If someone gave Casey a dead Caylee

[Curious Me]

Interesting exercise trying to imagine someone gives Casey a dead Caylee.

There is really nothing to fit into a made-up plot after considering phone and computer activity records, as well as the exact testing, evidence, and plant studies done on the remains that really narrow down the timeline to when the crime most likely happened.

I think it is great that LE managed to narrow the timeline down so closely even though Caylee was not even reported missing for 31 days, then not found all those months when Casey played psychic "she's close, I can feel her". The timeline narrows it down to Caylee was in Casey's care when she went missing. The script, protecting her family? Are you kidding? Nothing will fly especially when you start adding in a whole lot of other facts like smelly car, tattoo, the parties, the thieving, and much much more. The Defense team must realize how boxed in they are.

 

[seagull65]

I think the defense team know how boxed in they are, but I'm not sure Casey knows. I'm really not. I'm still not sure she gets it. JMO

 

[Curious Me]

seagull65, I know what you mean. Casey almost seems like a victim of her own spite and stubborness.

I don't know what more we can do to make Casey realize she's in really big trouble. You'd think she'd have realized that when she was bagging her dead precious little girl. You'd think she'd be moved by her parents falling apart in front of her. You'd think spending over a year in jail facing the DP would make her talk. She's boxed in her own La La Land, I guess. Is it ever too late to tell the truth?

 

[InspectorGadget]

I know what you mean, no normal person discovering their child's body already decomposing in their trunk, or finding them missing, or whatever the case might be, would not call the police. But I'm really not so sure about Casey's grasp on reality, to be honest. She seemed like she could be delusional to me in her interviews (or delirious or something). So I'm still reserving judgment on that.

And frankly, regarding drug dealers or m*fia, basically, no one other than Casey was ever investigated. We don't know anything at all about the connections of the people who were around Casey and Caylee. People can assume there's nothing like that in Orlando if they want....
There was even the mention of TL's drug dealer's place being broken into and so on, no investigation of that that we've seen at least.
I mean it could be something as simple as a person who harmed Caylee when they were on drugs or just because they're bad news is from a connected family, for example. Or is just a scary , too scary to rat on. Or could be something completely different from that. The crux for me, too, is why didn't she tell? Mental illness? Drug usage? Trauma/Disbelief? Didn't know how to tell, was afraid she would be blamed? Afraid of the perp? Or was told by the perp no one would believe her since the body had been in her car? Or didn't know Caylee was dead/believed Caylee was going to be returned? I'm still not sure we have all the facts or the big picture in this case. To me there could actually be other explanations that would make every bit as much sense as Casey suddenly wanting to murder her child. Though that's a possibility, too.
Of course if she's unable to tell what happened, doesn't know what happened, or is just unwilling to tell, for instance if she foolishly believes her lawyers are going to be able to get her off without her having to come clean with something she does know, whatever the case might be....what can you do for her then? She'll probably be convicted. Weird case still. I am still on the fence. (Despite all the folks who posted here that no intelligent person could consider any alternative to Casey being the murderer!)

No normal person would fail to report a missing child I agree. But a dead shild is somethin else again. I think any person would be shocked and horrified to find their own child in this condition, even if they had been stoned, drunk, stupid or otherwise emotionally challenged. It would take quite some time to recover before up and driving the corpse to the police station.

Any intelligent person would stop and think "that will incriminate me for something I didn't do". Who would you trust to help you if you found yourself in this (hypothetical) situation? If it were me, I might go to the police, but I would certainly expect them to arrest me.

On the other hand, I might decide to try and find out myself who had done this so that I didn't leave an offender on the loose to do it to someone else.

Maybe Casey did whatever it took, including lying, forging cheques to buy clothes & food to ingratiate herself at Tony's - continuing to go to Fusion & act normally because she thought someone from there was involved. She would have had nothing to lose.

Yes, by the time we see her in jail she is not well, she has a strange affect and continues to lie. I do believe she knew Caylee was dead because she talks of her in the past tense.

One of the things that doesn't fit my theory is why a different diaper to what she usually wore was found with Caylee's remains. That would point towards her having been at some other location between the house and the remains site.

 

[noonie]

NADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Never in a Ga-Zillion years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[InspectorGadget]

I'm confused about your dates. You said the 15th. The 16th she was gone according to George.

Hi RR004

Yes according to George a live Caylee was there on the morning of the 16th, but he may have been persuaded by Cindy that that is what he remembers. He is having to remember a particular morning more than a month past. Very easy to be mistaken and then there is the confusion between the 9th & 16th.

So my hypothetical scenario is: Casey comes back from Tony's evening of Sunday 15th, drives car into garage, unlocks trunk to chuck some stuff in the washing. More than likely Cindy puts Caylee to bed because Casey is texting Tony most of the night. So Cindy "knows" Caylee is there.

