Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #50

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If that were true, Lori would have had to know, as would LE with whom she spoke, at what time approximately they would uncover at least one of the bodies. She would have had to know precisely how long it would take for initial entry, establishing sites of interest, and early excavation of "Burial Site 1" to find the human remains which all happened before 11:00. MOO: She didn't know because LE and FBI didn't know.


This is possible. It is also possible that Chad attempted to call her, or asked Means to have her call.


I agree with this.


He left the house some time between the call 11:03 call (ended 11:06-ish Transcript of Lori Daybell's call to Chad Daybell on day of children's discovery) and being arrested 1.7 miles down the road outside of the roadblock toward Rexburg but still in Salem just before 11:30 (Chad Daybell arrested, booked into jail | East Idaho News).


It's a flawed theory he's trying to promote. See below.

LOL, fictional trash panda. I prefer miracle raccoon.


I agree. I think Prior was trying to prove CD didn't lie about the raccoon being buried on the property. I have no doubt a raccoon may still buried on the property because of a prior (no pun intended) claim that CD shot one out of a tree.

The defense argument implies the intent of the June 9-10 search was to find the children's bodies under the assumption that CD lied about the raccoon, and the argument attempts to exonerate CD by: if TR was buried there and a raccoon is also buried on the property then AC concealed the remains of TR on his own. His argument seemed to be that: as no raccoon was found, LE will say CD lied to cover his own involvement in the activities. So if CD didn't lie about shooting and burying the raccoon, it should still be in the ground, and LE didn't even look for it. It is an argument that there exists a witch hunt or CD was framed. The argument implies that someone, possibly AC, could have planted the remains of the children there to frame CD. Such argument negates the fact that if there is a raccoon still buried there it could be from the previous (July 2019) account where CD shot one from out of a tree. Whether said raccoon carcass still exists (from July 2019) and even if a second one exists to prove CD buried it on 9/9/2019, it doesn't matter.

That argument will fail. Human remains belonging to JJ and TR were buried on CD's property. TR was last seen on 9/8/2019. AC was on the property on 9/9/2019. The reason that the validity and location of any alleged raccoon carcass doesn't matter is that the day and time CD claimed to have buried it was the same day and time that the phone pings for the device belonging to AC was also on the property in the same vicinity for a substantial length of time (with ping resolution of appx. 4 meters). Prior will have a very hard time convincing a jury that two men just happened to be working in the yard burning limb debris and burying a raccoon in close proximity (if even greater than 4 meters apart or even 15 meters) of each other without the knowledge of what the other was doing. Have you seen the property? There is one tree by the pond area, and another 80 feet from the pet cemetery, the rest of the property was relatively free of vegetation that could obscure the activities of the two men.

Lets review the facts:
AC's device on the property for 2.5 hours ending at 11:39 a.m. Testimony from LE was that the pings were accurate to 4 meters (13 feet).
CD said he burned limb debris, shot a raccoon, and buried it the "pet cemetery" and completed the task by 11:53 a.m. such that 3 minutes later he needed a shower ostensibly because of the labor involved in the yard work.
The "pet cemetery" is noted by the location of a ceramic dog statue, placed in memory of a dog that is buried nearby.
Satellite imagery shows the 4' x 3' area of disturbed ground very near the location of the known "pet cemetery".
Testimony during the preliminary hearing was that the hole wherein the green bucket and remains was found was approximately 2 feet deep.

Such fanciful argument is an attempt to convince a jury that AC snuck TR's remains onsite, burned/dismembered her onsite, dug a 4' x 3' wide hole 2-3 feet deep or assisted CD in digging it, placed said remains into a 2' - 3' deep hole in the open area by the "pet cemetery", covered the remains with bricks, placed a dead dog and cat nearly over the remains, and filled in the hole all while CD didn't know AC was there while he himself was elsewhere on the property but near enough to still be considered within the area of the pet cemetery so he wasn't lying to his wife.

