Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #31

[Hatfield]

Do we know if a silencer was used? If not, it seems the whole neighborhood would be calling the police.

JMO
Gunshot sounds and sounds in general are a funny thing. Depending on how well a home is insulated and depending on so many other factors like were people in their inner most rooms, was a TV on or music playing, was any windows open, were people even home at the time, which way your head is turned where your ears are facing the sound or not, was it windy outside, and so many other things come into play.

It doesnt surprise me anymore when neighbors dont necessarily hear a gunshot from a house next door.

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
Just to add something I found very interesting about our human ears and how something like which way our head is turned can cause a big difference in how well we can hear a sound coming from a distance.

Most people are familiar with how certain dogs have "cupped" ears like on a German Shepard's ear. If you ever watch a dog that has firm cupped ears and watch how they listen, they will often turn only their ear to face the sound and they use their cupped ear like a funnel to funnel the sound to their ear.

The important part of that is the movement of their ear. They will twist and turn just their ear while keeping their eyes on their target that they think is making the noise.

They have a huge advantage over us humans. For us to hear better, we have to physically turn our head sideways to have our ears facing the sound and we normally do not ever do that because our eyes are more important to us so we usually keep our eyes facing where we think a noise is coming from.

If a sound keeps repeating, we may even cup our own ears with our hands to try to hear better but we seldom turn our heads sideways to accomplish it.

So if we are randomly inside our house and not expecting a neighbor to be shooting inside their own home, then depending on which way our head is turned and which way our ears are facing does make a big difference in how well we can hear things coming from a certain direction.

I have always found it very interesting how animals that have cupped ears use them. I guess I watched too much Discovery channel. LOL

One other thing some may find interesting to know. Hunting dogs like Brittany Spaniels and Labrador Retrievers have floppy ears which cover their ear canal, and this allows them not to be bothered by loud gunshots as much as dogs with cupped ears.

That is one reason why those types of dogs can handle being near their owner when out hunting and shooting right near the dog. The sound does not bother them as much as a dog with cupped ears.

 

[Tortoise]

CONTRADICTIONS - RE. ALEX BEING HIT WITH BAT BY CHARLES

A few segments from Lori's police statement:

"Lori confirmed that he had put [redacted - presumably JJ] and the backpack in the car in the driveway and then had come back in."

"her brother grabbed him from behind to stop him from hitting [redacted - presumably Tylee]. Lori is motioning with her right arm and Lori said it's to grab him and pull him back. Lori said then they [her brother and her husband] get into the thing and he's hitting her brother with the bat and they're on the ground like grappling around or whatever. Lori said it happened quickly. I asked if her brother was struck with the bat when they were grappling and Lori stated yes, that he was hitting her brother and Lori is swinging her right arm downward. Lori said he is swinging the bat back and forth and they are on the ground. Lori said she is freaking out and is trying to go around and knows [redacted - presumably JJ] is in the car.

Lori said he [her husband] gets up and he has the bat towards her and is motioning with her right hand as if a person would be swinging backhanded. Lori said she is going around the other side because she is trying to get out of his range so he couldn't hit her. Lori begins to say that she told [redacted - presumably Tylee] and then explains that [redacted - presumably Tylee] is on the ground because, when he took the bat from [redacted - presumably Tylee], she fell back. Lori told [redacted - presumably Tylee] to go get in the car with [redacted - presumably JJ] because she didn't want [redacted - presumably JJ] coming in and she wanted [redacted - presumably Tylee] out and didn't want the kids in the house for whatever "this fight was going to be". "



Segments from Tylee's police statement:

"[Tylee] said she kind of stuck the baseball bat out there and [her stepdad] grabbed it and tried to take it but she held onto the end. [Tylee] is motioning like she held the end with both hands and that he grabbed the other end with two hands. [Tylee] stated eventually she fell and he took it into his hands and held it like he was going to do something with it. I asked that, when she fell, he ended up with the bat and [Tylee] confirmed that. [Tylee] said she fell to the ground and then she saw [her stepdad] take a step back so she thinks her uncle grabbed him and took him back so he couldn't do anything. I confirmed that she saw her stepdad take a step back and she indicated yes, that he was really close and then went back. [Tylee] advised her mom told her to go with [redacted - presumably JJ] and then she ran out the door. [Tylee] said she stood there with her little brother. [Tylee] indicated he was in the front seat so she opened the door and stood there. [Tylee] advised he tried to get out and she was keeping him there. [Tylee] said eventually her mom came out and they left from there.

