Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

[GoneGoldfishin']

DBM

 

[mickey2942]

Of course she is the only legal mother..... We all understand that this case is complicated. You posting random information defending someone who can't even tell her family where her children are is not helping any. She may feel like she doesn't have to say anything because it is the law, or whatever petty excuse she comes up with, but that is not how a parent acts. It would be ridiculous for LE to allow another Casey Anthony case happen.

I am definitely not "defending" Lori Vallow. I am trying to objectively review the evidence that has been presented so far, and piece it within the framework of the laws of the State of Idaho. Based on the evidence that has been presented, I don't see any standing here.

I don't see how all of the other deaths; Charles Vallow, Tammy Daybell, Alex Cox, can be brought into the situation, because Lori has not been charged with any wrongdoing in those deaths.

This is so complex, Lori is absolutely Machiavellian, if she actually gets away with everything.

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

Heres the email to Chad.

Arizona Police Investigating 'Suspicious' Email In Connection To Lori Vallow's Former Husband's Death

Terrible grammar, and that last line... 'With Admiration' ~CV made me want to vomit!

 

[Christ is Truth]

The thing is these are the most dangerous cults, with the most dangerous cult leaders. Especially what I am seeing with this cult. I have read stories of people having all kinds of bad experiences with this already.

I found a couple of forums, where there are LDS people defending this cult, there are also those that oppose it too.

What is particularly dangerous, is how he is teaching this. I don't think your average Christian is going to understand how crafty and insidious this is. Probably a good thing for anyone to know.

The techniques used can apply to a lot of belief systems that we all hold. At the core, this is based on psychological warfare. Sometimes this is very obvious, and in your face. Other times, it is very subtle, and sneaky.

Have you ever changed your mind about something? Of course, we all have. Knowing why we do so can be a valuable tool.

What he does, is he takes scriptures (that he cherry picks), combine this with familiar terminology (in this case LDS terminology), then makes an argument based on this framework.

He uses several other tactics: he is careful to say that that this may not be for you, that you may not be ready for this.

This does several things. Anything bad happens, he can say it's not his fault, the person wasn't ready. The second thing this does is work on a person's psyche. This is why peer pressure works so well, it uses the same line of thinking.

Next, he carefully crafts a message using scriptures, terminology, and widely held beliefs to convince his followers that this is doctrinal. He carefully creates an argument to fit the narrative.

I understand how this works, very well. I spent 4 years in H.S. and 2 in College on Debate teams. What you learn really fast, is that truth can easily be manipulated to fit the narrative. The really crafty, charismatic speakers use techniques to play on people's emotions. This can easily be seen in our culture today.

As an example, here are some very explosive topics, that have people very divided to the point that friendships can be ruined over it. The main ones are what we all know: Religion, politics, and sex. If you really research any of these topics, in depth, you can start to see why people could believe either extreme, or anything in between.

The next sneaky tactic he uses I don't know the name, but maybe someone here does. I will call it "You're a Special Immortal". Basically what this is, is that most people want to feel that they are "special" in some way, or because they are so "special" they can "save" others. You see this throughout our culture, here are some words it can go under: The White Knight, Narcissist, God Complex, Conceited, Hubris, etc. You get the general idea.

This is where someone who is strongly religious can fall for this trap. They ask themselves some of these questions, have these type of thoughts, and make statements like the following (as an example only):

- Well he is using scriptures. That's good, I'll keep listening.
- He is saying that this works for him (validation), but I might not be ready (Sure I am ready)
- Alright he is using religious terminology that I am familiar with, that makes sense.
- What he's saying makes sense. I'll keep learning about this.
- He's not saying anything bad, he's using scriptures, referring to terminology I am familiar with.
- I'm special (I just knew it), I am so ready for the mysteries. Of course I am one of those 144,000 "Immortals"
- This all makes sense now, I am a true believer.

This is how someone gets pulled into this, it happens gradually over time, and they convince themselves that this is true. There are a lot of techniques that good cult leaders use. Most of them are very experienced with psychology, and how to manipulate one's will. It's basically brainwashing, except the victims are compliant and willing to subject themselves to it.

I'll tell you right now, using this same framework, you could (in theory - please don't) carefully craft a religion that is radicalized and slowly but surely lead people away from God.