OR
If CD knew AC was there and assisting with the burning and digging, AC was quick enough to burn/dismember and bury TR's remains without CD knowing or consenting. Right. Maybe if while AC was assisting CD with the yard work, random miracle raccoon appears just in time for CD to get distracted, shoot it, and bury it elsewhere on the property so he's too far away to see what AC is doing. While CD is doing that, AC sneaks TR's remains into the fire and subsequently the ground.

Either way if the miracle raccoon exists, CD lied about burying the raccoon in the "pet cemetery" as it wasn't in the "pet cemetery". He lied about "I've had an interesting morning. I...I...I" when in fact it should have been "We've had...we" or "Alex and I've had..." and explain who Alex is...without acknowledging Lori to Tammy.

OR (even less likely)
AC planted his phone on CD's body before CD went about burning debris, shooting the miracle raccoon, burying it in the pet cemetery and texting TD at 11:53, while AC snuck in, burned and buried TR's remains and removed the raccoon and stole back the phone all without CD seeing, took it to Del Taco and then on to his own home.

There's no way AC was there without CD knowing/consenting. CD's admission of the "limbs" and raccoon in the pet cemetery and AC's phone pings are the perfect combination for at least conspiracy of felony concealment.

That doesn't even consider the issue of JJ in "Burial Site 1" on September 23rd. If CD wasn't involved, AC was at CD's for twenty minutes and was able to without any assistance from CD dig a four foot hole deep enough to bury a seven-year-old, cover with paneling and stones and bury the hole...in twenty minutes. Forget doing so without assistance. Forget doing so without consent. If that's what happened, AC is the fastest hole-digger I've ever heard of. He should have hired himself out as a digger in Sugar City, Home of the Diggers (Sugar Beet diggers that is). Salem is notoriously rocky soil. It's a high-sub water river valley with more rocks than fertile dirt. There's no one who can dig a hole that big and that deep in that pasture, bury a child and cover it all within 20 minutes–without some assistance.

Excellent post, thank you.

It also shouts out to me, whose dog/cat were they, and were they noted specifically ON TOP of the remains, or next to it. The detective/or Special Agent? noted that it was easily identified as a dog and a cat.

Also, this double speak reminds me of the Casey Anthony case where there was sooooo much confusion and so many "squirrels" (not to mention the one under her car) that never came into trial. That said, I don't recall the info that the previous racoon was shot out of a tree. Not doubting, just don't recall. Due to the fact that I have done family genealogy for over 40 years, (traveled to SLC archives at one point) and LDS is REALLY into family genealogy... it made me think of "someone being shot out of the family tree" iykwim.

Hmmmm.

That's why I'm wanting to revisit this info of "being shot out of the tree" that you mention - if anyone can help . TIA
 
Excellent post, thank you.

It also shouts out to me, whose dog/cat were they, and were they noted specifically ON TOP of the remains, or next to it. The detective/or Special Agent? noted that it was easily identified as a dog and a cat.

Also, this double speak reminds me of the Casey Anthony case where there was sooooo much confusion and so many "squirrels" (not to mention the one under her car) that never came into trial. That said, I don't recall the info that the previous racoon was shot out of a tree. Not doubting, just don't recall. Due to the fact that I have done family genealogy for over 40 years, (traveled to SLC archives at one point) and LDS is REALLY into family genealogy... it made me think of "someone being shot out of the family tree" iykwim.

Hmmmm.

That's why I'm wanting to revisit this info of "being shot out of the tree" that you mention - if anyone can help . TIA
If I remember correctly, Chad's son mentioned that a raccoon was shot out of a tree at a much earlier time. The pretend raccoon Chad shot was walking along the fence according to the text he sent Tammy. MOO.
 
What puzzles me is Tylees demeanor with the police after the CV homocide. She seemed to be supportering her moms version of the events and unphased by what had transpired. Im curious if something changed between then and sept, and what it was.
That wasn't support, that was shock and terror IMO. She had just witnessed first hand what happens to someone deemed a zombie by her "mother".
"Months earlier, in the spring, Lori had told Gibb that Tylee had become a “zombie,” meaning her spirit had left her body, and she had become “dark.”
“Gibb was on the phone with Lori and heard Lori call Tylee a zombie to which Tylee responded, ‘Not me, mom,'”
Documents detail horrific manner JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan were found in Chad Daybell's yard | East Idaho News
 
Excellent post, thank you.

