Idle Thought

[coloradokares]

Has anyone ever heard of shared psychosis?

Just spitballing here. A shared psychosis is where one partner in a relationship is mentally ill and the other is so devoted to them, they start to suffer from it too. Let's say that I see little green men (I hope Don Bradley isn't reading this!). My girlfriend loves me so much she sees them too.

Yes our son came close to describing that till he got help of his own so he could be a supporter and advocate vs an enabler .

 

[BBB167893]

Good, I hated to think I wasted that effort!

 

[Eagle1]

You mean sort of like "Stockholm Syndrome"?

And relatives may resist for years a mud-slinging relative who's trying to get a vulnerable relative disinherited but eventually they may give up and act like they believe him? Like a mental virus spreading?

It happens. And although they were involved in a coverup for someone or someones, I'm not saying it happened to Patsy and John, because we could never prove that. LE may have thought of the possibility but didn't use it.

Patsy was famous for old-fashioned southern good manners, never saying anything bad behind anyone's back, which takes some strong tongue-controll, until asked by LE right after her child was killed if she might suspect one of the friends.

I'd probably say yes too in such circumstances! I know an elderly man grieving the loss of his wife who says the doctors killed her, nothing on which to base that, just a need to strike out defensively, just one of the normal symptoms of grieving.

We've said some people with cancer go crazy, but actually MOST don't. The best of kids can be bratty and crazy-making at times, been there, but PR was even more easy-going than most of us, and things were going well, nice family plans in the works. We don't talk much about the Rave Party that night two doors away, because it almost had to be someone JonBenet knew, or maybe not, but there's just dozens of possibilities other than PR. I would be just as happy as you, if there was real proof, not just grasping at speculative straws, that it was her and the case was solved. Reality...it isn't over till it's over.

The sleuthing could be so much more exciting if broadened a lot. Ever watched that red-head guy on A&E named Horatio Caine or something like that? I wonder how he would approach a similar crime.

 

[UKGuy]

Has anyone ever heard of shared psychosis?

Just spitballing here. A shared psychosis is where one partner in a relationship is mentally ill and the other is so devoted to them, they start to suffer from it too. Let's say that I see little green men (I hope Don Bradley isn't reading this!). My girlfriend loves me so much she sees them too.

SuperDave,

Could be, they say some famous artists, had girlfriends and wives who shared their alternate take on reality.

Then there is Eva Braun etc.

When one partner is psychotic the other partner has to find creative ways to defend against adopting the others delusional thinking, in some males this can lead to stonewalling and lots of smiling since it seems the safest course of action, does that remind you of someone?


.

 

[Toltec]

My guess is that Patsy suffered from Borderline Personality Disorder with Narcissistic tendencies. Some borderlines do have brief psychotic episodes....so who knows?

Patsy could be charming but she could also be downright mean. One friend talks of the time she critiqued a pamphlet Patsy had put together...and Patsy not speaking to her for over a year.

 

[JMO8778]

My guess is that Patsy suffered from Borderline Personality Disorder with Narcissistic tendencies. Some borderlines do have brief psychotic episodes....so who knows?

Patsy could be charming but she could also be downright mean. One friend talks of the time she critiqued a pamphlet Patsy had put together...and Patsy not speaking to her for over a year.

good post.as far as removing her wig,which was on another thread..I have to say that got her some attention.and esp. the way she acted after the murder about it..like 'look at me,im so nice,i did that,look what a nice person I am !' o my...that's as bad as that sicko letter she put in DOI...about how someone thought how she was soo wonderful @@.The fact she felt she had to announce it to the world says a lot about her..why not just keep it private,if she's all that great a person;her opinion of herself should be the only one that matters.how narci is that???!!!

 

[rashomon]

Anyone have any thoughts on my post?

Imo what Pasty wrote about her premonition is an attempt on her part to exonerate herself. For if it was all 'meant to happen' anyway, if it was predetermined (by some transcendent power) that JB's life was going to end, something which Patsy's subconscious mind 'sensed', then this makes Patsy a mere instrument in the completion of JB's 'fate'.

 

[Ames]

Imo what Pasty wrote about her premonition is an attempt on her part to exonerate herself. For if it was all 'meant to happen' anyway, if it was predetermined (by some transcendent power) that JB's life was going to end, something which Patsy's subconscious mind 'sensed', then this makes Patsy a mere instrument in the completion of JB's 'fate'.

I believe that Patsy, up until she died...convinced herself that she had no part in JB's murder. I believe that she told herself that, so many times...that she started believing it.

 

[Eagle1]

2-5-07 Taking a break from Virus Aggravations

It's so great to get back to you guys for a few minutes. See, I'm not completely crazy yet. Hope I don't drive any of you over the edge.

But who among us hasn't even gotten offended and quit speaking to someone? And still we were considered normal, by everyone but the offender. Maybe the woman apparently bragging about having critiqued Patsy's booklet really was jealous, mean, and crude about it for all we know, thought she could write a better pamphlet. Happens to the very best of us, practically "every day".