This group has already caused people to leave their spouses, believe in reincarnation (they call it something else though), believe they are transitioning to "immortals", and who knows what else.

MOO

Thank you for the insight! It is SCARY how easy it is to get sucked in. I despise people that manipulate and play on others emotions. It’s evil. It really is.
I noticed how he said something to the effect of “maybe you’re not ready.” Yeah, it’s meant to subtly attack a person’s pride. How dare you say I’m not good enough. Yeah, it hits at a person’s need to feel special and validated. And then they use Christ’s name while they’re at it. SMH. That’s is why I cannot stress enough for people to read their bibles! Don’t depend on other people to teach you. Know yourself. There will be many false Christs out there. We need to know how to recognize the right one so we don’t get led astray by wolves in sheep’s clothing. MOO

 

[MimosaMornings]

I have never met Tammy Daybell. But I know LDS culture. I am going to guess zero to no chance that Tammy Daybell "confronted" Chad Daybell about anything. If she mentioned it, the context would have been "asking" Chad.

Chad could have easily made up a story about some crazy husband and kooky woman who read his books and was his fan. Tammy and Chad would have had family prayer together, and possibly discussed meeting with the bishop.

Really? Would it have been the same if it was Chad “asking” Tammy? I have very little knowledge of LDS culture.

 

[Christ is Truth]

OMG.... That gives me chills! This is the house police searched with metal detectors around the shed right??

Correct

 

[jjenny]

No, I think Charles didn't even know who CD was? This can be inferred by the letter he sent Alex.

....
MOO

Charles send letter to Adam, not Alex. Ho obviously knew better than to trust Alex.

 

[Anonymous91]

Charles send letter to Adam, not Alex. Ho obviously knew better than to trust Alex.

You're correct. I really did mean Adam.

 

[tresir2012]

She doesn't have to.

Does the government have a right to demand a parent produce their children on demand, if there has never been an allegation of abuse?

No one else has any legal standing for custody of JJ or Tylee. Why is the State of Idaho pursuing this? Legally.

Lori Vallow has not been charged with any wrongdoing in connection with the death of Charles Vallow, or Alex Cox.

Furthermore, Chad Daybell has not been charged with any crime either.

I am not an advocate for Lori Vallow. But pointing out, that INMO, the State of Idaho is skating on some very thin ice, legally.

Please don't argue with me, unless you have an actual law, from the State of Idaho statutes that contradicts this.

They do have a right and that is why she is now being brought back from Hawaii. $5 million bail is enough to convince me they have a case or cases against her. An Idaho and Hawaii judge has signed off on this so that's enough for me.

 

[tresir2012]

If Chad had the key to mailbox there is no reason he couldn’t pick up whatever was in box, mine had 2 issued at rental with access 24/7

Hmmm. Ok that's interesting then.

 

[tresir2012]

LIFE Planning was in the divorce documents - It was discussed in Thread 6

In CV's LinkedIn R.I.T.E. Planning is mentioned.

 

[tresir2012]

Random people don't have the right to demand welfare checks. It's a courtesy.

Random people? Do you mean the grandparents don't have a right to request a welfare check? Actually anyone can request a check, I understand, if worried about someone.

 

[tresir2012]

Do you really think Chad stayed with them if Charles was there?

I guess we'll never know unless Chad or Lori tell all. Maybe she had done this trick several times before as we know Charles was travelling a lot for his work. Maybe the PO Box did have a purpose after all and would explain why Charles name was on it too.

 

[Colorado303]

Here is a question that has been gnawing at me lately. The lawyer called her Miss/Ms. Vallow. When I checked the offender records to see if she was still incarcerated in Hawaii, she is listed under LV. Which would have to be under her legal name? Did she keep her last name - WHY? Did they actually legally get married? I don’t think anyone has seen a marriage certificate yet?

Well, Alex took Z’s last name. Maybe instead of calling her Lori Daybell we should be saying Chad Vallow. (Or Chad Ryan. Or Chad Cox).

 

[tresir2012]

But the State of Idaho has to prove that there has been abuse.

That is the crux of this situation.

They have to have or find the child first though.