It also shouts out to me, whose dog/cat were they, and were they noted specifically ON TOP of the remains, or next to it. The detective/or Special Agent? noted that it was easily identified as a dog and a cat.

Also, this double speak reminds me of the Casey Anthony case where there was sooooo much confusion and so many "squirrels" (not to mention the one under her car) that never came into trial. That said, I don't recall the info that the previous racoon was shot out of a tree. Not doubting, just don't recall. Due to the fact that I have done family genealogy for over 40 years, (traveled to SLC archives at one point) and LDS is REALLY into family genealogy... it made me think of "someone being shot out of the family tree" iykwim.

Hmmmm.

That's why I'm wanting to revisit this info of "being shot out of the tree" that you mention - if anyone can help . TIA
Part 21 of the probable cause affidavit

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-755/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf
 
As I was catching up on the last 15 pages, I started to wonder if Colby would be called at Lori's hearing. Then I remembered something about Colby texting Tylee and getting weird responses. So I went looking for that info, and found it on Annie Cushing's site.

'Tylee' was responding to Colby's texts all the way until late October, as well as VenMo'ing him money.

I hope Colby is called, as that info would make for compelling testimony. 'Someone' with Tylee's phone texting as Tylee up until nearly two months after her death, to convince someone who was very concerned about her welfare that she was still alive. I haven't read the statute, but to me it seems that "conspiracy to conceal a body" would include "masquerading as the dead person to convince others they were alive and well."

The other thing I came across that was like a slap in the face is that Tylee's birthday was September 24th. JJ was presumably buried on the 23rd. Seeing those dates next to each other is...something.

I don't have kids, but I have a niece and nephew who I love dearly, more than I ever expected to be capable of loving a child who isn't mine. The idea of a mother murdering two of her children, and burying the last one the day before the other's birthday boggles my mind. I know I keep saying it, but Lori is a monster. It just continues to shock me as I realize new depths of her depravity.

Interested to see what phone records show for the location of TR’s phone when the texts are sent to Colby after her disappearance. Can those locations tie back to LVD in any way?
 
How many days was Tylee in Idaho before she was killed?
At most, a whopping 10 days.
were they noted specifically ON TOP of the remains, or next to it.
I wondered this, too, as losing a dog and cat in nine months seemed like a lot to me. But if his kids had pets and used the pet cemetery, that would make more sense. It's easier to dig recently disturbed ground, and they would just stop digging when they hit rock.

But since the agent said they dug out a 10x10 area, and only mentioned the two at the end when Wood asked if they found anything else when they dug there, it's far more likely that they were just pets previously buried in the general vicinity of where Tylee eventually ended up. If they were on top, he would have mentioned them earlier in his testimony, when slowly going through what they found as each "layer" was dug up, scanned, photographed, etc., before they reached the human remains.

(I have thought way too much about those animal remains, clearly.)
 
That wasn't support, that was shock and terror IMO. She had just witnessed first hand what happens to someone deemed a zombie by her "mother".
"Months earlier, in the spring, Lori had told Gibb that Tylee had become a “zombie,” meaning her spirit had left her body, and she had become “dark.”
“Gibb was on the phone with Lori and heard Lori call Tylee a zombie to which Tylee responded, ‘Not me, mom,'”

Documents detail horrific manner JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan were found in Chad Daybell's yard | East Idaho News

Re BBM
That is horrific that she called her daughter that. It is sad to hear what the poor child must have had to live through. She was probably being used as a live-in babysitter for most of it.
 
