ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #30

[Sillybilly]

Lemhi County sheriff: DeOrr's case 'has to be a homicide'
Dean Johnson, KTVB July 07, 2016

BOISE - It' has been nearly a year now since 3-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. went missing while on a camping trip with his family near Leadore, Idaho. It's a story that's garnered national attention, especially with last week's People Magazine article in which the toddler's parents outline what happened that day, and what they've done since.

On Thursday, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB he thinks the parents are hiding something.

Media Thread and Maps

A list of case player's names can be found here.

Thread #27
Thread #28http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...imber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-28/page35
Thread #29

 

[koios]

From previous thread

Remember, We have been instructed not to discuss THAT fur creature. Good idea to respect that IMO.

While I appreciate efforts to analyze 911 calls we can only go off of what we have been given and we dont even have enough information on that because some of it is not released. Our ability as lay folks on a forum does not give us authority to ensure anything for LE, FBI or even PI hired by the family.

We cannot be "constructive" working on half a deck because thats is all that is allowed due to the fact thats it is an active investigation. We can only review facts as given and those are slim to none. Thats why folks keep suggesting that we stick with what we have been given as slight as it is. JMO

One 911 recording has been released, the whole 4 minutes 37 seconds, (excluding only address and phone number), any websleuth can listen to it, also information about crosstalk in telecomms equipment is available on the internet,
I haven't reached a definite conclusion yet about whether they are standing next to each other or whether it's electronic crosstalk,
And a link to the ban on discussing cougars would be useful thanks,

 

[TxJan1971]

From previous thread

One 911 recording has been released, the whole 4 minutes 37 seconds, (excluding only address and phone number), any websleuth can listen to it, also information about crosstalk in telecomms equipment is available on the internet,
I haven't reached a definite conclusion yet about whether they are standing next to each other or whether it's electronic crosstalk,
And a link to the ban on discussing cougars would be useful thanks,

BBM
Last Thread, Post #375

 

[koios]

BBM
Last Thread, Post #375

Thanks, I can't find any restrictions in post 375 of thread 29 or 28, maybe the post has moved?

 

[ModernAudrey]

Thanks, I can't find any restrictions in post 375 of thread 29 or 28, maybe the post has moved?

I have it as post 975.

 

[TxJan1971]

I have it as post 975.

sorry...it is post 975 as you clarified and was a typo on my part

 

[koios]

I have it as post 975.

Thanks 975 it is, I won't mention again.

 

[misty48]

From previous thread

One 911 recording has been released, the whole 4 minutes 37 seconds, (excluding only address and phone number), any websleuth can listen to it, also information about crosstalk in telecomms equipment is available on the internet,
I haven't reached a definite conclusion yet about whether they are standing next to each other or whether it's electronic crosstalk,
And a link to the ban on discussing cougars would be useful thanks,

Are you of the opinion that the 911 call was dealt with on an E 9-1-1 system or the latest NG - 911? I only ask because the newest technology is supposed to identify the GPS co-ordinates of the caller (rather than the caller's registered home details) & during J's call the precise location details seemed to be an issue.
I have also read that Idaho Public Safety Answering Points utilise equipment from a range of manufacturers which makes it difficult to address any issue of electronic crosstalk during recording.

 

[koios]

In the list of hits by the dog Chance.
Hit #3 is "139 Feet East of the Cattle Guard in the camp ground – in a loose ground area"
The report says "Excavation was undertaken by LE and KIC – this area needs to be further exhumed and was turned over to Law Enforcement for further investigation by their team"
I wonder whether an explanation for this hit has been found, or whether it remains unexplained.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/private-investigator-issues-lengthy-report-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[koios]

Are you of the opinion that the 911 call was dealt with on an E 9-1-1 system or the latest NG - 911? I only ask because the newest technology is supposed to identify the GPS co-ordinates of the caller (rather than the caller's registered home details) & during J's call the precise location details seemed to be an issue.
I have also read that Idaho Public Safety Answering Points utilise equipment from a range of manufacturers which makes it difficult to address any issue of electronic crosstalk during recording.

The dispatch center which handled the 911 calls is in Salmon. All new $275000 "state of the art" equipment was installed early 2104. I don't know if it is able to grab gps location from gps-fitted mobiles. Interesting question.
http://salmonidaho.com/content/grant-awarded-lemhi-county-update-911-system
http://psc.apcointl.org/2013/04/23/lemhi-idaho-gets-new-dispatch-system/

 

[misty48]

The dispatch center which handled the 911 calls is in Salmon. All new $275000 "state of the art" equipment was installed early 2104. I don't know if it is able to grab gps location from gps-fitted mobiles. Interesting question.
http://salmonidaho.com/content/grant-awarded-lemhi-county-update-911-system
http://psc.apcointl.org/2013/04/23/lemhi-idaho-gets-new-dispatch-system/

Here's a report for you to peruse. Maybe you'll glean a little more useful information from it than I can.
https://ioem.idaho.gov/Pages/ECC/Docs/State 911 Plan.pdf

 

[koios]

https://ioem.idaho.gov/Pages/ECC/Docs/State 911 Plan.pdf
I think Lemhi County dispatch center new equipment early 2014 would be Enhanced 911 capable.
But in the recording of J's 911 the operator is asking directions.
If her phone didn't have GPS, that would explain it?

 

[misty48]

https://ioem.idaho.gov/Pages/ECC/Docs/State 911 Plan.pdf
I think Lemhi County dispatch center new equipment early 2014 would be Enhanced 911 capable.
But in the recording of J's 911 the operator is asking directions.
If her phone didn't have GPS, that would explain it?