I am theorising that on the morning of 16th June, George is doing whatever he normally does, watching TV, reading paper, cleaning his car, whatever, & really doesn't notice if Caylee is there or not because he has other things on his mind such as going to work. Casey gets up & no Caylee. She assumes Cindy has taken matters into her own hands and gone off with Caylee. Tries to contact her mother later in the day - no answer. That would confirm her suspicions that Mum is mad at her and has taken Caylee. Continues to Tony's driving around as normal. At some later time goes to car trunk and finds body, possibly disposes of body with or without help.

 

[claudicici]

So many questions remain. For example, if she were the murderer, why keep the body in her trunk long enough for it to decompose, why not dispose of it immediately? (Though it's possible of course.)
I believe she did depose of the baby immedeately in the back yard and moved her a couple of days later when she felt the spot was not secure.
Why leave the duct tape on Caylee's face? I have a lot of trouble believing she would leave the tape on after the death, if she did it I think she would remove the tape immediately after the death to make the death appear more innocent.
I believe the opposite.She wanted to make it look like a kidnapping.And why leave her car in plain view in front of Amscot, you know, and so on?
...because it was out of gas
But of course if she's mentally ill or was high or whatever, who knows? .
I don't think she was high or mentally ill
.....but also, why kill Caylee at all? It doesn't fit with her and Caylee's history. She knew she could leave Caylee with her parents if she wanted to be rid of her. I can't rule out the possibility of Casey being the murderer, but I also can't ignore these things.
...to me it fits exactly...she said it herself,because she is a spiteful bi*** and she didn't want Cindy to have her...her grandma said it as well,because she hated Cindy more than she loved CayleeAlso, she'd fallen in with a completely new crowd shortly before Caylee died or went missing, lots of new people around her and Caylee. Not only her new friends and their roommates, the whole Fusian crowd, and just all the strangers in the apartment complex and so on.
What if Casey had slept with the wrong guy, somebody with a psycho girlfriend? We've all seen cases in the news of crazy girls viciously attacking girls who slept with their boyfriends, would someone harm a girl's child?
...we know who she was sleeping with...we know her and his myspace,txt messages,we have so much info and the only psycho girlfriend he had was Casey....I don't know. To me, the taping and style of disposal seems more like, maybe a pedophile or something really, though, or at least like a perpetrator who didn't care at all about making the death look innocent, you know? In fact more like someone who left the tape on almost as a display.
..that's exactly what she wanted it to look like
...as for the rest of your post we just have too much info about the timeline that anyone else would have been able to commit this crime....

....red's added by me....

 

[claudicici]

Hi RR004

Yes according to George a live Caylee was there on the morning of the 16th, but he may have been persuaded by Cindy that that is what he remembers. He is having to remember a particular morning more than a month past. Very easy to be mistaken and then there is the confusion between the 9th & 16th.

So my hypothetical scenario is: Casey comes back from Tony's evening of Sunday 15th, drives car into garage, unlocks trunk to chuck some stuff in the washing. More than likely Cindy puts Caylee to bed because Casey is texting Tony most of the night. So Cindy "knows" Caylee is there.

I am theorising that on the morning of 16th June, George is doing whatever he normally does, watching TV, reading paper, cleaning his car, whatever, & really doesn't notice if Caylee is there or not because he has other things on his mind such as going to work. Casey gets up & no Caylee. She assumes Cindy has taken matters into her own hands and gone off with Caylee. Tries to contact her mother later in the day - no answer. That would confirm her suspicions that Mum is mad at her and has taken Caylee. Continues to Tony's driving around as normal. At some later time goes to car trunk and finds body, possibly disposes of body with or without help.

....she knew her mother was working on the morning of the 16th and wouldn't have gone off with Caylee.
....by Cindy's own account Casey was sleeping in the same bedroom with Caylee....

...so are you saying someone broke into the Anthony home ,grabbed Caylee as she was laying asleep next to Casey,who was texting and on the phone all night long ,killed Caylee inside of the Anthony home or garage and then left her body in Casey's trunk???

 

[InspectorGadget]

Maybe not...but it also doesn't jive with your theory that she was afraid for her parents.

I don't remember saying that, it isn't part of my theory. I think Casey has lied to her parents, certainly. I don't think, if George was aware of a situation where Caylee was dead and duct taped in the trunk of the car, that he would tell Cindy.

...and she couldn't give a description of the car (heck, she could have taken a picture of the license plate with her phone) or Caylee's killer? Let's remember that we have to be reasonable here...and I just don't see it.

Well my theory is that a hypothetical sex offender in the garage has placed Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car overnight, because this time he has gone too far and killed the child. It gives him a longer getaway than if he leaves her in full view. It avoids having to place her in his own car and leaving evidence there. On the morning of the 16th June, nobody is aware of that yet. It's "just like any other day".