 

[tresir2012]

I typed up the full text of both letters for reference and put it in the media thread:

Email written to Chad 28 Jun 2019 under alias account pretending to be Charles:

Hello Chad,
I hope you are doing well. This is Charles Vallow from Arizona. We really enjoyed having you stay with us back in November when you came to the Preparing A People Conference. I appreciated you taking time to talk to me about the book I've been working on. Well, more than six months later I still haven't made much progress on it, but I feel an urgency to get it done. As the Managing Partner of RITE Planning Group I'm going to have the opportunity to speak at various conventions beginning in the fall, but everyone says I need to have a book available that summarizes my life and shares the principles I follow.

So I will cut to the chase. I'm willing to pay you well to help me get this book into shape as my ghostwriter. I really liked you autobiography and the tone you took in sharing experiences without preaching. Is there any way you could come here for a couple of days and help me get the book underway? I feel talking in person would be much more valuable than a phone call or video chat, mainly because I would like you to read through some of my journals and explain to me how the publishing industry works. It would help me know whether I truly have a book in me, and whether you want to team up on it. I played minor league baseball and have plenty of stories that my audience could relate to, along with the knowledge I've gained running my own company. So I do feel the book would contain valuable information even beyond the convention circuit.

I'm out of town until Saturday, but I would gladly fly you down here early next week before the holiday and cover your expense. You could stay in our guest room like before, or in a hotel if you prefer. I hate to take you away from your family, but I know this book is vital to my speaking success. I understand if you don't want to take part in the project, but I would definitely make it worth your time.

With admiration,
Charles

Email sent 29 June 2019 from Charles Vallow to Lori's brother Adam Cox:

Adam
Open this letter and see what she did. I'm not sure if the relationship with her and Chad Daybell but they are up to something. She created this email alias for me as I've never set this one up. She sent this yesterday and I guess she forgot all her emails are on the computer at my house. I asked her to explain it and she started blaming you, Brandon and me for perpetuating a scheme against her. Just more of her paranoia. She will not explain it. I am going to send it to Chad Daybell's wife. Her name is Tammy and I found her email address on their website. I've got her cell number too. Sounds very suspicious to me. What do you think? Whenever she gets caught doing this kind of stiff she starts blaming everybody else. Mostly me, you and Brandon. Brandon and I are the victims of her craziness. I wish you luck trying to help her. I was the only one brave enough to try to get her help in January and look what happened to me. The whole family put a scarlet letter on me. Maybe now they can see what they're up against.
Thanks

Chandler PD confirms investigation into an email from Charles Vallow before his death

Thanks so much for doing that. I was going bosseyed trying to read the screenshots.

 

[CSIDreamer]

But the State of Idaho has to prove that there has been abuse.

That is the crux of this situation.

If I recall, the charges are desertion and non support. Not abuse. (Catching up). Jmo

 

[Midwestmom2019]

But, does the State have legal standing to demand that a parent produce a child on demand?

Habeas Corpus in the Family Code gives you answers to your question.

 

[tresir2012]

Either way, the State of Idaho is going to have to prove the charges. Which is going to be difficult. Unless they have a boatload of additional evidence.

It is too bad that there is no potential parent who has a legal and legitimate right to demand visitation. Lori would not be able to squirm out of that.

INMO, "Caylee's Law", in Florida, should be made into a federal law. That would give the FBI jurisdiction into every single missing child case, and federal felony charges for lying to a federal officer.

I can't see why this wouldn't happen. It makes sense.
Caylee's Law - Wikipedia

Except, of course, to Lori Vallow, she has not reported her children "missing", because they are not "missing" to her. Go figure it.

Have you got anything to show that Lori thinks that? I think FBI already have jurisdiction in this because of the travelling between states to commit crimes. Chad has already lied to the FBI about not knowing Lori very well (despite being married to her) and not having her phone number despite later admitting he did have it and also trying to get MG to lie about the kids. They are in it up to their necks. I don't think LE know what to charge Chad with first TBH. MOO

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Have you got anything to show that Lori thinks that? I think FBI already have jurisdiction in this because of the travelling between states to commit crimes. Chad has already lied to the FBI about not knowing Lori very well (despite being married to her) and not having her phone number despite later admitting he did have it and also trying to get MG to lie about the kids. They are in it up to their necks. I don't think LE know what to charge Chad with first TBH. MOO

LE wanted him in Idaho before charging him with anything. Extradition would be impossible for murder of Tammy, otherwise. Never mind accessory to other crimes and co-conspiracy.