A link from way back in 2008 about cell phone GPS & emergency calls
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33637/how-does-gps-in-a-mobile-phone-work-exactly.

Perhaps the operator didn't quite know the workings of the equipment she was using?

A video here giving some idea about how the latest recording system works.
http://www.vpi-corp.com/911-radio-recording-logging.asp

 

[koios]

A link from way back in 2008 about cell phone GPS & emergency calls
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33637/how-does-gps-in-a-mobile-phone-work-exactly.

Perhaps the operator didn't quite know the workings of the equipment she was using?

A video here giving some idea about how the latest recording system works.
http://www.vpi-corp.com/911-radio-recording-logging.asp

.
Thanks for the links. Were V and J phones both with same network?
Sometimes during a mobile call when reception is poor I have heard other conversations in the background noise. Anyone else?

 

[skinnycat]

A link from way back in 2008 about cell phone GPS & emergency calls
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33637/how-does-gps-in-a-mobile-phone-work-exactly.

Perhaps the operator didn't quite know the workings of the equipment she was using?

A video here giving some idea about how the latest recording system works.
http://www.vpi-corp.com/911-radio-recording-logging.asp

I doubt that, here where I live we are trained for such jobs, in fact there are schooling courses that teach 911 dispatch. It is a higher paid job than just the clerk at the store, you just don't walk in off the street and get a job such as a 911 dispatcher, without having training.

I know that every state is different, maybe some that live in Idaho can answer on whether or not the 911 dispatch are just joes off the street that are unsure of the equipment or they are schooled and trained on how to handle an emergency 911 call,

 

[koios]

In the full 911 recording I now realize that "John...I ma(de the call)" is at 0:43 which is before V call began (V call reportedly began about 2 mins into J call).
In the background after "I ma(de the call)" is a different voice, and there is only one word of it which is clear enough to understand, the word "yes" at 0:49.
Is that sufficient to accurately identify the speaker with a high degree of accuracy?
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInves...864945696095/1041693925913191/?type=2&theater

 

[koios]

In the current theories of LE and PI investigations, as far as they have been released, what is the most likely time, and place, that something critical happened to the child?

 

[Onebest]

I doubt that, here where I live we are trained for such jobs, in fact there are schooling courses that teach 911 dispatch. It is a higher paid job than just the clerk at the store, you just don't walk in off the street and get a job such as a 911 dispatcher, without having training.

I know that every state is different, maybe some that live in Idaho can answer on whether or not the 911 dispatch are just joes off the street that are unsure of the equipment or they are schooled and trained on how to handle an emergency 911 call,

Not in Idaho but easy to find POST (Police Officers Service Training) standards. Idaho peace officers training includes 911 Dispatchers as well as on going inservice training to meet standards.

https://www.post.idaho.gov/certifications/Certifications.html#Dispatch

Dispatch: Communication Specialist Certifications
Communication Specialist Certifications (IDAPA 11.11.01)

Level I, II, III, Advanced (Sections 196 thru 202)
Supervisor, Master, Management Certification (General Provisions Sections 106.01.a-d AND 117 thru 119)
Please click here to see the Administrative Rules for Communication Officers, then reference the section numbers listed above that correspond to the certification level for which you need information. After reading these rules, contact Lorraine with any further questions.

Dispatch Academies
https://www.post.idaho.gov/DispAcad/Dispatch.html

 

[Hatfield]

In the current theories of LE and PI investigations, as far as they have been released, what is the most likely time, and place, that something critical happened to the child?

Thanks for getting a newer set of eyes on the case as it does help sometimes to see things from a new perspective.
Its obvious you are very thorough when looking at things so thanks for trying to research things.

This is good question but a tough one because it has never been very clear from the very start when and if the child was even at the campground, let alone when something happened to him.

JMO
Numerous times we have tried to pin down when the child was last seen and proven to have been seen by someone and we could not even establish that with any sort of certainty.

The various alleged sightings at the stores were just a mess and IMO I cannot take any alleged witness sightings as being any sort of proof the child was even there at the campground. It was so wishy washy and confusing.
The main reason is because it would be easy for someone to prop up either a dead child or a fake blankets to look like child in a car seat and make it look like the child was in the vehicle if they had stopped for gas.

For the alleged sightings inside of the gas store, well those were just so wishy washy and its possible he was there at some point but whether it was Thursday or Friday it is anyones guess. Let alone trying to develop a time.

My conclusion IMO is I cannot guarantee he was ever alive at the campground. Some others believe he was there.

As far as when we think something may have happened to the child, it is my opinion it either happened before they left to go camping or something happened on the trip up there. There was allegedly trailer trouble on the way up there according to external information I think from the PI and if I had to guess I would think during that trailer trouble episode I could see some sort of accident may have happened to the boy where it may have killed him. For example maybe they had jacked up the vehicle or trailer and the boy may have gotten in the way and crushed or something like that.

Sorry I have no link about the alleged trailer trouble as I cannot remember where I remember reading about that. I seem to recall it may have been some PI related discussions. We can treat that with a grain of salt.

All just guesses.

 

[Hatfield]

Are you of the opinion that the 911 call was dealt with on an E 9-1-1 system or the latest NG - 911? I only ask because the newest technology is supposed to identify the GPS co-ordinates of the caller (rather than the caller's registered home details) & during J's call the precise location details seemed to be an issue.
I have also read that Idaho Public Safety Answering Points utilise equipment from a range of manufacturers which makes it difficult to address any issue of electronic crosstalk during recording.

Re BBM

This is a great thought. Couldnt LE pin down if he was close to her or not when they were both talking to 911 at the same time? Maybe LE has. If not, they should try to do this.