Just because something seems unlikely, it doesn't mean it can't happen!

My theory, not even an opinion really, I will leave that until trial...

 

[InspectorGadget]

So many questions remain. For example, if she were the murderer, why keep the body in her trunk long enough for it to decompose, why not dispose of it immediately?

Need time to formulate a plan? Need to do the normal things to avoid suspicion? Unaware of decomposition timeframes?

Why leave the duct tape on Caylee's face? I have a lot of trouble believing she would leave the tape on after the death, if she did it I think she would remove the tape immediately after the death to make the death appear more innocent.

Reinforces kidnapping/Zenaida story?

What if Casey had slept with the wrong guy, somebody with a psycho girlfriend? We've all seen cases in the news of crazy girls viciously attacking girls who slept with their boyfriends, would someone harm a girl's child? I don't know. To me, the taping and style of disposal seems more like, maybe a pedophile or something really, though, or at least like a perpetrator who didn't care at all about making the death look innocent, you know? In fact more like someone who left the tape on almost as a display.

I think it could have been a pedophile or a frame-up or even a case of a hoax kidnapping gone wrong. I think more evidence than has been released so far will be needed to convict her of murder 1.

As far as Casey not reporting Caylee missing or hurt or dead, I always wondered if another possibility was (and I know some of us have discussed it before) what if Caylee had injuries that Casey knew about, but couldn't face her parents with. For example, what if she had a cigarette burn or knocked out tooth, something Casey wouldn't be able to hide or explain. I know many of us have discussed in the past, would Casey be able to admit to her parents if a boyfriend or associate had done something bad to Caylee? Or if even a stranger had done anything bad to Caylee when Casey had not been supervising closely enough? I know there are some people immature or unstable enough that they will actually panic and commit a worse crime to cover up something and save face. And there are people who will cover endlessly for a lover. Or what if Caylee was already dead, Casey wasn't the murderer, but didn't want to face her parents or authorities with the nature of the injuries on Caylee, is it possible she would not tell in order to give the body time to decompose so the bruises or whatever marks would no longer be visible? I don't know. I still think she would have removed the tape from her face and so on. Just brainstorming on some of these old topics. Thanks for your patience during this brainstorm
Well, I do hope the right person is convicted so Caylee can have justice, I really do. Casey or otherwise. That goes without saying I know.

Me too!

 

[InspectorGadget]

Oops! More evidence to convict her of muder 1.

Sorry.

 

[Curious Me]

IMO, it would have to be a story supported by some concrete evidence the Defense would have to reveal if the jury is asked to stretch that far to try to see another way the crime could have been committed by someone else. Defense has promised this bright light moment will come at trial, but all I've seen from them so far is pretty much whining and finger pointing.

 

[InspectorGadget]

....she knew her mother was working on the morning of the 16th and wouldn't have gone off with Caylee.
....by Cindy's own account Casey was sleeping in the same bedroom with Caylee....

...so are you saying someone broke into the Anthony home ,grabbed Caylee as she was laying asleep next to Casey,who was texting and on the phone all night long ,killed Caylee inside of the Anthony home or garage and then left her body in Casey's trunk???

Hi claudicici

How did she know Cindy hadn't decided to take a sicky & take Caylee somewhere? She didn't see her that morning.

I am not saying someone did, I am saying someone could have, based on a previous case where a sexual predator who lived very close to Hopespring was caught in someone else's garage with a gagged child on the floor, but the child woke up. A pedophile could have watched Casey texting Tony till 3.00am & been pretty sure she was fast asleep by four. (Very risky behaviour admittedly as Casey often wakes up to send more texts! But isn't it the risk part of a pedophile's motivation?)

 

[InspectorGadget]

IMO, it would have to be a story supported by some concrete evidence the Defense would have to reveal if the jury is asked to stretch that far to try to see another way the crime could have been committed by someone else. Defense has promised this bright light moment will come at trial, but all I've seen from them so far is pretty much whining and finger pointing.

You are right. I think the defense have till the end of the month to reveal what they have.

I don't really understand this sunshine law so I have no idea what they might have!

 

[seekingjustice**]

You are right. I think the defense have till the end of the month to reveal what they have.

I don't really understand this sunshine law so I have no idea what they might have!

InspectorGadget all I can say, IMO, is... please, don't hold ya breath..

 

[InspectorGadget]

InspectorGadget all I can say, IMO, is... please, don't hold ya breath..

LOL!

I wish they would release some more documents!

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I don't know if Casey did it or not, but I think we need to see more solid evidence for a conviction for murder 1.

