IDI Theories (intruder did it)

[Whisperer]

Since the younger child was having nightmares that night, this also lends to the premise that it might not have been a nightmare at all but fear of what was going on inside the house. The perp may have yelled to the kids to "go to your room" and "stay there" till I tell you you can come out".

Of course, DB, in all her wisdom, didn't want the boys interviewed and of course, she didn't want to upset them by asking them what they saw or heard. I call bull carp on that one.

 

[Whisperer]

I bet LE wanted to ask DB about the clothing they found. This would be significant if she was abducted. The clothing could help identify her. I don't think LE believes she was abducted and they realize it doesn't matter what is on the poster because one or both of the parents know where Lisa is and it is doubtful any stranger will find her.

 

[hambirg]

I bet LE wanted to ask DB about the clothing they found. This would be significant if she was abducted. The clothing could help identify her. I don't think LE believes she was abducted and they realize it doesn't matter what is on the poster because one or both of the parents know where Lisa is and it is doubtful any stranger will find her.

The posters put out by the parents still say Lisa was last seen at 10:30pm. The only poster I have seen with the correct time is the NCMEC one.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

that was from the early days of the case (oct 4-6)...

re: the status of the case since then: "police still have no idea what happened to lisa irwin" (oct 12)... following this date were the 19 hr search of the house/property and bringing in a cadaver dog which alerted inside the house -- all of which is quite telling where this case status sits with LE. some things just don't need to be said.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...earch-home-with-metal-detectors-investigation

the article linked in your post doesn't update the status of the article I linked where LE is quoted as saying...[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It appears the suspect entered/exited through a bedroom window," authorities said in a statement. "Evidence at the scene leads police to believe the child has been abducted."
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
From the oct 12 article in your post spokesman Young is quoted as saying...



"It's fair to assume a small amount of frustration on behalf of everybody," he said. "But it doesn't change the direction at all

 

[jadejazzkayla]

No, the fact is LE said (past tense) that on Oct 6th. . .before they had even finished investigating the window. . .etc. . .ad naseum.

<modsnip> . .it does not say that evidence at the scene leads police to believe that. . . .they hadn't even thoroughly investigated the scene yet. That's what the believed on Oct 6th because that's what the parents had told them and they didn't have anything else to go on yet.

yes. the fact is LE said the Evidence at the scene leads police to believe the child has been abducted...

the article does not say they believed this because that's what parents told them - the statement was made based on evidence.

 

[Allusonz]

It doesn't matter what is said on the posters. What is important is the picture.

SBM

I believe that is why they use age progression photos as children especially change so rapidly.

 

[vlpate]

My post was asking for a link to support a statement posted as fact and perhaps it is only the posters opinion and not fact.

As I posted...the fact is LE says evidence at the scene leads police to believe the child has been abducted.

LE are not saying this now. When this was said, they were trying not to alienate the parents that had stopped talking to them. Why? Because JI stormed out of KCPD and said he'd had enough. DB was failing a lie detector test, so the "evidence" statement seems a bit disingenuous in retrospect, ynwim?

The only evidence in the first days would have been a window left open by Deborah
Lights left on by Deborah
A door left unlocked by ...... possibly Deborah
Three missing cell phones last seen by ..... Deborah.

What evidence could they have had, really? Zip, zilch, nada.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

this thread is for intruder theories.

 

[Twelve of One]

I noticed a news story today, a baby kidnapped at 8 months has been found, and is now 8 years old. He was kidnapped by his babysitter, who was a suspect at the time but was cleared. Turns out she had him all this time and sounds like she was not treating him well, sadly. The boy will be reunited with his mother.

I don't know the circumstances of that kidnapping, but I've thought all along an intruder took Lisa. It's rare, but it does happen.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3&pLid=143612

 

[RANCH]

additionally-- in the case of miguel, the baby was at the sitter's apartment so technically there was no "intruder". nothing similar to lisa's case at all imo.

I may be wrong but I believe that the OP was only trying to say that there are people out in the world willing to take someone else's small child and keep them as their own.

 

[Twelve of One]

Thanks RANCH, you are exactly right. I specifically said in my post that I do not know the circumstances of the boy's disappearance. Also, there is no babysitter in the Lisa Irwin case. I am not trying to say the two cases are exactly the same.

Finding a missing child years later is a rare but happy occasion. Since I think Lisa Irwin was taken by an intruder, I am hopeful she's still alive and might be found. I hope so.

