Interesting find. So, this report does make it seem that Lonnie had not been sexually assaulted. The fact that this child was described as "handsome " caught my eye. As did the statement that there appeared to be no indications of sexual attacks on his body " recently ". Is this just wording and syntax, or is it 50's speak for something else ? MOO
ID ID - Lonnie Jones, 13, Orofino, September 1951
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Interesting find. So, this report does make it seem that Lonnie had not been sexually assaulted. The fact that this child was described as "handsome " caught my eye. As did the statement that there appeared to be no indications of sexual attacks on his body " recently ". Is this just wording and syntax, or is it 50's speak for something else ? MOO
Robin, just wanted to say - you're a gem at digging these articles up. Cheers.
The knife in the alley is interesting. So now there's two bloody knives, the Masonic Hall one, and this one? It's also interesting that the killer made a 'false start' at cutting Lonnie's throat. There's two possible reasons for that:
- hesitation (the killer was unpractised at cutting throats and didn't get it right first time) or
- struggle (Lonnie moved before the killer could make a clean cut)
The third possibility is threat - cutting Lonnie to scare him - but I don't think this applies at that particular stage in the crime.
The bloody tissues --- if they belong to the killer it might indicate the killer perhaps cut himself, or used them to wipe his knife off. If he got blood on himself from a cut throat, a couple of tissues wouldn't do much. But he made sure to minimise that risk by cutting Lonnie's throat from behind (which says to me Liz B's thought that he knew how to cut throats is probably right).
Good point, Liz B, regarding the word 'recently' - odd thing to say, isn't it? Also, if Lonnie was NOT sexually molested -- what was the motive for this crime??? If a child rapist had the opportunity to molest a skinny, exhausted 12 year old he probably had bound and blindfolded, I seriously doubt the child's struggling would put him off.
What if rape was the NOT the motive? What motive does that leave?
I still want to know why Henry Savage was called in to run the investigation. Was he formerly an ace at solving child murders, in his FBI heyday?
I think Sheriff Holloway and the other officials involved did a fantastic job of investigating this crime. Sad to say, there's very few cold cases I've looked at where I can state that. It must have irked them horribly to never find his killer.
As for Orrin Wood -- to put things in perspective, his future wife was around 10 years old when Lonnie died. I want to know how he knew her, when they met, and when they married.
I want to know who Robert Cecil Wood is. He was born when Linda was 13, and is listed as Linda's family in every list I can find. He could be a brother or cousin, born 36 years after Orrin Cecil Wood, and somehow placed in Orrin's care and buried in the same part of the cemetery as Orrin - but you know? I kind of doubt that. Note, Linda is on the stone with Orrin but there's no death date for her - and she remarried. I doubt she's there.
Not to sleuth these people. But there's something majorly hinky with Orrin Wood, and I want to know what it is.
The knife in the alley is interesting. So now there's two bloody knives, the Masonic Hall one, and this one? It's also interesting that the killer made a 'false start' at cutting Lonnie's throat. There's two possible reasons for that:
- hesitation (the killer was unpractised at cutting throats and didn't get it right first time) or
- struggle (Lonnie moved before the killer could make a clean cut)
The third possibility is threat - cutting Lonnie to scare him - but I don't think this applies at that particular stage in the crime.
The bloody tissues --- if they belong to the killer it might indicate the killer perhaps cut himself, or used them to wipe his knife off. If he got blood on himself from a cut throat, a couple of tissues wouldn't do much. But he made sure to minimise that risk by cutting Lonnie's throat from behind (which says to me Liz B's thought that he knew how to cut throats is probably right).
Good point, Liz B, regarding the word 'recently' - odd thing to say, isn't it? Also, if Lonnie was NOT sexually molested -- what was the motive for this crime??? If a child rapist had the opportunity to molest a skinny, exhausted 12 year old he probably had bound and blindfolded, I seriously doubt the child's struggling would put him off.
What if rape was the NOT the motive? What motive does that leave?
I still want to know why Henry Savage was called in to run the investigation. Was he formerly an ace at solving child murders, in his FBI heyday?
I think Sheriff Holloway and the other officials involved did a fantastic job of investigating this crime. Sad to say, there's very few cold cases I've looked at where I can state that. It must have irked them horribly to never find his killer.
As for Orrin Wood -- to put things in perspective, his future wife was around 10 years old when Lonnie died. I want to know how he knew her, when they met, and when they married.
I want to know who Robert Cecil Wood is. He was born when Linda was 13, and is listed as Linda's family in every list I can find. He could be a brother or cousin, born 36 years after Orrin Cecil Wood, and somehow placed in Orrin's care and buried in the same part of the cemetery as Orrin - but you know? I kind of doubt that. Note, Linda is on the stone with Orrin but there's no death date for her - and she remarried. I doubt she's there.
Not to sleuth these people. But there's something majorly hinky with Orrin Wood, and I want to know what it is.
Ausgirl,
I had read that LE believed that the killer had wiped the knife on some leaves nearby ? How long was Orrin Wood drinking before he set off home that night ? The clumsines with the knife could be that his reflexes were off, and also he had never done anything like this before.
If there wa no sexual assault, I cannot imagine what the motive was. Wouldn't he have known Lonnie ? Such a small community and all ? Wonder if he propositioned Lonnie, and Lonnie made fun of him etc ?
Liz, if rape wasn't the motive, then maybe somebody wanted him gone for a different reason.
But what reason is there to want such a young boy dead? Was he in the way of something? Did he know something/ see something that had the killer worried? Was it simply a 'thrill-kill'?
Poor Lonnie. He should have grown up, and had a chance to live his life. I want whoever did this caught, or at least named as the killer. I think Lonnie deserves that justice. I really, really do.
But what reason is there to want such a young boy dead? Was he in the way of something? Did he know something/ see something that had the killer worried? Was it simply a 'thrill-kill'?
Poor Lonnie. He should have grown up, and had a chance to live his life. I want whoever did this caught, or at least named as the killer. I think Lonnie deserves that justice. I really, really do.
Sorry - thinking out loud again.
Reading one of the articles posted earlier, re how Lonnie was found - the police found 'one huge stain' of blood, partially washed away by rain, only 5 ft from 'the bluff' (side of the road?) and another where Lonnie lay.
If that IS only 5ft from the side of the road -- think about that. The killer wasted NO time. He put Lonnie out of the car (if he had one) and cut his throat, right away. Maybe that was the first cut, with the 2nd killing Lonnie lower on the bank?
Looks more like an execution than a sex crime, IMO, at least at that point of the situation. Who knows what went on before that, though.
The doctor who made a 'preliminary examination' of Lonnie said it "appeared as though Lonnie was sexually assaulted" -- but on closer examination by the other doctor they flew in from Boise, it was proved he wasn't raped.
I'd love to know why a doctor would look at Lonnie and think he had been molested when he hadn't been.
Was Lonnie's death staged to make him look like a rape victim?
The same report said Lonnie's fingers were 'skinned almost to the bone'....
It's way too hot here today to keep the computer on! So more thoughts on that later
Reading one of the articles posted earlier, re how Lonnie was found - the police found 'one huge stain' of blood, partially washed away by rain, only 5 ft from 'the bluff' (side of the road?) and another where Lonnie lay.
If that IS only 5ft from the side of the road -- think about that. The killer wasted NO time. He put Lonnie out of the car (if he had one) and cut his throat, right away. Maybe that was the first cut, with the 2nd killing Lonnie lower on the bank?
Looks more like an execution than a sex crime, IMO, at least at that point of the situation. Who knows what went on before that, though.
The doctor who made a 'preliminary examination' of Lonnie said it "appeared as though Lonnie was sexually assaulted" -- but on closer examination by the other doctor they flew in from Boise, it was proved he wasn't raped.
I'd love to know why a doctor would look at Lonnie and think he had been molested when he hadn't been.
Was Lonnie's death staged to make him look like a rape victim?
The same report said Lonnie's fingers were 'skinned almost to the bone'....
It's way too hot here today to keep the computer on! So more thoughts on that later
" Fingers skinned almost to the bone " might well indicate defensive wounds, from using the hands to deflect a knife attack. MOO in this case,it sounds savage and somewhat prolonged MOO Where would this attack have taken place ?
