GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #75

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sleuth_truths said:
Okay. We all heard the same evidence jurors heard (and jurors actually SAW evidence we didn't). So what on EARTH is taking so long? I'm absolutely puzzled (and, honestly, a tiny bit concerned)?
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I really thought they'd come back by lunch, so there's still some time before I stress out. But I am getting anxious!
 
sleuth_truths said:
Okay. We all heard the same evidence jurors heard (and jurors actually SAW evidence we didn't). So what on EARTH is taking so long? I'm absolutely puzzled (and, honestly, a tiny bit concerned)?
Click to expand...

honestly, I'd still be reading the texts, all of them. I have to think they are going over evidence because I mean WOW I'd need to snoop a little too if I had free access to it all.
 
I believe that the longer this goes the worse it gets for the prosecution, but... I juried on a case here in Canada a while back. Man killed a couple and their 5 year old grandson. Month long trial, lots of info, lots of horror. Takes a bit to get your feet under you. We deliberated 8 hours I think over 2 days, but of that 8 hours 7 1/2 was waiting for hardcopies of the judges instruction. Not sure what I'm trying to say here. There are variables. Who knows what's going on in that room, but it doesn't mean they're stuck already.
 
Love Never Fails said:
Zulema testimony when speaking to police. It’s on film.
Alex insisted on buying a tarp of some kind at Walmart after the wedding. Then insisted on giving her a massage. She thinks she was drugged from a drink as she couldn’t force herself to wake up. He spread out the tarp but then got up and watched tv the rest of the night. Some honeymoon huh?
Then they go home and Chad and Lori are in Hawaii and Alex told Zulema he thinks he’s their fall guy.
She goes to work and he’s dead.
Oh of course Chad gave him a blessing over the phone first.
He died the day after Tammy was exhumed.
In testimony in court, I think it was a text where Lori told Chad she feared Al would be the one to do something like turn on them or turn them in.
It’s all in the testimony.
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What was the motive for Alex to kill Zulema? I must have missed this testimony.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
I have no doubt either. When I think of how she was against such move, I always come back to "sex POWER and money". I always vision this guy as an arrogant gaslighting tyrant, and a loser at the same time.
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Tammy was the one with a real job keeping the lights on & food on the table. While Chad was flirting & telling women he was married to them in a former life.
Hawaii is not cheap. As soon as the Tammy money was gone, Chad would have to sleep with one eye open. 2 outta 4 past husbands of LVD are dead.
JMO
 
sleuth_truths said:
Okay. We all heard the same evidence jurors heard (and jurors actually SAW evidence we didn't). So what on EARTH is taking so long? I'm absolutely puzzled (and, honestly, a tiny bit concerned)?
Click to expand...
How long have they been deliberating? The jury in the Leticia Stauch trial deliberated for more than 7 hours, and it was also pretty obvious. I believe they are doing their due diligence, which takes some time.
 
Love Never Fails said:
Alex wasn’t a good killer. i think Lori shot Charles because Alex missed and she had to finish him off. two shots. Alex shot at BB and missed him. I think he was supposed to kill Zulema on their wedding night but chickened out. He shot at Tammy and missed. He dared not mess up with Tylee and JJ. They were tortured to Lori and Chads delight.
I think Lori killed JR with the help of Alex. She saw someone take his last breaths, as she told Audrey. That was Charles or joe or even more likely the kids. SHE is the serial killer.
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I have an even less popular opinion: Alex wasn't much of a killer at all. If JR was murdered, I could believe AC was involved because of the abuse alleged against the children. I think CV could've been short by Lori - but if by AC, it was because Lori was there orchestrating and instructing. I think Lori killed the children, telling Alex afterward that they died of "spiritual" causes so he'd help her hide the bodies. I think he was told to kill BB & TD (and possibly ZP) but purposely failed at his attempts. IMO, him describing himself as the "fall guys" means (a) he was questioning the belief system, and (2) he realized L&C had done things there were going to blame him for. All this is a newly-developed opinion of mine, based on trial testimony; I didn't think this way before hearing (reading) the evidence presented.
 
Ruby_PA said:
This is the first I'm hearing about Alex planning to kill Zulema. Is this just a theory or is there evidence of this?
Thanks!
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I believe it's in Zulema's police interview. As I recall, Alex was going to give her a massage and bought a dropcloth to put over the massage table, which she found odd. Then she either passed out or went to sleep. The theory is she was drugged by Alex and the drop cloth was purchased to catch her bodily fluids from her murder. But Alex didn't go through with it--maybe he decided he was tired of being Lori's hitman. IMO

www.eastidahonews.com

What Alex Cox revealed days before he died and the unusual massage he gave his wife - East Idaho News

The day after Alex Cox and Zulema Pastenes were married in Las Vegas, he offered to give her a massage. It was Saturday, Nov. 30, 2019 in the middle of the day. Cox, a massage therapist, had never given Pastenes a massage and said they needed to go to Walmart first to buy a large …
www.eastidahonews.com www.eastidahonews.com
 
ReadySet said:
What puzzles me is what happened to the insistence that the prosecution was incompetent and the defense was much better; that the Mormon church was in charge and conspiring with the Judge and prosecution to free Lori; etc. ??
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I don't think the LDS church ever intended to free LVD. To me it seems their only interest in the case has been to distance their organization and avoid having their 'deep' or historically disputed doctrines (blood atonement, polygamist Jesus, multiple mortal probations/"one eternal round," the goddess Heavenly Mother, Satan's physicality, the power of prayer circles) and their lack of 'discernment' in this matter put on display and under a microscope for the whole world to pick apart.

I do believe that they were influential in several ways:
- The decision NOT to have cameras in the courtroom (to make it less public)
- Church members who potentially would have testified except that the church encouraged them not to
- Downplaying the church's involvement in Preparing a People
- Intentionally steering witnesses away from discussing more 'mainstream' LDS doctrine (the necessity of eternal marriage, temple ordinances, end-of-days topics, etc) or CD & LVD's involvement in the church

IMO. MOO.
 
Alpha_Q said:
I believe that the longer this goes the worse it gets for the prosecution, but... I juried on a case here in Canada a while back. Man killed a couple and their 5 year old grandson. Month long trial, lots of info, lots of horror. Takes a bit to get your feet under you. We deliberated 8 hours I think over 2 days, but of that 8 hours 7 1/2 was waiting for hardcopies of the judges instruction. Not sure what I'm trying to say here. There are variables. Who knows what's going on in that room, but it doesn't mean they're stuck already.
Click to expand...
The murder trial of Douglas Garland? Horrible stuff.
 
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