 

[cityslick]

LE are not saying this now. When this was said, they were trying not to alienate the parents that had stopped talking to them. Why? Because JI stormed out of KCPD and said he'd had enough. DB was failing a lie detector test, so the "evidence" statement seems a bit disingenuous in retrospect, ynwim?

The only evidence in the first days would have been a window left open by Deborah
Lights left on by Deborah
A door left unlocked by ...... possibly Deborah
Three missing cell phones last seen by ..... Deborah.

What evidence could they have had, really? Zip, zilch, nada.

BBM

LE is not saying anything now. They have made little quotes here and there about 'nothing has changed' (specifically about the timeline) and even that has been dismissed. I know one thing for sure, I'm not a mind reader so I don't pretend to know what goes on in the minds of investigators when absolutely zero comments are made about the direction of the case.

 

[cityslick]

I may be wrong but I believe that the OP was only trying to say that there are people out in the world willing to take someone else's small child and keep them as their own.

The OP's story also proves that statistics only go so far and that even if it's in the minority of cases that a child is taken/endangered by a non-parent, it does still occur.

 

[vlpate]

BBM

LE is not saying anything now. They have made little quotes here and there about 'nothing has changed' (specifically about the timeline) and even that has been dismissed. I know one thing for sure, I'm not a mind reader so I don't pretend to know what goes on in the minds of investigators when absolutely zero comments are made about the direction of the case.

BEM: What has been dismissed about the timeline?

 

[cityslick]

BEM: What has been dismissed about the timeline?

There has recently been a debate that some believe that LE doesn't follow or believe the current timeline that has been established (last seen at 6:40pm) to which Deann has asked SY about that and his answer was that nothing has changed. It's in the 'last time lisa was seen' thread.

 

[hambirg]

yes. the fact is LE said the Evidence at the scene leads police to believe the child has been abducted...

the article does not say they believed this because that's what parents told them - the statement was made based on evidence.

And tell me what evidence LE would have had by the morning of Oct 6th? They hadn't even investigated the window yet.

Before Oct 6th the parents are still talking about how an intruder came in the window, but on the 6th this is what they had to say about what LE told them after they looked at the window. . .

Q: And there is no sign of forced entry or was there?

JI: Um, they don't, they don't really know yet. Um, the screen on the window that was open was broken. But, the police are telling us that that's not a point of entry and I don't know why but um, they're just saying there's no signs. The front door, they're saying the front door was probably left unlocked.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...deborah-bradley_n_1000232.html?ref=lisa-irwin

And then on the 7th we have the parents are saying. . . .

JJ: Could somebody have fit through the frame where it was popped? You said it was popped?

JI: No.

DB: I, nothing makes sense.

JJ: Could someone have fit through that?

DB: If they, if they had removed it all the way, why would they remove it and push it halfway back? That doesn’t make sense so.

JJ: So based on the condition it was in, could someone have gone through that? That you saw?

JI: No.

So are we suppose to believe at that point, that LE still believes an intruder came through the window?

 

[redheadedgal]

of course babies are kidnapped... and the phenomenon is statistically rare as was mentioned. how many of those homes had a cadaver dog hit? none? hmmm.

gotta wonder why an alleged invisible stealth-like intruder is believed in, yet a real de facto actual cadaver dog hit is easily dismissed. it's either one or the other... intruder or cadaver dog alert. can't be both!

 

[cityslick]

of course babies are kidnapped... and the phenomenon is statistically rare as was mentioned. how many of those homes had a cadaver dog hit? none? hmmm.

gotta wonder why an alleged invisible stealth-like intruder is believed in, yet a real de facto actual cadaver dog hit is easily dismissed. it's either one or the other... intruder or cadaver dog alert. can't be both!

The dog hit is relevant. It isn't proof. You choose to believe it as proof. Others do not. The dog hit debate is always going to go in that circle until more info/evidence comes to light that leads one way or the other.

 

[nursebeeme]

peeps, this thread is for people who would like to discuss IDI theories

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

The dog hit is relevant. It isn't proof. You choose to believe it as proof. Others do not. The dog hit debate is always going to go in that circle until more info/evidence comes to light that leads one way or the other.

ITA: Since RR has never answered my question about JB, I won't state my opinion as a fact, however, someone who is training HRD dogs could have access to training aids that would cause a dog to hit without a dead body ever being in the home. :what: