ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #7

[rkf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc&feature=youtu.be

The parents aren't speaking out to MSM because some people on SM said they shouldn't have dressed DeOrr in camo? The PI never says he advises them to speak to MSM to get his name/face out there. Just that they should cooperate with LE and have hope. That is some seriously bad advice for a family whose child has been kidnapped and could be anywhere in the country right now. Also, OT, if East Idaho News wants the national media to use their clips, they need to ask better questions and make sure the camera people are not in their shots. This whole case is turning into incompetent amateur hour and it's very frustrating. The PI is talking out of both sides of his mouth. He should know the requirements for issuing an Amber Alert, and there hasn't been an instance where DeOrr's disappearance met the criteria yet. I think LE knows what happened, at least generally speaking, and they are waiting for someone to break. JMO

<modsnip>

 

[katydid23]

RE: big cowboy boots:

When my girl was 3, she got hand-me-down pink cowboy boots from her 6 yr old cousin. She LOVED them but they were too big. I kept putting them away in closets and boxes, so she could grow into them. She would find them sometimes and insist upon wearing them. There is no way she could have walked for miles in rough terrain in them though. It was very frustrating for her to walk any distance because they slipped off and she had to sit down and fix them.

I do not believe he could have walked to the reservoir without losing them. And I think they would have been found in the water because they would have filled up with water and fallen off his feet if he somehow managed to make it to the lake himself. JMO

If a cougar nabbed him, I think he would have lost his boots. :cry: If he went on a long meandering hike in the wilderness, one or both of his boots would have been found, imo.

 

[Jules71]

RE: big cowboy boots:

When my girl was 3, she got hand-me-down pink cowboy boots from her 6 yr old cousin. She LOVED them but they were too big. I kept putting them away in closets and boxes, so she could grow into them. She would find them sometimes and insist upon wearing them. There is no way she could have walked for miles in rough terrain in them though. It was very frustrating for her to walk any distance because they slipped off and she had to sit down and fix them.

I do not believe he could have walked to the reservoir without losing them. And I think they would have been found in the water because they would have filled up with water and fallen off his feet if he somehow managed to make it to the lake himself. JMO

If a cougar nabbed him, I think he would have lost his boots. :cry: If he went on a long meandering hike in the wilderness, one or both of his boots would have been found, imo.

So what does that leave? An abductor who was very concerned that his boots not fall off? That's weird to me. An abductor swooping in from behind the trees and grabbing him while holding his boots in place so they didn't come off.

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[rkf]

RE: big cowboy boots:

When my girl was 3, she got hand-me-down pink cowboy boots from her 6 yr old cousin. She LOVED them but they were too big. I kept putting them away in closets and boxes, so she could grow into them. She would find them sometimes and insist upon wearing them. There is no way she could have walked for miles in rough terrain in them though. It was very frustrating for her to walk any distance because they slipped off and she had to sit down and fix them.

I do not believe he could have walked to the reservoir without losing them. And I think they would have been found in the water because they would have filled up with water and fallen off his feet if he somehow managed to make it to the lake himself. JMO

If a cougar nabbed him, I think he would have lost his boots. :cry: If he went on a long meandering hike in the wilderness, one or both of his boots would have been found, imo.

ITA. And if an opportunistic kidnapper grabbed him, one of them probably would have fallen off in flight. I'm not sure how much we can rely on the PI's description of how big the boots are, but he's the only one who has given any information on them. So I guess we're stuck with what he says the parents told him. If LE isn't sharing the results of their investigation, how does he know if they cleared the parents, ggp, IR and the RSOs? <modsnip> But in his interview he says he cleared them himself. Which is it?

 

[katydid23]

So what does that leave? An abductor who was very concerned that his boots not fall off? That's weird to me. An abductor swooping in from behind the trees and grabbing him while holding his boots in place so they didn't come off.

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Maybe the abductor, who may or may not be a stranger, throws the boots into his backpack? Or maybe something bad happened and whomever finds the boy disposes of him, being careful not to lose his boots in the process?

 

[starfire]

rkf -- I agree that East Idaho News needs to seriously work on their camera skills. The interview with the PI was quite bad -- kept showing the camera person, a huge amount of ugly green couch, plus way too much of the back of the PI's head. lol

 

[Jules71]

Maybe the abductor, who may or may not be a stranger, throws the boots into his backpack? Or maybe something bad happened and whomever finds the boy disposes of him, being careful not to lose his boots in the process?