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Can you please provide a link? This has been discussed quite a bit here and I'm not saying you're wrong. I just do not recall hearing that stated outside of the conditions if they were released.
I believe it was one of the last things the judge confirmed at the end of the hearing yesterday. I just read the post today so will look for it.
I missed part of that. Was any explanation given as to who was formally looking into that property?
I think it was for purchase by MG and DW but MOO.
 
For those that don't want to view bad stuff about recovery and analysis of burned folks ... please roll and scroll. This is graphic:



During the Caylee Anthony trial, we heard much testimony from Arpad Vass. So, I just did a google search as to how perhaps "melted" bodies leave signs. Decomp etc. These are some hits.

Roll and scroll for those that don't want to view. Some links are relevant perhaps to this case that aren't familiar with stuff from the Tennessee body farm in Tennessee many of us learned about during the Caylee Anthony case.




FBI Marks 20 Years of Training at the ‘Body Farm’ | Federal Bureau of Investigation

UT to Develop Protocol for Examining Burned Remains for Blunt-Force Trauma

These 6 'Body Farms' Help Forensic Anthropologists Learn To Solve Crimes

University of Tennessee Anthropological Research Facility - Wikipedia
 
For the current charges, how many consecutive years could they receive?
 
Would they be able to withhold the autopsy reports though when the defendants are not charged with killing the victims, just hiding them? Could this be why murder charges have not been brought forth yet? Cause of death has no bearing on the current charges so an autopsy would not be evidence in the case.
@FLmom777 No. Once someone has been charged both sides are obligated to shared new evidence with each other in a reasonable amount of time. The type or degree of charges are irrelevant. A attorneys professional behavior is governed by professional ethics laws and intentionally withholding ethics violates that law. the legal world is small and reputation is everything. if found out, it would definetly effect the persons professional reputation and depending on the egreisousness of the situation a lawyer could loose their license to practice. Thats not to say it doesnt happen, it does but most lawyers to thing its worth it. Ultimately the prosection has to share evidence with the defense so they dont gain anything from withholding it from them. Unfortuntely many forensic tests are notorious for taking a while to be processed. Labs are always backed up and now that Covid has reduced the number of cases being tried, im sure its now slower then before. They very well could have the result, but made the decison not to present any of their findings during prelim, or theirs a chances the remains were sent to the FBI labs because their more sophisticated (which again would cause further delays). I truly dont think the lack of murder charge should be considered as a bad sign. IMO their waiting to charges until they get all the data back. There s no rush to charge so Id rather the take the time to get it right
 
Excellent post, thank you.

It also shouts out to me, whose dog/cat were they, and were they noted specifically ON TOP of the remains, or next to it. The detective/or Special Agent? noted that it was easily identified as a dog and a cat.

Also, this double speak reminds me of the Casey Anthony case where there was sooooo much confusion and so many "squirrels" (not to mention the one under her car) that never came into trial. That said, I don't recall the info that the previous racoon was shot out of a tree. Not doubting, just don't recall. Due to the fact that I have done family genealogy for over 40 years, (traveled to SLC archives at one point) and LDS is REALLY into family genealogy... it made me think of "someone being shot out of the family tree" iykwim.

Hmmmm.

That's why I'm wanting to revisit this info of "being shot out of the tree" that you mention - if anyone can help . TIA

Whoa, my mind is totally going to where I don't want it to go with double speak.

Racoon shot "on the fence" (thinking they weren't going to protect their secret... the person / aka racoon was on the fence to turn on them)

Racoon "shot out of the tree" (thinking family tree which LDS is well known by myself to seal folks in family tree)

We each bring our own bias to cases, thanks for letting me share mine for consideration.
 
That is where I think many of us have been looking for some clarity. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know. I just know this has been debated for some time. I would imagine they are still innocent and proven guilty and have basic rights. By communicating from the jails, they're monitored. Should they both post bond, without those conditions, they'd be free to communicate with each other.
@pizzaman12 during pre trial motions loris lawyer submitted a request her bail be lowered, the judge agreed but stipulated if lori was released she could not have contact with Chad. which basically means if the court found out they had broken the judges order she would be sent straight back to jail for the remainder of her trial. defendents charged in criminal cases have no right to bail and it being granted is done solely at the judges discretion and it is within his power to dictate the terms Loris release on bail. Its likely Chad was given the same conditions but I missed that portion of the trial
 
Is Means married? Just wondering....moo



it was reported several pages back CD son said he did shoot a raccoon the year before.

