Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #31

[Hatfield]

Just to clarify, the gun Dirty Harry used was a 44. My husband owned one, it is a much larger, heavier gun than a .45 cal. “In the 1971 movie Dirty Harry, actor Clint Eastwood introduced the world to the double-action Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44-cal. Magnum revolver—"the most powerful handgun in the world."

It was a crown S&W wore proudly, albeit briefly.”

SBM the rest is here for anyone really bored by the quarantine!

Smith and Wesson Most Powerful Handgun - 500 Cal Magnum Pistol from Smith and Wesson

Good catch. It was a great movie and the barrel on his handgun was unusually long for a handgun.

I cant remember if I shot a .45 or a .44 but I shot one of those once and only once. I didnt want to shoot it again after that.

 

[medtraveler]

Wow!
"I am unable to meet at the jail because of covid19. We can't get the privacy we need, this is going to take awhile."

To me this sounds like a thinly veiled excuse/threat. I think this is about money. Juicy!

 

[Hatfield]

Wow!
"I am unable to meet at the jail because of covid19. We can't get the privacy we need, this is going to take awhile."

To me this sounds like a thinly veiled excuse/threat. I think this is about money. Juicy!

You could be right.
His excuse about privacy doesnt sound right to me.

I always thought lawyers got a special private meeting room or something to meet with clients that are in jail?

We know inmates dont normally have any real privacy with telephone calls and normal visitor meetings through the normal visitation glass or a visiting room, but I had always thought attorneys meeting with their clients is different and that they would get some sort of special room to meet in where there is real privacy that are not listened by jail staff.

Does anyone know for sure about attorney/client meetings while client is in jail?

Isnt there real privacy for them to meet with their clients to discuss their case strategies?

 

[loganlocal]

Isnt there real privacy for them to meet with their clients to discuss their case strategies?

Normally yes, but I read that the Idaho facility where LV is being held has begun conducting all meetings either by phone or in a public room due to covid sanitation concerns.

 

[Hatfield]

Normally yes, but I read that the Idaho facility where LV is being held has begun conducting all meetings either by phone or in a public room due to covid sanitation concerns.

Oh, I see. Thanks. So maybe his excuse is valid afterall.

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

I could swear I read that somewhere but going back through the material I can't find it Post in haste, repent at leisure ...

You are correct, she claims he came back in to get his wallet or phone and she refused to give it to him

 

[Tortoise]

AC: and then he's, he's coming back at me and he's still got the bat and I'm like 'what are you doing?'
O: And where are you at?
AC: we're in the living room, and then I turned around and he hit me in the back of the head with the bat. So I went to my room and got my gun, cause I always carry it,
[...]
AC: I just went back in the living room I went 'what is your problem?'
O: With the gun in your hand
AC: Yes! And I said I want you to put that bat down and he wouldn't do it, he was like, and he came at me with the bat again, after he'd already hit me in the head, so I shot him to stop him.
O: Okay then what happened?
AC: That was it.

Just clipping this down to the core of his story.

If there is a police officer anywhere who believes Alex is telling the truth here, they are in the wrong job.

He has made the liar's classic mistake of forgetting to choreograph Charles' movements in his story. Charles hits him with the bat. Continuing in the same tone, he gives no description of the moment of injury, almost as if it didn't happen. Raging Charles who put Alex in fear for his life stays where he is, simply freezing long enough for Alex to leave the room, and get his gun. Alex returns with gun in hand and Charles just springs back to life, going at Alex again even though he can see he now has a gun.

He also waits to tell the officer Charles hit him until he's been questioned for many minutes, as if he hasn't quite worked out how to say it convincingly. That suggests to me nerves about the big lie.

moo

 

[Tortoise]

You are correct, she claims he came back in to get his wallet or phone and she refused to give it to him

That was his phone.

 

[Tortoise]

The attorney general had initially turned down the request citing a lack of resources, according to Murdoch.

Scott Graf, the attorney general’s spokesman, said that when Murdoch first made the request it wasn’t clear if the state office would have the capacity to take over the case, based on current and anticipated caseloads.

Idaho AG to probe spouse death in tangled missing kids case - Court TV

 

[cb73]

You could be right.
His excuse about privacy doesnt sound right to me.

I always thought lawyers got a special private meeting room or something to meet with clients that are in jail?

We know inmates dont normally have any real privacy with telephone calls and normal visitor meetings through the normal visitation glass or a visiting room, but I had always thought attorneys meeting with their clients is different and that they would get some sort of special room to meet in where there is real privacy that are not listened by jail staff.

Does anyone know for sure about attorney/client meetings while client is in jail?

Isnt there real privacy for them to meet with their clients to discuss their case strategies?

Can't speak for there, but here we have an "infamous" person in jail and when family members of other people go to visit their relative they can clearly hear what this person and his lawyer are discussing. I've heard several things way before the media ever did.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

JMO
I tend to agree that it is more likely that Ax would have used a 45 caliber than Lori. Its a powerful round and gives a large recoil. Some women do own and can handle them of course but its not as typical as lets say a man owning one. The gun used in the "Dirty Harry" movie by Clint Eastwood was a .45.

But the clincher for me is the perfect accuracy with a handgun even at a short range makes me think he likely was the one using the weapon since we know he did practice at the range. This may better explain why I got convinced he was the shooter.

I grew up in a hunting family so have been familiar with different types of weapons and going to the range a lot.

To help others understand why handguns are notoriously inaccurate as compared to lets say a long rifle, the best way I can describe it is by describing the regular open sights or iron sights that are usually pre-manufactured on both the two different weapons. Long Rifle versus Handgun.

The regular manufactured iron sights that usually come on most rifles and handguns are composed of two parts. The front sight
and the rear sight. The front sight is the one nearest the end of the barrel and the rear sight is the one closest to your eye. The idea is you have to line up the two sights together and that gives you the bullet trajectory to the target.

What makes handguns so much less accurate than a long rifle is the distance between the two parts of the sights is obviously much shorter on a handgun than on a long rifle.
That shorter distance plays a key component in the loss of accuracy.

If you have a long distance between the two parts of the sights, then your accuracy will naturally be increased a lot.

But on handguns this distance is so short between the two sights that any slight movement of the weapon means you are getting a whole lot of variable in where you end up trying to hit a target.

Since there were no misses it means the shooter was fairly experienced and pretty accurate with the weapon. Since we know Ax had gone to gun range, it is telling me that he was the likely shooter.

Lori and any other female could get just as good as any man could with enough practice and experience, but when you combine the accuracy with the large .45 caliber used, and the fact we know he did go to the range, then it puts it over the top for me that he was likely the shooter.

WTH he shot him FIVE times. A double tap would have knocked him flat. I bet he shot him while standing over him.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Do we even know how many shots were fired? Did the Chandler cops pick up the shell casings? Were there exit wounds (point blank range with a .45)? Did the Chandler cops question why Charles's wallet was missing? If Lori drove off in the rental car after the shooting, how did she get the start fob/key for it? Why no blood on Alex? It just goes on and on ...

I'd love to know how many shots fired and how many hit CV. IIRC the MSM accounts at the time said shot twice in the chest. That was clearly not the case because in the bodycam footage in the house that morning we can see someone marking presumably shell casing locations and the LEO with the camera on says to that person "a couple more shell casings over there". At the same time we hear someone off camera say "is that 3? 4? 5 shots?" while the paramedic or LEO at CV's body is saying "entrance wound here, exit wound here, exit wound here,..he's been shot many times."

ETA: If there are exit wounds where were the bullets found? In the wall? Or in the floor indicating CV was already down on the ground when some of the shots were fired?

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Also note Lori says Charles' rental car was parked in the driveway.

RSBM

And Alex's truck is parked across the front of the driveway when police arrive? How did the rental car get out?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I'd love to know how many shots fired and how many hit CV. IIRC the MSM accounts at the time said shot twice in the chest. That was clearly not the case because in the bodycam footage in the house that morning we can see someone marking presumably shell casing locations and the LEO with the camera on says to that person "a couple more shell casings over there". At the same time we hear someone off camera say "is that 3? 4? 5 shots?" while the paramedic or LEO at CV's body is saying "entrance wound here, exit wound here, exit wound here,..he's been shot many times."

ETA: If there are exit wounds where were the bullets found? In the wall? Or in the floor indicating CV was already down on the ground when some of the shots were fired?

Good questions. Too bad the scene was muffed. Two shots in the chest. 90% chance dropped right there. He kept firing as he lay dying IMO

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

CONTRADICTIONS - RE. ALEX BEING HIT WITH BAT BY CHARLES

Alex says this all happened after Lori left the house...

