Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #33

[MadTing]

Can you imagine the kind of crazy twisted freaky conversations Chad,lori and melanie were having behind closed doors about all their nutty beliefs, just reading some of the documents and witness statements is freaky enough. Who knows what they were getting up to behind closed doors.

 

[JLouiseB]

I think this interview that Nate Eaton did is worth re looking at to understand this group.

Excellent viewing for lots of reasons, but it is especially helpful in understanding how a person who has been traumatized or part of a family, like Lori and Melanie's, that is highly socialized for anti-government, "we have our own correct view of society" beliefs, rigid belief systems, can be especially vulnerable to charismatic, cultish leaders, like Chad, who seem to understand their unique pain. Great find!
Also, great for showing the connection between looking normal and hiding extreme beliefs, and why it can feel so righteous and necessary, because it is God speaking directly to you, hence the passion that "lying" is not actually lying because God is telling you to do it!

Thanks for enduring my restatement of your original post!

 

[JLouiseB]

I totally agree. It is getting increasingly hard to believe they are safe. But she has not actually had any opportunity to present her case yet. Once she got arrested the advice she would have received would be to not say a word for good reason. Even saying the kids are safe could be incriminating at this point. And if they truly are, she will get off with little more that a $1000 fine for lying to the police.

At this point, producing the kids is really no longer an option. But if they trul are safe, producing a video with Tylee saying Hi guys, we're good, my mom did not harm us while holding today's paper could be extremely embarrassing for many.

I have to respectfully disagree, at the moment, though it could change at any time! I think Lori is all about Lori, so I cannot see her sitting in jail, with roots showing, if there was any way to produce the children without any major jail time, hence my belief that she is playing along and hoping she will be able to somehow be saved by some technicality or an end days scenario where the walls of the prison come tumbling down. Since she doesn't have a family that actually has much contact and she sounds like a loner, Chad is her best hope at the moment. I think she probably finds it easy to take on and off whatever belief system helps her survive at the moment!

 

[Tortoise]

I just wanted to point out the similarity between Summer and the person seen on the doorbell camera visiting Lori's apartment on Oct 29th. (Also to point out that Melani was in Rexburg on that date.)

(starts at 0:25)

Also seen here at Melani's court hearing in February 2020 -

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1443451255828252

screenshot from above video

 

[medtraveler]

the more rational MBP tries to appear, the more insane she looks.

she receives a text from Rexburg PD saying her apartment was broken into. She doesnt respond for several hours, and when she does, it's "Im with my family on thxgiving, and thats all that matters". That doesn't even make sense. Most of her responses dont make sense, but she uses body language and voice inflection in the same way Jordan Belfort discusses in "Way of the Wolf". You can say anything, but body language and tone of voice are far far FAR more important in your than anything you're actually saying. He discusses this at length.

I wanted to watch all three parts of Nate's interview, but I could only stomach 15 min. Melanie is so full of crap, and anytime IP spoke she watched his lips silently willing him to stick with narrative.

 

[Sorelle19]

the more rational MBP tries to appear, the more insane she looks.

she receives a text from Rexburg PD saying her apartment was broken into. She doesnt respond for several hours, and when she does, it's "Im with my family on thxgiving, and thats all that matters". That doesn't even make sense. Most of her responses dont make sense, but she uses body language and voice inflection in the same way Jordan Belfort discusses in "Way of the Wolf". You can say anything, but body language and tone of voice are far far FAR more important in your than anything you're actually saying. He discusses this at length.

I wanted to watch all three parts of Nate's interview, but I could only stomach 15 min. Melanie is so full of crap, and anytime IP spoke she watched his lips silently willing him to stick with narrative.

Love this post!!!! IMO this is a shared trait among the women in her family. They are attractive and used to being received favorably regardless of what they're saying and whether it makes sense.

 

[MadTing]

I just wanted to point out the similarity between Summer and the person seen on the doorbell camera visiting Lori's apartment on Oct 29th. (Also to point out that Melani was in Rexburg on that date.)