[...]

[Tylee] said she's holding it by the place where you hold it and he kind of took it and [Tylee] gets lunged forward and she lost her footing. [Tylee] indicated her mom said "just let go" and [Tylee] said she kind of slipped and fell, kind of on her side, and after that her mom told her to go so she ran out the door

I asked about when that happened and then her mom told her to go, did she see what happened with her stepdad and uncle. [Tylee] stated no."



Alex to police officer outside residence:

O: What happened today? How did it get to this?
AC: I don't know he was enraged.
O: Well what's going on, what happened?
AC: Well he [started on?] my sister earlier
O: Well what happened today though? Like just within the last 20 minutes.
AC: Just, he came to, he came at me with a bat
[irrelevant stuff]
AC: No I think, they were talking earlier then she left and then, he got into it with me.
O: Like what? What do you mean?
AC: I don't know he was, he was accusing me of [silence]
O: Come on over here, that truck's going to be really loud. What was he accusing you of?
AC: [silence]. I don't know. He was just yelling at me.
O: Okay. What was he yelling at you about?
AC: About my sister because I'd broken up a tussle with them earlier. And he told me not to interfere anymore with them or I'd pay. And he came at me with a bat. And he [silence]
O: Okay so he showed up in the house with a bat in his hand?
AC: No.
O: Okay so...
AC: There was a scuffle earlier, with my sister and my niece, my niece got involved,
O: Earlier meaning earlier this week? Earlier this morning?
AC: No no no just this morning, before they left,
O: Before your wife left?
AC: My sister.
O: Before your sister left?
AC: Yes.
[...]
O: Okay and there was a tussle between your sister and her husband?
AC: Yes. [irrelevant]
O: So at some point earlier today they get into a some type of domestic?
AC: Yeah, just this morning, then they left and then he came at me [silence]
O: They left meaning who? Both the parties?
AC: Yeah my sister took my niece and my nephew...
O: Okay so they left.
AC: ...to create some space from him and then he came at me.
O: Okay but did he leave also?
AC: No.
O: He stayed here.
AC: He stayed.
O: So you guys are kind of talking in between or what? [male neighbor wanders over and officer tells him to go back]
O: So you were just, so it's just you and, and your brother in law.
AC: Yes.
O: Okay. And kind of go through it.
AC: So,
O: Did you say something like hey don't touch my sister or wh..
AC: Yeah I said what, what, yeah. And then he picked up the bat.
O: Where was the bat at?
AC: In the living room. [interrupted by another officer asking questions about Charles:]
O: Is his vehicle here? How did he get here?
Officer 2: This one here from Texas? [pointing at car in garage] ( tagging @DI_Isokawa )
AC: No, that's my sister's car. I think he came in a rental car. I think my sister's in it.
O: You think your sister's in the rental car? Okay. So you both, you get into an argument? What is it over?
AC: Well it was over my sister. He was, he was uh getting physical with her and so my niece came out with her bat and then he took the bat away from her.
O: I thought you said your niece left.
AC: She did. This was before.
O: Okay, so before, before your sister and your niece left...
AC: Yeah.
O: ...at some point your sister and her husband are arguing
AC: Yes
O: Verbal argument, and then your niece pulls out a bat??
AC: Wasn't verbal he was getting close and she came out to defend my sister with her bat.
O: Your niece.
AC: Yes. And then she poked at him and he took it away.
O: Okay.
AC: And then... I, I stepped in and told them they needed to separate
O: Right
AC: So then my sister leaves with my niece
O: How long ago did they leave? been like an hour, 10 minutes?
AC: 20 minutes, I don't know. And then er [silence] and then he's, he's coming back at me and he's still got the bat and I'm like 'what are you doing?'
O: And where are you at?
AC: we're in the living room, and then I turned around and he hit me in the back of the head with the bat. So I went to my room and got my gun, cause I always carry it,
O: So you went to your room, meaning the room you're staying in?
AC: The room I'm staying in
O: Okay and you brought a gun with you?
AC: Yes. Yes.
O: Do you always bring your gun?
AC: Yes. I have a concealed carry, I always...just to be safe. [Lori and Tylee arrive back and officer tells them to wait aside]
AC: And then I told him to put the bat down and he wouldn't and he came at me again
O: So you told him to put the...
AC: Yes! ...back off.
O: So where are you at now? Did you stay in your bedroom?
AC: No?
O: Okay why didn't you stay just in your bedroom, close the door?
AC: Silence.
O: Is that something you didn't think about, or
AC: No, didn't even occur to me.
O: Okay so walk me through it, you go back into your room
AC: I just went back in the living room I went 'what is your problem?'
O: With the gun in your hand
AC: Yes! And I said I want you to put that bat down and he wouldn't do it, he was like, and he came at me with the bat again, after he'd already hit me in the head, so I shot him to stop him.
O: Okay then what happened?
AC: That was it.

links
Lori's police statement:Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix
Tylee's police statement:Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix
Body cam re AC:

All three have a different story.

Lori says Alex and Charles were on the floor and Charles was hitting Alex with the bat. (hitting = repeated action). This would have to mean Alex was lying face down with Charles on top of him, to be getting a hammering on the back of the head. (She also mentions elsewhere in her statement that throughout this Alex is yelling "get off me" and "ow".) Then she told Tylee, who was still on the floor from when Charles grabbed the bat to go outside with JJ. Lori also says Tylee was pulled backwards to the floor.

Tylee says she fell fowards, onto her side. Tylee did not see Charles and Alex on the floor, or see Charles hitting Alex.

Alex says this all happened after Lori left the house, and therefore none of them saw him being hit. He doesn't mention any scrap on the floor, and infers he was hit as he was standing and with his back to Charles.



Also note Lori says Charles' rental car was parked in the driveway.

 

[medtraveler]

If on the slim chance she does end up posting bail, i pray that LE run surveillance on her like a hawk!

which would run in the tens of thousands in taxpayer dollars, and manpower that could be better used elsewhere. NTM her history of disobeying court orders as far back as 09/10. A bail reduction would be mind boggling.

 

[Tortoise]

Did the police ever show a picture of the bat that supposedly hit AC and did it even have blood on it?

It's shown at 2:38/2:40 minutes in the video in the post you replied to.

It hasn't been stated anywhere, in the documents released so far, that the bat was taken into evidence.

 

[Hatfield]

which would run in the tens of thousands in taxpayer dollars, and manpower that could be better used elsewhere. NTM her history of disobeying court orders as far back as 09/10. A bail reduction would be mind boggling.

I agree and hope her bail is not lowered as I do think she will try to disappear if let out.

When she was trying to be interviewed in Hawaii with the plastic bag of cash, I think they were planning on flying out somewhere to get away. I am not sure why else she would have all that cash in that bag in her hand.

It looked like a lot of money if the bills were larger bills. I always wondered if they were trying to plan an escape to parts unkown.
Maybe they realized they were being tailed by LE and could never leave without LE knowing. Im not sure but that bag of cash sure seemed like get-away cash to me.

 

[medtraveler]

Most times gunshots can be heard a block away. I remember in the madison holton case this came into play b/c he claims he never heard the shots. So the sheriff went to the neighbors house, I think was 200 feet away. They fired shots and they were very clear, so the kid was lying.

 

[Tortoise]

 

[Hatfield]

Most times gunshots can be heard a block away. I remember in the madison holton case this came into play b/c he claims he never heard the shots. So the sheriff went to the neighbors house, I think was 200 feet away. They fired shots and they were very clear, so the kid was lying.

I dont dispute you can sometimes hear gunshots from neighboring homes but for the many reasons and different variables I already listed, there are times when neighbors dont hear anything.

Many examples. Link to one.

"People living nearby tell Fox43 they did not hear any gunshots"

Neighbors say they didn’t hear gunshots in deadly Lebanon shooting

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I agree. The last thing we need is to go through months and months of a trial only to have the verdict being successfully appealed and thrown out based on ineffective counsel.

I would much rather she have a normal decent defense attorney so that when she gets convicted, it sticks.