RSBM

If this all happened after LV, TR, and JJ left the house wouldn't there have been some level of surprise on the part of LV or TR when they returned home to find CV dead and their house crawling with police, EMTs, firemen, and even SWAT (seen on bodycam)? I don't buy that at all.

 

[medtraveler]

Did LE examine ACs head? I remember AC was sitting on the curb.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I dont dispute you can sometimes hear gunshots from neighboring homes but for the many reasons and different variables I already listed, there are times when neighbors dont hear anything.

RSBM

July 11 in Phoenix, 114 degrees that day, so everyone would have the windows closed tightly and all the air conditioning units would be making a lot of background noise.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I know there has been a ton of speculation and questions in this case, but it would take me weeks to go back through all 31 threads to figure out what is still unanswered. Regarding Charles, what are some of those questions? I'd personally like to focus on this one aspect of the case to see if I can make sense of some of it, before I dive deeper into other aspects of these crimes. So I guess what I am asking is, what unanswered questions does everyone have about CV or that fateful day of July 11, 2019? This will help give me a focal point. TY in advance.

So many questions but I'll limit myself to 2.
1) We know one of the reasons LV wanted his phone was to see what he had been texting/emailing to AdC. What was CV's relationship like with AxC, AdC, and the rest of the Cs? I imagine filing for divorce from their sister strained things.
2) Why was he there on July 11? I get that he wants to be with JJ and maybe TR, but I have read he flew in from Texas the night before and was picking up JJ to take him to school. Was CV planning to stay a few days to spend time with JJ? Was he still trying to reconcile with LV in July? Did he fly in just to have the 15 minutes with JJ to drive him to school and then he was going to fly back to Texas? I recall reading it was not unusual for him to drive JJ to school. That seems odd given that he lives in a different state.

 

[CSIDreamer]

AC: and then he's, he's coming back at me and he's still got the bat and I'm like 'what are you doing?'
O: And where are you at?
AC: we're in the living room, and then I turned around and he hit me in the back of the head with the bat. So I went to my room and got my gun, cause I always carry it,
[...]
AC: I just went back in the living room I went 'what is your problem?'
O: With the gun in your hand
AC: Yes! And I said I want you to put that bat down and he wouldn't do it, he was like, and he came at me with the bat again, after he'd already hit me in the head, so I shot him to stop him.
O: Okay then what happened?
AC: That was it.

Just clipping this down to the core of his story.

If there is a police officer anywhere who believes Alex is telling the truth here, they are in the wrong job.

He has made the liar's classic mistake of forgetting to choreograph Charles' movements in his story. Charles hits him with the bat. Continuing in the same tone, he gives no description of the moment of injury, almost as if it didn't happen. Raging Charles who put Alex in fear for his life stays where he is, simply freezing long enough for Alex to leave the room, and get his gun. Alex returns with gun in hand and Charles just springs back to life, going at Alex again even though he can see he now has a gun.

He also waits to tell the officer Charles hit him until he's been questioned for many minutes, as if he hasn't quite worked out how to say it convincingly. That suggests to me nerves about the big lie.

moo

You know what just NOW struck me as odd? Back off the kitchen was a furnished den/family room. How do you call a room that has absolutely no furniture and looks like a dance studio (we've discussed this) a living room? Jmo

 

[Tortoise]

So many questions but I'll limit myself to 2.
1) We know one of the reasons LV wanted his phone was to see what he had been texting/emailing to AdC. What was CV's relationship like with AxC, AdC, and the rest of the Cs? I imagine filing for divorce from their sister strained things.
2) Why was he there on July 11? I get that he wants to be with JJ and maybe TR, but I have read he flew in from Texas the night before and was picking up JJ to take him to school. Was CV planning to stay a few days to spend time with JJ? Was he still trying to reconcile with LV in July? Did he fly in just to have the 15 minutes with JJ to drive him to school and then he was going to fly back to Texas? I recall reading it was not unusual for him to drive JJ to school. That seems odd given that he lives in a different state.

He texted the landlord the night before to arrange a meeting with him on the morning he was killed, to find him a place to live. Also he was expecting to take JJ to have breakfast at the hotel he was staying at, which makes what Lori told the police about taking JJ to Burger King sound like another false story.