IF a raccoons remains are searched for and found. I am sure science can pretty much tell how long they have been in the ground. I don’t think the defense will go searching for the raccoon though.

Not sure if Means is married. LoL. Yep, the racoonwas shot a couple of months earlier in July and a neighbour heard the shot and asked Chad"s son about it, who explained his father shot the racoon out of a tree.
 
Transcript of Lori Daybell's call to Chad Daybell on day of children's discovery

What did Mark Means know ????


Lori Daybell
“Are you okay?”
Chad Daybell
No, they’re searching the property.”
Lori Daybell
“The house right now?”
Chad Daybell
Yeah, yeah. [Unintelligible, possibly ‘not the house.’] So Mark Means [Lori Daybell’s attorney] will be talking to you.”
Lori Daybell
“Okay. What, are they in the house?”
Chad Daybell
No, they’re out in the property.”
Lori Daybell
“Are they seizing stuff again?”
Chad Daybell
They’re searching. There’s a search warrant and so [unintelligible] with the kids.”
Lori Daybell
“Okay.”
Chad Daybell
“So yeah, saw you’d tried to pull up a, a call. I’m glad you called.”
Lori Daybell
“Yeah.”
Chad Daybell
So, we’ll see what transpires.
Lori Daybell
“‘Kay.”
Chad Daybell
“[Unintelligible]”
Lori Daybell
“What do you want me to do? Pray?”
Chad Daybell
“What?”
Lori Daybell
“What do you want me to–”
Chad Daybell
“No, [talking over Lori] I’m sorry. ”
Lori Daybell
“[Laughs]”
Chad Daybell
“Well, [unintelligible]”
Lori Daybell
“Mmmkay. What can I do for you?”
Chad Daybell
“I’m [unintelligible] pretty calm. I would call Mark, though. We need, can you just talk with him?”
Lori Daybell
Have you talked to him already?”
Chad Daybell
“[Unintelligible, possibly ‘I’ve tried to call him since.’]”
Lori Daybell
So he knows what they’re doing?”
Chad Daybell
Yeah. Looks like I’ve, a call from somebody else who I need to talk to, honey. I love you so much.”
 
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Excellent post, thank you.

It also shouts out to me, whose dog/cat were they, and were they noted specifically ON TOP of the remains, or next to it. The detective/or Special Agent? noted that it was easily identified as a dog and a cat.

Also, this double speak reminds me of the Casey Anthony case where there was sooooo much confusion and so many "squirrels" (not to mention the one under her car) that never came into trial. That said, I don't recall the info that the previous racoon was shot out of a tree. Not doubting, just don't recall. Due to the fact that I have done family genealogy for over 40 years, (traveled to SLC archives at one point) and LDS is REALLY into family genealogy... it made me think of "someone being shot out of the family tree" iykwim.

Hmmmm.

That's why I'm wanting to revisit this info of "being shot out of the tree" that you mention - if anyone can help . TIA
Per the agent's testimony, the dog and cat were not found very close to (or on top of) Tylee's remains. They uncovered the pets within the marked 10x10 boundaries, excavated deeper with a backhoe, recovered two vertebrae which the anthropologist could not immediately identify as human, then moved north of the boundary where Tylee was found. So several feet north of the pet remains.
 
I hope that bodycam footage of LVD talking to Ball/Stubbs is coming into the trial. Can anyone think of any reason the defense might be able to get it excluded? Is it allowed to be filmed in someone's house without telling the person?

The lies just fall off her lips.

Hiding her marriage to Chad, lying that JJ had been in school in ID for 2 months, husband passed away - not even killed in self-defense anymore!

I wish those officers had said to her 'isn't CD your husband?'
 
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