An unknown abductor, I would think, would have to cover his mouth with one hand and use the other hand/arm around his waist to carry him. So would he take his boots off first and put them in his backpack? And while he's doing that it would be hard to keep his mouth covered and Deorr would cry out I think.

If someone was trying to dispose of him after something horrific happened, then I think they would be certain to dispose of the boots as well.

If he was abducted, IMO it was by someone he knew. Someone who would have been able to carry him or hold his hand, who little Deorr would have gone with, and not have to cover his mouth. Someone who would be able to hold his boots on.

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[rkf]

I mis-spoke.. here is what was said:
SHERIFF REPORTS TO COMMISSIONERS 7-13-15 LMS

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told the Lemhi County Commissioners Monday, July 13, that based on the intense and extensive search conducted near Leadore for two year old Deorr Kunz Jr., it doesn&#8217;t make sense that the boy was not found.

Bowerman said the trained search dogs found nothing and kept coming back to the camp. Helicopters were used day and night to fly the area and fly over Stone Reservoir which is shallow enough to see to the bottom. He said divers explored the lake while approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek. The possibility of abduction by bear, wolf or mountain lion is not being ruled out although no trace of the boy or his apparel, which included oversized cowboy boots, was found.

The small boy disappeared Friday, July 10, from the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir. Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.

July 31, 2015: Commissioner Chairman Rick Snyder described the area where the family was camped as being at the lake&#8217;s outlet which is very steep with very fast moving water flowing through brush and trees and limbs, all of which were pulled apart by searchers. Bowerman said people in wet suits were in the creek searching every hole.

The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.

http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman says he's convinced an Idaho toddler missing for three weeks was not abducted.
Sheriff Lynn Bowerman updated KBOI 2News on the case of missing Idaho boy DeOrr Kunz, who was last seen July 10. Although he's convinced the 2-year-old was not abducted, Bowerman said he's unable to rule out the possibility.
Bowerman said everyone at the campsite is considered a person of interest in the case, however, none of them are suspects -- this includes the parents, the child's great-grandfather and family friend Isaac Reinwand.
http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html

Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

The child's parents, DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, told authorities they left their home in Idaho Falls on July 10 for a weekend camping trip that included their son, as well as the mother's grandfather and his friend.
They told investigators they thought their son had stayed at the camp when they left to hike. They said they realized he was missing when they came back and learned his great-grandfather did not know the boy's whereabouts, Bowerman said.

"There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," the sheriff said.

Bowerman said search dogs had shown an interest earlier this month in a reservoir, but that it was later learned a local woman scattered the ashes of a cremated loved one into the water, misleading the cadaver dogs.

There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area, he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

Grandmother Trina Bates Clegg said Sunday night in a phone interview with EastIdahoNews.com. &#8220;Right now they have ruled out that he has slipped and fallen in to a creek. The creek has been cleared&#8230;and (the sheriff) is 100 percent confident that (Deorr) wasn&#8217;t in the creek.&#8221;
http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmother-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

Meanwhile, dive teams scoured nearby Timber Creek and Stone reservoir but did not recover anything.

The boy's worried father said he still wonders if that is where his little boy is.

Kunz Sr said: '[The sheriff] assured me there is 100 percent chance he is not anywhere in or near that water.'

'They have torn that creek upside down and inside out. Divers have gone in with wetsuits along with the helicopter.'
http://www.bostonnewstime.com/regional/111692-missing-deorr-kunz-jr-s-parents-asks-for-leads-to-find-their-boy.html


"We've literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue," Bowerman told FoxNews.com. So what physical evidence did they turn over to the FBI?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

BBM
What other possibilities exist? Where is little DeOrr?

 

[ILOKAL]

An unknown abductor, I would think, would have to cover his mouth with one hand and use the other hand/arm around his waist to carry him. So would he take his boots off first and put them in his backpack? And while he's doing that it would be hard to keep his mouth covered and Deorr would cry out I think.

If someone was trying to dispose of him after something horrific happened, then I think they would be certain to dispose of the boots as well.

If he was abducted, IMO it was by someone he knew. Someone who would have been able to carry him or hold his hand, who little Deorr would have gone with, and not have to cover his mouth. Someone who would be able to hold his boots on.

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Maybe the "abductor" chloroformed him? At least that would make sense if it was a planned abduction.

 

[katydid23]

But a 2 yr old might be lured very easily by a 'kind' stranger. You can offer your hand to a 2 yr old and if they are in a good mood they will take your hand and follow you happily. My daughter and I found a 'wandering' 2 yr old outside the mall and he took my daughters hand happily and we walked him to the security office. No crying or screaming.