Certainly Patsy knew, whether she did anything or not, and I don't claim to know that, she'd be in the hot seat about this. Sure she was trying to exonerate herself in advance. Who wouldn't? These things are probably in fact the best proof that she was NOT abnormal. Sure I'll eat my words if it turns out eventually I'm wrong, not to worry about that. We're people of good will, or we would not be here, not competing with each other.

 

[coloradokares]

2-5-07 Taking a break from Virus Aggravations

It's so great to get back to you guys for a few minutes. See, I'm not completely crazy yet. Hope I don't drive any of you over the edge.

But who among us hasn't even gotten offended and quit speaking to someone? And still we were considered normal, by everyone but the offender. Maybe the woman apparently bragging about having critiqued Patsy's booklet really was jealous, mean, and crude about it for all we know, thought she could write a better pamphlet. Happens to the very best of us, practically "every day".

Certainly Patsy knew, whether she did anything or not, and I don't claim to know that, she'd be in the hot seat about this. Sure she was trying to exonerate herself in advance. Who wouldn't? These things are probably in fact the best proof that she was NOT abnormal. Sure I'll eat my words if it turns out eventually I'm wrong, not to worry about that. We're people of good will, or we would not be here, not competing with each other.

If only that were the sole example . However Patsy had a reputation of charming and sweet as honeysuckle off the vine. Unless and until you had the slightest criticism, or forgot to give her all due credit and then some, or heaven forbid worse than anything tried to suggest a better way to do it. This is not a emptly criticisim .....Her dance instructor she hired for JonBenet finally had to tell Patsy leave the instruction to me. Patsy was asked to remain in an outer room. Finally Patsy went in and informed the instructor that was not acceptable and was there with her suggestions for the duration of instruction. This is in one of the books although it was common knowledge amongst those who knew Patsy that she along with the instructors opinion and it left and impression. Even interviews with the police she went from charming to saying Buster your going down the WRONG ROAD and had lost her charm when they reminded her of things that appeared inconsistent. So .....we are left to question was that indeed part of her personality. Or ananomaly......I guess that is for you to decide for yourself. But either way. It was what it was and when her daughter is found dead in the home it at least has to be weighed and considered by those in a postion to determined by the LE involved in this matter exactly how JonBenet was killed. Then when personal friends indicate that it was exactly like Nedra .....It starts to create an image. It only sheds a bit of light on who Patsy was. Its that psycological autopsy that Rashomon suggests would be interesting to look at or formulate. That does not place the smoking gun in Patsy's hand. What placed the smoking gun there was the fibers of her clothing under the tape. Intertwined in the knot of the garrote and the opinion that she cannot be removed from suspicion of being the author of the ransom note.

 

[Eagle1]

................ This is not a emptly criticisim .....Her dance instructor she hired for JonBenet finally had to tell Patsy leave the instruction to me. Patsy was asked to remain in an outer room. Finally Patsy went in and informed the instructor that was not acceptable and was there with her suggestions for the duration of instruction. .............

Even interviews with the police she went from charming to saying Buster your going down the WRONG ROAD and had lost her charm when they reminded her of things that appeared inconsistent. So .....we are left to question was that indeed part of her personality. Or ananomaly......I guess that is for you to decide for yourself. .......

But either way. It was what it was and when her daughter is found dead in the home it at least has to be weighed and considered by those in a postion to determined by the LE involved in this matter exactly how JonBenet was killed.......

Its that psycological autopsy that Rashomon suggests would be interesting to look at or formulate.

That does not place the smoking gun in Patsy's hand. What placed the smoking gun there was the fibers of her clothing under the tape. Intertwined in the knot of the garrote and the opinion that she cannot be removed from suspicion of being the author of the ransom note.

I'm taking the liberty of inserting some spaces into the quote of your post, to isolate what I believe are your main points, and to make for much easier reading.

It's all in how our own personalities INTERPRET all this. Whether we're "hawks or doves". To me the fibers and note you cite in your last paragraph to NOT place the smoking gun in PR's hand at all.

Eventually if it turns out my "good will" is misplaced, fine, I'll be as happy as anyone that the case is finally solved, if it really is.

I believe PR was removed from suspicion as much as any of the suspects about writing the note, and fibers very obviously could be planted, especially if some perp knew LE tactics, what they'd look for. We've discussed in other threads and at other forums that ST I believe said he and a partner were so surprised when a snapshot of an open dictionary fell out of the evidence envelope. I think some didn't agree with what I'd heard or read, that no dictionary had been at the crime scene when it was processed. I don't remember the source of that, sorry.

If it's true the dictionary hadn't been at the original crime scene, was added clandestinely, then it COULD mean the killer is in LE, doesn't definitely mean that, as far as we know, just COULD. If not the killer, maybe a cop trying to close the case faster thought that might work. You know Burke wouldn't have left that so his Dad would know he was questionning whether there was incest, and that the adults are too educated and shrewd to have left it there. They've really been spotlighted but have held up all this time.

Sure that's unusual about her supervising the dance instructer. Most of us wouldn't dream of acting like that, too intense, but we all know some exremely bossy people, just a quirk that doesn't prove murder, not by a long shot.

Petty criticizms don't solve murder cases as complicated as this one. There were other suspects, even among the friends, and McSanta was almost arrested twice, heart attack or no heart attack. I don't know if LE investigated about that celtic harp he owned, with notches on it for dead little "friends" of his.

There was no evidence that strong against Patsy. Her choice of friends seems to be appalling, and JR was no doubt criticized after the body was found for allowing something or other, said "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry", allegedly. Nedra also was quoted saying JonBenet wasn't molested MUCH. So a lot of them knew whatever was going on. It wasn't just the household. You can't just ignore all this and concentrate on petty things that prove nothing. That harp is hard evidence. Don't know if it means they were having a celtic human sacrifice ritual, or a variation of same. Those can be googled. Traditionally the victim was fed a last meal, maybe a favorite food and something green, if I remember correctly after so long.

Melody Stanton's husband heard metal hitting on or scraping on concrete, which pretty much pinpoints the time of death, and confirms that the scream wasn't just a dream. If she'd been awakened at another time, say 2 in the afternoon, it would have been a dream, because nobody died at that time, and nobody would have screamed. She maybe felt bad about their not doing anything to help, assuming the parents would also hear everything and take care of it, and rationalized that maybe she was awakened by just a dream. Her husband's testimony I think changes that.

 

[Solace]

I believe that Patsy, up until she died...convinced herself that she had no part in JB's murder. I believe that she told herself that, so many times...that she started believing it.

Ames, I agree with you. I believe it was an "accident" - some accident. But it was not meant to kill her and Patsy said to herself "I did not mean to kill her, so I am not going down for something I did not do". And she was able to live with that, besides I have to take care of Berke.

 

[coloradokares]

I'm taking the liberty of inserting some spaces into the quote of your post, to isolate what I believe are your main points, and to make for much easier reading.

It's all in how our own personalities INTERPRET all this. Whether we're "hawks or doves". To me the fibers and note you cite in your last paragraph to NOT place the smoking gun in PR's hand at all.

Eventually if it turns out my "good will" is misplaced, fine, I'll be as happy as anyone that the case is finally solved, if it really is.

I believe PR was removed from suspicion as much as any of the suspects about writing the note, and fibers very obviously could be planted, especially if some perp knew LE tactics, what they'd look for. We've discussed in other threads and at other forums that ST I believe said he and a partner were so surprised when a snapshot of an open dictionary fell out of the evidence envelope. I think some didn't agree with what I'd heard or read, that no dictionary had been at the crime scene when it was processed. I don't remember the source of that, sorry.

If it's true the dictionary hadn't been at the original crime scene, was added clandestinely, then it COULD mean the killer is in LE, doesn't definitely mean that, as far as we know, just COULD. If not the killer, maybe a cop trying to close the case faster thought that might work. You know Burke wouldn't have left that so his Dad would know he was questionning whether there was incest, and that the adults are too educated and shrewd to have left it there. They've really been spotlighted but have held up all this time.

Sure that's unusual about her supervising the dance instructer. Most of us wouldn't dream of acting like that, too intense, but we all know some exremely bossy people, just a quirk that doesn't prove murder, not by a long shot.

Petty criticizms don't solve murder cases as complicated as this one. There were other suspects, even among the friends, and McSanta was almost arrested twice, heart attack or no heart attack. I don't know if LE investigated about that celtic harp he owned, with notches on it for dead little "friends" of his.

There was no evidence that strong against Patsy. Her choice of friends seems to be appalling, and JR was no doubt criticized after the body was found for allowing something or other, said "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry", allegedly. Nedra also was quoted saying JonBenet wasn't molested MUCH. So a lot of them knew whatever was going on. It wasn't just the household. You can't just ignore all this and concentrate on petty things that prove nothing. That harp is hard evidence. Don't know if it means they were having a celtic human sacrifice ritual, or a variation of same. Those can be googled. Traditionally the victim was fed a last meal, maybe a favorite food and something green, if I remember correctly after so long.

Melody Stanton's husband heard metal hitting on or scraping on concrete, which pretty much pinpoints the time of death, and confirms that the scream wasn't just a dream. If she'd been awakened at another time, say 2 in the afternoon, it would have been a dream, because nobody died at that time, and nobody would have screamed. She maybe felt bad about their not doing anything to help, assuming the parents would also hear everything and take care of it, and rationalized that maybe she was awakened by just a dream. Her husband's testimony I think changes that.

The fibers twisted into the knot of the garrote could not have been planted as they would have had to been tied into it to be as they were. Other than that .....you are certainly entitle to believe whatever it is you choose. I won't be blown away to a dustbunny under the bed of life if they ever find and prove beyond perponderance an intruder .....But I am not holding my breath waiting for the reasons I named. I am ok with agreeing to disagree.

 

[BBB167893]

You mean sort of like "Stockholm Syndrome"?

That's a stretch, but okay.

When one partner is psychotic the other partner has to find creative ways to defend against adopting the others delusional thinking, in some males this can lead to stonewalling and lots of smiling since it seems the safest course of action, does that remind you of someone?

I'm afraid it does.