(starts at 0:25)

Also seen here at Melani's court hearing in February 2020 -

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1443451255828252

screenshot from above video
View attachment 246972

Shape of her legs really stud out to me as being very similar,

 

[indicolite22]

Cult mom Lori Vallow was sued by ex-husband for hiding her daughter | Daily Mail Online

Custody agreement details at:
'Cult mom' Lori Vallow had been sued by her ex-husband for hiding her daughter

 

[nyvictoria]

If Melani is pregnant, she and Ian better be hoping and praying that baby is up to Chad’s standards. She had no qualms about abandoning her other children and seems to have no problem with JJ and Tylee being missing. I fear for every child involved in this mess.

 

[CSIDreamer]

If Melani is pregnant, she and Ian better be hoping and praying that baby is up to Chad’s standards. She had no qualms about abandoning her other children and seems to have no problem with JJ and Tylee being missing. I fear for every child involved in this mess.

I hope Ian has a tiny bit of sanity left and takes the baby and runs. Jmo.

 

[MadTing]

Cult mom Lori Vallow was sued by ex-husband for hiding her daughter | Daily Mail Online

Her ex husband Ryan died of a reported heart attack, I would be interested to hear if an autopsy was done.

 

[Tortoise]

If Summer and Melani were in Rexburg on October 29th, and Chad was living there too now, (he was seen with Alex putting kids bikes into the unit the day prior) I'm speculating they knew Lori was going to be getting married in Hawaii the following week. Why would Lori hide it from her sister and niece?

Just a reminder of part of Summer and Janis' interview on CBS: - note they only talk about having no knowledge the marriage had taken place, not what they knew before the marriage, and the way Janis doesn't finish her first sentence makes me wonder why she was being careful with her words -

Loew: You don’t think that Chad brainwashed her?

JC: No! (laughing) No! He couldn’t do it. That’s not possible. It wouldn’t be possible. We can’t speak intelligently about Chad and Lori, um, I think that you know when you don’t have any understanding, we didn’t know anything about it, we didn’t know they, we learned they got married on the news. Right? So we didn’t know.
SS: Yeah, We didn’t know. We’ve never been invited to any of Lori’s weddings. So this was not unusual for us.
JC: Well we were invited, we didn’t go to any. (laughs)
SS: Well I’ve never been invited to one, but that’s fine.


Just before that Summer said this, during her speech about religious freedom -

SS: He, I don’t know Chad very well. I’ve only met him one time.


So, did she meet Chad since he came back from Hawaii in March, or did she meet him before?

If Summer and Melani knew Lori and Chad were going to Hawaii to get married, and were in Idaho on October 29th, I do not believe they didn't wonder where the children would stay while Lori and Chad went away for two weeks. Melani knew Alex was coming back to AZ with her a few days later to help her move, so he wouldn't be watching over the kids. Are we seeing deception by omission in Summer's interview? All she was asked was when was the last time she saw the children, and the last time she communicated with Tylee. It seems to me that by not revealing she met Chad and Lori before their wedding, which I think she probably did given that she says she met him, she is getting away with not explaining what Lori said about the whereabouts of the children, when she would undoubtedly have asked her, before Lori ended up on a recorded jail phone. Not that I'd believe her answer now, after seeing the lies being spouted about Kay threatening to harm the children.

I wonder if Summer and her husband knew he was a 2L-borderline-2D? They do now!


Something else occurred to me - Janis also confirms she knew Alex had moved to Idaho when she says she didn't know he'd moved back. I find it very strange that all the Coxes knew where Lori and Alex were, when Colby didn't even know where his mom and brother and sister were. I wonder what they were told about Alex's reasons for moving with Lori, since we've only heard about - a 'custody' battle - hence the children being safely hidden within days of moving to ID - not threats to Lori and Alex who were still going about their daily lives unprotected (Lori's and Alex's visits to storage unit alone, and Lori attending Tammy's memorial alone). Do we now have Alex Pastenes running away from grandma Kay too?

JC: And it’s, it was hard to hear about Alex, from the police. We didn’t know he’d gotten married, we didn’t know he’d moved back to Arizona, that was very hard.

link to Cox interview in media thread -
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION


Working out all the permutations of these interviews hurts my brain.

MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

If Summer and Melani were in Rexburg on October 29th, and Chad was living there too now, (he was seen with Alex putting kids bikes into the unit the day prior) I'm speculating they knew Lori was going to be getting married in Hawaii the following week. Why would Lori hide it from her sister and niece?

