder what the general consensus of opinion would have been?

Except Klein would be a "verified insider" if he joined this forum and therefore his posts may hold more weight than others (in my opinion). At least he's actually met the people we're discussing, unlike anyone else here.

 

[zencompass]

Another fallacy? Or even outright deception? Who knows. Nothing they say at this point can be believed. JMO

Hi Neesaki,

Thanks for your insightful (as usual !) post.

When I typed that post about the cowboy boots I had forgotten one important rule - which is "consider the source".

I had been looking at the missing person's notice wherein the boots were mentioned. I should have realized where all of the information for that mpr came
from! The parents! Consider the source. I had forgotten to do this!

Trident kindly (as is always the case with Trident !) reminded me that the boots had been found at the apartment.

Oh and along with the camo jacket that the parents told police little De'Orr was wearing was also located at the parents' apartment.

I have a question for you wonderful folks. Can the parents not be charged with at least interfering with an investigation because all of their lies?
As Neesaki pointed out - this is outright deception. Lies told to law enforcement who are officers of the Court. Could no charges be
laid because of all of their lies and deception?

 

[zencompass]

Here is an Idaho Statute concerning this:

https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title18/T18CH54SECT18-5413.htm

Penalties:
http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/archive/documents/FalseReporting.pdf

 

[zencompass]

This article is from a law firm which mentions the penalty of providing false information to an officer can result in a $1000.00 fine
or up to six months in county jail.

https://martenslawoffice.com/false-information-officers

 

[zencompass]

In my view, the parents committed not just out and out perjury (providing false facts to law enforcement) but fraud. The jacket was found at the apartment
along with other items which they said were at the campsite.

I've emailed the office of the Attorney General for Idaho asking all of my questions pertaining to the false information given in this case by the parents. As I do not live in Idaho I don't expect an answer but
boy it felt good hitting the "send" button.

 

[zencompass]

The Statute of Limitations for charging a person who knowingly but did not report neglect or abuse of a child won't run out for another 3 1/2 years.

I do believe that more pressure needs to be applied to everyone involved in this case in order to get to the truth.

This is the very least that little DeOrr deserves. He deserves the truth to come out. Rest in Peace beautiful DeOrr.

 

[neesaki]

Hi Neesaki,

Thanks for your insightful (as usual !) post.

When I typed that post about the cowboy boots I had forgotten one important rule - which is "consider the source".

I had been looking at the missing person's notice wherein the boots were mentioned. I should have realized where all of the information for that mpr came
from! The parents! Consider the source. I had forgotten to do this!

Trident kindly (as is always the case with Trident !) reminded me that the boots had been found at the apartment.

Oh and along with the camo jacket that the parents told police little De'Orr was wearing was also located at the parents' apartment.

I have a question for you wonderful folks. Can the parents not be charged with at least interfering with an investigation because all of their lies?
As Neesaki pointed out - this is outright deception. Lies told to law enforcement who are officers of the Court. Could no charges be
laid because of all of their lies and deception?

I read this about the boots last night and had to sleep on it, but I don't remember that they found the boots, just a camo jacket and matchbox cars well hidden, inside a bag then inside of a sofa IIRC.... Guess they hid them so well they forgot them. But if they did find the boots could someone direct me to a link for this ? TIA
Also, there was this, something else that had slipped my memory. I would seriously pay to know the details of what those purchases were and by whom.
http://kboi2.com/news/local/investigators-find-missing-jacket-toys-at-deorr-kunzs-old-apartment

Klein says it found a credit card that was used by a family friend with "seemingly purchases of items unknown to investigators in testimony."

ETA: Here's Klein's full report. It's a good refresher, at least for my addled brain. There's nothing mentioned about the boots, but does specify

Four matchbox cars described previously by the parents as &#8220;missing and they did not know where they were.&#8221;

Point being, they actually gave specific descriptions of the cars that were supposed to be with Deorr when he was missing.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/private-investigator-issues-lengthy-report-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[KatieLiz]

In my view, the parents committed not just out and out perjury (providing false facts to law enforcement) but fraud. The jacket was found at the apartment
along with other items which they said were at the campsite.

I've emailed the office of the Attorney General for Idaho asking all of my questions pertaining to the false information given in this case by the parents. As I do not live in Idaho I don't expect an answer but
boy it felt good hitting the "send" button.

I'm totally on your side so I say this respectfully. I don't think the boots were found in the apartment. A camouflage jacket and the cars were, yes. But I believe Klein later answered someone and said it doesn't appear to be the same jacket. But I do believe the cars and credit card are accurate.

But the boots for sure were not found. That would be a MAJOR development.

 

[KatieLiz]

No, Neesaki, I have no more evidence than anyone else on this board - probably less, bearing in mind where I live.
<modsnip>
LE have said very little about the evidence they hold. Klein Investigations have no more jurisdiction in this case than any of the posters on this board & therefore their opinions & analysis of any "evidence" they have gathered holds no more value than yours or mine,
Had RW been a fit & able person, I wonder what the general consensus of opinion would have been?

Klein may not be LE but he is privy to the evidence and has interviewed the suspects. He is in agreement with LE and the FBI. Even if you choose to ignore Kleins existence all together, how do you explain the stance of LE and the FBI.

Can I just ask, what makes you believe 4 people who are showing no grief and change their stories repeatedly? I genuinely want to know what makes someone believe these stories over LE. Klein and LE haven't changed.my.mind in this case, Jessica and Vernal made it impossible for me to trust and believe their stories anymore.

Also-' RW actually does appear as if he were an able person. From all accounts, it appears like his family is sheltering him.

But regardless of that- all I needed to know about RW was his statement about what's done is done, and asking about a funeral.

I don't understand how you can ignore statements like this?

LE didn't have it in for J and V and just suddenly decide to frame them.one day. LE was on the side of the parents and investigated their child as lost or abducted. The EVIDENCE led them back to mom and dad.

This is why we need laws and a legal system in the world.