 

[Niner]

It is confirmed that they arrived on Thursday, I dont think they ever claimed they arrived on Friday, I think that was misreporting and speculation. It was was stated very early on by someone confirmed close to the situation that they arrived on Thursday, we just could not talk about it.

I agree with you that it was misreporting/speculation about them arriving on Friday in the first place. It is now confirmed they arrived on Thursday. I believe the two different campsites was just speculation.

regarding the two bolds above ^^

Can you please link "where" it has been confirmed that they arrived on Thursday night? I must have missed that. Who said it??

:tyou: in advance! I'd like to update the timeline IF this is true!

 

[ILOKAL]

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman says he's convinced an Idaho toddler missing for three weeks was not abducted.
Sheriff Lynn Bowerman updated KBOI 2News on the case of missing Idaho boy DeOrr Kunz, who was last seen July 10. Although he's convinced the 2-year-old was not abducted, Bowerman said he's unable to rule out the possibility.
Bowerman said everyone at the campsite is considered a person of interest in the case, however, none of them are suspects -- this includes the parents, the child's great-grandfather and family friend Isaac Reinwand.
http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html

Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

The child's parents, DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, told authorities they left their home in Idaho Falls on July 10 for a weekend camping trip that included their son, as well as the mother's grandfather and his friend.
They told investigators they thought their son had stayed at the camp when they left to hike. They said they realized he was missing when they came back and learned his great-grandfather did not know the boy's whereabouts, Bowerman said.

"There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," the sheriff said.

Bowerman said search dogs had shown an interest earlier this month in a reservoir, but that it was later learned a local woman scattered the ashes of a cremated loved one into the water, misleading the cadaver dogs.

There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area, he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

Grandmother Trina Bates Clegg said Sunday night in a phone interview with EastIdahoNews.com. &#8220;Right now they have ruled out that he has slipped and fallen in to a creek. The creek has been cleared&#8230;and (the sheriff) is 100 percent confident that (Deorr) wasn&#8217;t in the creek.&#8221;
http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmother-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

Meanwhile, dive teams scoured nearby Timber Creek and Stone reservoir but did not recover anything.

The boy's worried father said he still wonders if that is where his little boy is.

Kunz Sr said: '[The sheriff] assured me there is 100 percent chance he is not anywhere in or near that water.'

'They have torn that creek upside down and inside out. Divers have gone in with wetsuits along with the helicopter.'
http://www.bostonnewstime.com/regional/111692-missing-deorr-kunz-jr-s-parents-asks-for-leads-to-find-their-boy.html


"We've literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue," Bowerman told FoxNews.com. So what physical evidence did they turn over to the FBI?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

BBM
What other possibilities exist? Where is little DeOrr?

Thanks for posting that so we can all see they did indeed leave their home on Friday, July 10th and arrived on July 10th, the same day little Deorr vanished!

 

[bessie]

July 31, 2015

[...]
Sheriff Lynn Bowerman updated KBOI 2News on the case of missing Idaho boy DeOrr Kunz, who was last seen July 10.
Although he's convinced the 2-year-old was not abducted, Bowerman said he's unable to rule out the possibility.

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html

 

[dlc]

Exactly. The same points I have been making.

There is no reason that the simple facts of what happened should be a mystery during that interview.

The person doing the interview was really bad because he allowed the interview to be controlled instead of bringing it back to the basic questions of what happened.

How many people arrived at campsite?
What day + time did they all arrive?
Who drove with who and how many cars?
Were tents setup?
Who slept with who if tents?
When 911 call was placed, where was every single person and what were they doing?
When did each person leave and in what car?

(modsnip)

If I was in charge of looking for the boy, it would not be on that mountain. I do think he is within a 10 mile radius of that store because I do believe the clerk saw the boy at 6 PM. Just not sure if she saw him Thursday or Friday.

I think most reporters are not skilled or trained at investigative journalism. .that's the problem here.

Very respectfully, the type of questions outlined by Hatfield are fundamentals of journalism: who, what, where, when, why; I don't think that anyone is looking for a Woodward and Bernstein effort, just basic, competent reporting. It has been oddly absent in this case -- poor baby DeOrr.

JMO, etc.

 

[Jules71]

Thanks for posting that so we can all see they did indeed leave their home on Friday, July 10th and arrived on July 10th, the same day little Deorr vanished!

They may have told authorities they left their house in Idaho Falls on July 10th, but now their PI is discussing the trip they made to the store "the morning after they arrived" which matches up with what has been posted all over this thread.

The link to the PI interview has already been posted.