The no recent sexual assault comment could mean that this child had been penetrated previously, but not at the time that he was killed. ( Graphic,sorry). MOO
Looks like a tiny bit of the picture is being filled in...MOO
Robin Hood
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Two things jump out to me here http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...r+weippe&hl=en
Pierce and meat cutter.
Did meat cutters wear straw hats ? Maybe they did if they worked in a store. What time did they start work ? The London meat markets here start work either very early or work nights.
http://www.smithfieldmarket.com//content/visitor_information
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'Fingers skinned almost to the bone' Could Lonnie have tried to escape and opened a car door while it was moving only to fall and scrape his fingers on the road before being pulled back by his waistband/belt ?
Pierce and meat cutter.
Did meat cutters wear straw hats ? Maybe they did if they worked in a store. What time did they start work ? The London meat markets here start work either very early or work nights.
http://www.smithfieldmarket.com//content/visitor_information
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'Fingers skinned almost to the bone' Could Lonnie have tried to escape and opened a car door while it was moving only to fall and scrape his fingers on the road before being pulled back by his waistband/belt ?
Robin Hood
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I would love to know when Lonnie first lived with his G.parents. Right from the start or was he sent back there after a spell with his mum and step father.
Maybe Lonnie was starting to say things that somebody didn't like.
Its so hard to second guess what no signs of a 'violent' assault might mean.
Especially with the first examiner coming up with the opposite conclusion.
I know that mutterings and sugestions about family intrigue and Lonnie' knowing too much' have always been part of the legend.
But to me ...if you wanted to silence a 12 year old boy there is only about
a billion square miles of woods right around Peirce and Weippe to make him disappear in.
He lived in Weippe if it were a relative why go to the logistical trouble of intercepting him the one night he's trying to hitchike back from Orofino?
I try to keep an open mind but to me this just has sex crime written all over it.
Obviously the initial investigators thought so too since they were refering to the killer as a 'deviant' from the start .
Maybe the second examiner didnt want to stigmatize Lonnie as the victim of a homosexual assault.
Or maybe his killer was too drunk to get it up,if youll excuse the phraseology.
Or maybe with a knife to his throat Lonnie couldnt resist and a 'violent' assault wasnt nessecary.
Who knows? Thats one of the interesting things about reading these contemporary accounts is not only sifting for clues but reading between the lines of 1951 sensibilities.
That business about his fingers is just disturbing to me because it suggests a number of scenarios and none of them are good.
And your right Ausgirl that poor kid deserved better then what happened to him.
As with other cases I try to visualize how someone could do something like this and just get up the next day and go on with their lives....I just cant wrap my mind around it.
scriptgirl
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I don't believe Lonnie wasn't raped. I just don't.
Amazing Case.. took me close to allmost all weekend reading and investigating this case..
What is so great is how good and wonderfull every one of you worked together and now we got a good solid case to work with.
My hat is off to every one of you for such a wonderfull job.
The dump site is strange to myself. I live around Logging Operations and understand all the dead end road's and isolated places and roads due to logging..
Even if Lonnie was not raped I still feel this is a sexual base case.
What is so great is how good and wonderfull every one of you worked together and now we got a good solid case to work with.
My hat is off to every one of you for such a wonderfull job.
The dump site is strange to myself. I live around Logging Operations and understand all the dead end road's and isolated places and roads due to logging..
Even if Lonnie was not raped I still feel this is a sexual base case.
katydid23
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That is a great point about the logging roads. They are very isolated and rugged and if a logger really wanted to hide a victim he would be able to do so quite easily. So, either it was a logger, and he wanted Lonnie to be found, OR it wasn't a logger at all. imo
I know what you mean...but he was found fully clothed. I wonder if there were any semen traces on him or his clothing ? It could have been that his killer could not rape him ( maybe too drunk to do it,or for some other reason ).
I wonder if the logger actually knew Lonnie ? I cannot figure the level of savagery here...
Kline,
Did you ever hear anthing about what Lonnie "knew too much " about ? It sounds interesting.
Okay! It's cooler now, thank goodness. AND - I finally have high speed internet. OMG! Its so fantastic.
Anyhow, I was tootling around some of the older reports linked in this thread, and a couple things struck me:
- Stepdad was a meat man.
- Stepdad reported last seeing Lonnie at a cafe in Orofino at around 4.30 (from memory) that afternoon, which makes him among the last persons to see Lonnie alive.
- The papers get his mother's name wrong an awful lot. "Eleanor Manor", "Mrs A. B. Jones". They don't get anyone else's name wrong, so much. And "AB Jones" is one hell of a typo?
And I've been looking a LOT of killings where blindfolds were involved. This is what I have been finding:
- Lots of executions, many tied to kidnappings.
- Clearly insane people - many of whom did not rape their victim.
- Parents who killed their own kids/spousal murders.
Anyhow, I was tootling around some of the older reports linked in this thread, and a couple things struck me:
- Stepdad was a meat man.
- Stepdad reported last seeing Lonnie at a cafe in Orofino at around 4.30 (from memory) that afternoon, which makes him among the last persons to see Lonnie alive.
- The papers get his mother's name wrong an awful lot. "Eleanor Manor", "Mrs A. B. Jones". They don't get anyone else's name wrong, so much. And "AB Jones" is one hell of a typo?
And I've been looking a LOT of killings where blindfolds were involved. This is what I have been finding:
- Lots of executions, many tied to kidnappings.
- Clearly insane people - many of whom did not rape their victim.
- Parents who killed their own kids/spousal murders.
Robin Hood
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Aus, the top link (that now doesn't work) alluded to the step dad working in Pierce (where a knife was found) and his job. Then again, what a chance meeting, no one could predict it surely ?
Robin Hood
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Kline, have you managed to find out where the case files are held ?
I was hoping Lonnies clothes have been kept too. If the murderer left any semen it's possible for it to still be tested.
I was hoping Lonnies clothes have been kept too. If the murderer left any semen it's possible for it to still be tested.
O.K. now keep in mind I think this complete cow product, that I heard from an aunt(since deceased) of mine when I was a kid while she was in her cups talking about this case...the uphot was that Lonnie overheard relatives planning to bump off either his grandmother or other elder relative for some sort of inheritance so he was killed to shut him up.
Keep in mind my aunt,God love her would have only been a kid when this happened and was known to never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
My Father years later told me very much the same thing but he probably heard it from my Aunt.
Also keep in mind most of you here in this forum know FAR more about the facts of this case then im sure 95% of the locals around here then and now and certainly know more about it then my drunk Aunt im sure.
Knowing the facts no doubt you can see many problems with their scenario.:crazy:
Its funny you should ask that,I spoke with two different aquaintances in L.E. this weekend.
One told me he was 'certain' the Sherrif's Dept. no longer had the case files from that long ago citing various purges of old records over the years and the other said he was 'certain' they would still have 'whatever the Feds didnt take and 600 dept employee's havent stolen over the last 60 years when they retired as souvineers ...Ill check on it for you when I get a chance..."
Having been through this before I would like at this time to post a disclaimer that I am not responsible for anyone holding their breath until he gets back to me.
But who knows? Maybe Im due for a break in this search.
And yes Lonnie's cloths would still yeild DNA though back then they may have been destroyed by the funeral home as im sure after being bloodsoaked and laying by the river for days in August...well you can imagine.
Oh thats right,its Summer below the equater isnt it? It sure isnt here!
I agree his Stepfather is certainly an interesting POI.
Being a meat man and Lonnie essentially being done in like preparing a hog for butchering.
and being one of the last to see him that day(that were aware of so far.)
And that blindfold business is very intriguing....because it isnt much of stretch to think that his killer needed to bllindfold Lonnie because he knew him and couldnt take seeing his eyes.
Then again it is very much part and parcel with an 'execution' scenario and marching someone to the edge of the road and cutting their throat from ear to ear definitly qualifies as a cold blooded execution.
And we dont know how much the manner of Lonnies death was part of the killers fantasy or if he envisioned that end from the get go or whether it just ended up happening that way.
There is also the fetish angle of it and there is little doubt Lonnies killer would certainly qualify as a sick puppy.
I keep going around and around with the blindfold.
One might think it was to keep Lonnie form identifying the killer or leading authorities back to where he was assaulted but surely he saw his killer face to face when he initially encountered him,it would also mean Lonnies death was not a foregone conclusion in the killers mind...