So in all Chad's wisdom, his strategy is to get them both convicted of murder and then appeal on the grounds of ineffectual counsel? *Smart* or not!

 

[Lusitana]

Why would Lori get released? Is she immunocompromised?

 

[v0x]

 

[v0x]

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Do we even know how many shots were fired? Did the Chandler cops pick up the shell casings? Were there exit wounds (point blank range with a .45)? Did the Chandler cops question why Charles's wallet was missing? If Lori drove off in the rental car after the shooting, how did she get the start fob/key for it? Why no blood on Alex? It just goes on and on ...

 

[Tortoise]

Do we even know how many shots were fired? Did the Chandler cops pick up the shell casings? Were there exit wounds (point blank range with a .45)? Did the Chandler cops question why Charles's wallet was missing? If Lori drove off in the rental car after the shooting, how did she get the start fob/key for it? Why no blood on Alex? It just goes on and on ...

Where did it state Charles' wallet was missing?

 

[divineappt]

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix
9 hrs ·
JUST IN: Waiting for document on updated motion for bond reduction. Hearing for Lori Vallow is now set for 4/24, instead of this Friday. If she does post bail, her address will be sealed.

I'm not sure what his first sentence means. Does it mean she has filed yet another amended motion?

Updated motion because of date change? Speculation and MOO.

 

[divineappt]

JMO
I tend to agree that it is more likely that Ax would have used a 45 caliber than Lori. Its a powerful round and gives a large recoil. Some women do own and can handle them of course but its not as typical as lets say a man owning one. The gun used in the "Dirty Harry" movie by Clint Eastwood was a .45.

But the clincher for me is the perfect accuracy with a handgun even at a short range makes me think he likely was the one using the weapon since we know he did practice at the range. This may better explain why I got convinced he was the shooter.

I grew up in a hunting family so have been familiar with different types of weapons and going to the range a lot.

To help others understand why handguns are notoriously inaccurate as compared to lets say a long rifle, the best way I can describe it is by describing the regular open sights or iron sights that are usually pre-manufactured on both the two different weapons. Long Rifle versus Handgun.

The regular manufactured iron sights that usually come on most rifles and handguns are composed of two parts. The front sight
and the rear sight. The front sight is the one nearest the end of the barrel and the rear sight is the one closest to your eye. The idea is you have to line up the two sights together and that gives you the bullet trajectory to the target.

What makes handguns so much less accurate than a long rifle is the distance between the two parts of the sights is obviously much shorter on a handgun than on a long rifle.
That shorter distance plays a key component in the loss of accuracy.

If you have a long distance between the two parts of the sights, then your accuracy will naturally be increased a lot.

But on handguns this distance is so short between the two sights that any slight movement of the weapon means you are getting a whole lot of variable in where you end up trying to hit a target.

Since there were no misses it means the shooter was fairly experienced and pretty accurate with the weapon. Since we know Ax had gone to gun range, it is telling me that he was the likely shooter.

Lori and any other female could get just as good as any man could with enough practice and experience, but when you combine the accuracy with the large .45 caliber used, and the fact we know he did go to the range, then it puts it over the top for me that he was likely the shooter.

Just to clarify, the gun Dirty Harry used was a 44. My husband owned one, it is a much larger, heavier gun than a .45 cal. “In the 1971 movie Dirty Harry, actor Clint Eastwood introduced the world to the double-action Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44-cal. Magnum revolver—"the most powerful handgun in the world."

It was a crown S&W wore proudly, albeit briefly.”

SBM the rest is here for anyone really bored by the quarantine!

Smith and Wesson Most Powerful Handgun - 500 Cal Magnum Pistol from Smith and Wesson

 

[Monroe2]

Updated motion because of date change? Speculation and MOO.

Yes, is there an updated motion?? Anyone know?

 

[watergirl62]

I know i can only shoot a few clips from my .45 before my arms fatigue. DH has a .50 cal Desert Eagle, but I seriously don't even want to shoot it. Somebody lent me a Colt .44 DA once upon a time. I figured if I couldn't shoot somebody with it, I could maybe do some damage hitting them over the head because its so big and heavy.

I think AxC pulled the trigger.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Where did it state Charles' wallet was missing?

I could swear I read that somewhere but going back through the material I can't find it Post in haste, repent at leisure ...