Just a reminder of part of Summer and Janis' interview on CBS: - note they only talk about having no knowledge the marriage had taken place, not what they knew before the marriage, and the way Janis doesn't finish her first sentence makes me wonder why she was being careful with her words -

Loew: You don’t think that Chad brainwashed her?

JC: No! (laughing) No! He couldn’t do it. That’s not possible. It wouldn’t be possible. We can’t speak intelligently about Chad and Lori, um, I think that you know when you don’t have any understanding, we didn’t know anything about it, we didn’t know they, we learned they got married on the news. Right? So we didn’t know.
SS: Yeah, We didn’t know. We’ve never been invited to any of Lori’s weddings. So this was not unusual for us.
JC: Well we were invited, we didn’t go to any. (laughs)
SS: Well I’ve never been invited to one, but that’s fine.


Just before that Summer said this, during her speech about religious freedom -

SS: He, I don’t know Chad very well. I’ve only met him one time.


So, did she meet Chad since he came back from Hawaii in March, or did she meet him before?

If Summer and Melani knew Lori and Chad were going to Hawaii to get married, and were in Idaho on October 29th, I do not believe they didn't wonder where the children would stay while Lori and Chad went away for two weeks. Melani knew Alex was coming back to AZ with her a few days later to help her move, so he wouldn't be watching over the kids. Are we seeing deception by omission in Summer's interview? All she was asked was when was the last time she saw the children, and the last time she communicated with Tylee. It seems to me that by not revealing she met Chad and Lori before their wedding, which I think she probably did given that she says she met him, she is getting away with not explaining what Lori said about the whereabouts of the children, when she would undoubtedly have asked her, before Lori ended up on a recorded jail phone. Not that I'd believe her answer now, after seeing the lies being spouted about Kay threatening to harm the children.

I wonder if Summer and her husband knew he was a 2L-borderline-2D? They do now!


Something else occurred to me - Janis also confirms she knew Alex had moved to Idaho when she says she didn't know he'd moved back. I find it very strange that all the Coxes knew where Lori and Alex were, when Colby didn't even know where his mom and brother and sister were. I wonder what they were told about Alex's reasons for moving with Lori, since we've only heard about - a 'custody' battle - hence the children being safely hidden within days of moving to ID - not threats to Lori and Alex who were still going about their daily lives unprotected (Lori's and Alex's visits to storage unit alone, and Lori attending Tammy's memorial alone). Do we now have Alex Pastenes running away from grandma Kay too?

JC: And it’s, it was hard to hear about Alex, from the police. We didn’t know he’d gotten married, we didn’t know he’d moved back to Arizona, that was very hard.

link to Cox interview in media thread -
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION


Working out all the permutations of these interviews hurts my brain.

MOO

I wonder why JC admits they were invited to Lori's weddings but didn't go to any of them? Jmo

 

[Nurse Gen]

My gut is that common things are common. An insecticide from a big box discount store or farm supply is a lot easier to come by and explain than something exotic. Sure, the malachite might be more symbolic, but I believe they were interested in expediency and deceit, not poetry. Alex may well have poisoned himself at someone else’s instruction for the greater good of the ‘gatherers’.

All good points, but the document that NP found on Ian's computer that was shared with LE specifically mentioned malachite as a "spiritual weapon" that could be administered in solution or used as a "healing balm"
I'm an RN and my practice is focused on behavioral aspects of health more than on toxicology so I'm really interested in hearing from someone with expertise in toxicology on the potential for detection of malachite poisoning on autopsy. There are journal articles on malachite poisoning caused by using malachite to paint face and body (part of a cultural celebration in parts of India) and also documented cases of malachite suicide but I can't find anything about detecting malachite poisoning on autopsy

 

[Nurse Gen]

DBM

 

[Diddian]

I wonder why JC admits they were invited to Lori's weddings but didn't go to any of them? Jmo

Better to attend the later collection of the swindle than the marriage to the mark.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I totally agree. It is getting increasingly hard to believe they are safe. But she has not actually had any opportunity to present her case yet. Once she got arrested the advice she would have received would be to not say a word for good reason. Even saying the kids are safe could be incriminating at this point. And if they truly are, she will get off with little more that a $1000 fine for lying to the police.