When I researched this to death before, I could not find one interview or one quote from Jessica or Deorr saying which day they arrived. I choose to believe the statement by the PI backs up the rumors of the 9:30 pm Thursday arrival time (which I have read numerous times here). MOO

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[rkf]

RE: big cowboy boots:

When my girl was 3, she got hand-me-down pink cowboy boots from her 6 yr old cousin. She LOVED them but they were too big. I kept putting them away in closets and boxes, so she could grow into them. She would find them sometimes and insist upon wearing them. There is no way she could have walked for miles in rough terrain in them though. It was very frustrating for her to walk any distance because they slipped off and she had to sit down and fix them.

I do not believe he could have walked to the reservoir without losing them. And I think they would have been found in the water because they would have filled up with water and fallen off his feet if he somehow managed to make it to the lake himself. JMO

If a cougar nabbed him, I think he would have lost his boots. :cry: If he went on a long meandering hike in the wilderness, one or both of his boots would have been found, imo.

It occurred to me that maybe the parents thought it was a good thing he couldn't walk well in the boots - kind of like a "hobbling device" so he couldn't wander far. (I don't mean this in a bad way. I was one of those parents who had the child leash - attached to a stuffed animal backpack/harness - for when we went to busy places like airports and malls. My first child wanted to walk all the time and he was fast, so it worked for both of us. I thought people who used those were terrible until I had my own child!)

 

[Jules71]

So Bowerman is convinced little Deorr was not abducted but at the same time he cannot rule it out. For many people, it is enough that he is convinced. He is an experienced professional and they have done a thorough search - he is convinced. That's good enough for me as well.

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html?mobile=y

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[wondering25]

RFK thank you.. Your summary was informative and certainly drove home the essence of this case, that little Deorr wasnt there.. at least in MY MIND. It is the only thing that makes sense given the other statements.. The child's parents, DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, told authorities they left their home in Idaho Falls on July 10

"There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," the sheriff said.

There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area, he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0Q52OP20150731

Grandmother Trina Bates Clegg said Sunday night in a phone interview with EastIdahoNews.com. &#8220;Right now they have ruled out that he has slipped and fallen in to a creek. The creek has been cleared&#8230;and (the sheriff) is 100 percent confident that (Deorr) wasn&#8217;t in the creek.&#8221;
http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmot...just-vanished/

Meanwhile, dive teams scoured nearby Timber Creek and Stone reservoir but did not recover anything.

The boy's worried father said he still wonders if that is where his little boy is.

Kunz Sr said: '[The sheriff] assured me there is 100 percent chance he is not anywhere in or near that water.'

'They have torn that creek upside down and inside out. Divers have gone in with wetsuits along with the helicopter.'
http://www.bostonnewstime.com/regional/111692-missing-deorr-kunz-jr-s-parents-asks-for-leads-to-find-their-boy.html


"We've literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue,

 

[rkf]

Thanks for posting that so we can all see they did indeed leave their home on Friday, July 10th and arrived on July 10th, the same day little Deorr vanished!

We can see that Reuters reported that the parents stated they left their home on July 10th. I had been looking for a MSM article that said when the parents arrived since I don't think it was explicitly stated in the parents' interview. If there's one thing I've learned on WS, it's that MSM is often unreliable. I've also learned that I don't ever want to leave my house again.

 

[kammiemc]

RFK thank you.. Your summary was informative and certainly drove home the essence of this case, that little Deorr wasnt there.. at least in MY MIND. It is the only thing that makes sense given the other statements.. The child's parents, DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, told authorities they left their home in Idaho Falls on July 10

"There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," the sheriff said.

There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area, he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0Q52OP20150731

Grandmother Trina Bates Clegg said Sunday night in a phone interview with EastIdahoNews.com. “Right now they have ruled out that he has slipped and fallen in to a creek. The creek has been cleared…and (the sheriff) is 100 percent confident that (Deorr) wasn’t in the creek.”
http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmot...just-vanished/

Meanwhile, dive teams scoured nearby Timber Creek and Stone reservoir but did not recover anything.

The boy's worried father said he still wonders if that is where his little boy is.

Kunz Sr said: '[The sheriff] assured me there is 100 percent chance he is not anywhere in or near that water.'

'They have torn that creek upside down and inside out. Divers have gone in with wetsuits along with the helicopter.'
http://www.bostonnewstime.com/regional/111692-missing-deorr-kunz-jr-s-parents-asks-for-leads-to-find-their-boy.html


"We've literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue,

I'm afraid I agree that it seems he was never there or only fleetingly. Beyond devastating.


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