At this point, producing the kids is really no longer an option. But if they trul are safe, producing a video with Tylee saying Hi guys, we're good, my mom did not harm us while holding today's paper could be extremely embarrassing for many.

BBM
Yes, embarrassing for Lori, Chad, and anyone else that has helped them. NOT for the various LE entities or the state of Idaho, for many reasons. First, like it or not if you don't cooperate with CPS, there will be an investigation. If you are a fringe, anti-government law breaker, who doesn't like that fact and don't want to be held accountable, move to some other country. Children are not your property, they have a right to safety from adults who want to play deadly games with other family members and authorities. Secondly, what she has done (if they are still alive), is extremely abusive IMO and will take years if therapy for both of the kids, not to mention Colby, to recover from. She will not get custody back, so it's not like there won't still be a court process for Idaho to place them in shelter care. Third, it's not as if there aren't several (3-5) different death investigations happening right now that she is at the center of, so holding her for the extremely serious charge of deserting her children helps them keep tabs on her, and everyone who follows this case knows that. Moo.

 

[Tortoise]

I hope Ian has a tiny bit of sanity left and takes the baby and runs. Jmo.

I think he's stuffed now, assuming they charge Melani with BB's attempted murder and possibly preventing justice concerning the children's murders (imo). He must be complicit in the cover up - shifting from Melani said to Melani feared, and I was 'more affirmative' than I should have been. Plus the elaborate story-telling about his children loving Melani to conceal why they married after knowing each other a total of 9 days, with police waiting to hear from Melani who left with nowhere to go when the police came looking for the children. The Simpsons' Hallowe'en and cousin-making-meth stories were a monumental flop.

I think he's doing this to try to get his own children back. It could backfire.

MOO

 

[Nurse Gen]

I don't think malachite is toxic in terms of being fatal in any reliable way. I have looked for an SDS for malachite and found one. But it is a naturally occuring substance and only contains the general warning that it may be harmful if swallowed. The SDS says that research is very limited. The SDS for "sand" is similar. Most of the information about lethality is about "malachite green" which is a chemical unrelated to malachite except for the fact that is has a similar color. My guess is that any toxic effects from malachite are related to the body processing it into copper in the stomach. It is a copper carbonate hydroxide. It weathers into azurite when treated with acid, such as in the stomach. The International Gem Society lists its toxicity as high, but only because of its copper content. Azurite (and possibly malachite) have been used since antiquity as pigments and have likely been ingested by humans for millenia. If these minerals were toxic or useful poisons I think we would have all sorts of stories about them going back to ancient Greece.

The effects of copper poisoning are long term and mostly involve the liver and kidneys, not blood clots or heart disease. The physician can correct me if I am wrong but I don't think malachite/copper poisoning even comes close to filling Alex's symptoms.

In parts of Arizona natural malachite is extremely common and easy to find. If these people somehow wanted malachite they could have driven a few miles up the hill from Queen Creek AZ to Superior and harvested as much as they wanted from mile tailings and other sources. It's not at all rare in copper country. They could have collected tens of pounds in a day. I actually have a huge chunk of malachite covered rock as a door stop right now.

So I don't think malachite poisoning is at all likely. But malachite is easier to find in Arizona than pesticides!

Wow, that is so interesting that malachite is easy to find in Arizona. It is indeed the copper content that makes malachite poisonous. I agree that Alex's symptoms don't sound like the same thing as malachite poisoning but Tammy Daybell's sure do-especially the cough. It's definitely not the theory Occam's Razor would indicate but it's just so interesting that Lori was shopping for a malachite wedding ring just before TDs suspicious death and that the group considered malachite a spiritual weapon. My wild imagination leads me to picturing Chad telling Tammy that she's possessed and needs a healing balm application to fix it

 

[Breezie]

Cult mom Lori Vallow was sued by ex-husband for hiding her daughter | Daily Mail Online

Custody agreement details at:
'Cult mom' Lori Vallow had been sued by her ex-husband for hiding her daughter

Since she has hidden her daughter once before, does anyone think there is a sliver of hope that she is hiding them now? Her daughter is much older now but she might go along with this to take care of her brother. Would Lori do this just to spite the in-laws who might want custody of her son?