To me, the duct tape screams sex offender. Recently in May I believe, a sex offender was charged with a similar offence in the same area - he lived just a few streets away. He had entered a house, taken the toddler (a girl) & bedding from her bed, dressed her in a pair of shorts, placed her in the garage and placed a pair of high heeled shoes next to her. The child woke up and pulled the duct tape off, waking up the parents who chased the offender but didn't catch him. He was later arrested on DNA evidence.

My horrifying thought is this. If he had done this to Caylee but she wasn't lucky enough to pull the duct tape off, he could have disposed of her in the trunk if the car was open in the garage, and this is a possibility given that they drive the car in there to take washing etc. out of the trunk. George had been at work the night of 15th so its quite likely Casey would have driven in because there would have been a space.
It would also explain why Caylee was wearing shorts, why the items with the body come from the house, why the duct tape, laundry bags and garbage bags are consistent with those stored in the Anthony garage, and why Caylee's shoes are missing. Casey might be driving around with a mystery smell in her car until she opens the trunk......
It would also explain why the cover-up. Firstly it would be incriminating for her. Secondly if she had later told her father, he may well have thought she did it. She may even have thought that he did it. But he would have helped her cover up because it would "kill Cindy". Casey herself may have thought that someone who was trying to teach her a lesson had done this given that she admitted herself that she had stolen money etc. It would explain why she didn't go back to the house while her parents were there, because it would be an intolerable situation, better to go elsewhere, get stoned, dissociate. It would also explain many of the family's inconsistencies in that Cindy doesn't know what happened but George and possibly Lee know more. Perhaps she went to Tony's on the 16th thinking her mother had taken Caylee, and didn't discover the horror in the boot until the next day. It may explain why she borrowed Tony's car to go to Chris's on 17th - couldn't risk him wanting to look at her car..

It sounds outlandish I know, but it's not so uncommon these days. In the next street to me, an offender was recently caught with a knife and a stocking over his head, interfering with a 6 year old boy who woke the parents & the father caught him.

It wouldn't explain why the family are still claiming that they don't believe the remains are Caylee.

I just wanted you to know, it being Sunday and all, I totally am able to clear my mind and just feel like at least TRYING to understand a different scenario....

1) IMO, duct tape DOES NOT scream "sex offender"....stuffing a sock in someones mouth or tying a piece of material, etc would/has worked on many a person...but in the spirit of accepting the "duct tape" theory....what are the odds of the offender having the EXACT same "RARE" tape as found to be used by the A's....piece on gas can, rolls given to helpers to attach posters....the same RARE tape which a TV video had a picture of as helpers were in fact putting up posters with...would the offender just come "unprepared" and rifle through the A's drawers to find some?? IMO, a sexual predator would have been much more "prepared", so to speak, maybe have their own little "tool kit".

2) IMO, the MOST important fact....the A's have 2 dogs....they were, according to the A's, Caylee's dogs. Now....I have 2 Yorkies...as you can see. They ARE "yappers"....I don't care HOW well behaved. Dogs are dogs....they can't help but bark....especially at a stranger. AND, they are pretty "possessive", so to speak. My Winston is an angel...he'll let me do ANYTHING to him....goofy garland around his neck and all...LOL
BUT....if ANYONE comes into the house, he'll bark like nobody's business until I tell him it's OK....even if my sister talks to me in a mean voice, he'll get PO'd at her....LOL

3) The A's seem pretty diligent, IMO, about their security...hmm, GA's LE/security guard jobs sort of attest to that. There were no signs of a "break in"....cut screen, jimmied door, etc.

4) As you know....the majority of us went thru threads and threads of possibilities....a great deal of posters truly believed she was innocent. NO ONE wanted to believe a mother could do a horrific thing such as this.....even the fact of waiting the "31 days"....AND, KC even swore out an affidavit a few months back that SHE, in fact, DID NOT call authorities to report this.

5) IMO, LE MUST have thought out EVERY possibility...as crazy as it seemed, even checking sex offenders in and around the area....they DID NOT want to be accused of a "rush to judgement".

6) Yet another point....IF anything such as this happened....the defense would have DEFINITELY gone here FIRST....no doubt in my mind....NONE. Yet, the defense stuck with Zanny...moved on to Ricardo....Amy (even researching and emailing betw CA and DC such personal derogatory info about her dug up by DC)....stuck on the Grund's for quite a while....I'm sure others in between....NOW, we got them trying to ruin yet ANOTHER person's life who had the misfortune of getting involved with this circus. EVEN KC didn't say ANYTHING after RK's pic was plastered across national media and newspapers to the effect of "OMG, thats the man I saw lurking around the house...I always saw him reading our meter..."

7) IMO...since Mort is STILL visiting KC in jail...I can almost guarantee they are trying to find a new scape goat to use as "evidence" by their deadline at the end of the month

8) I CAN'T go thru all the mountains of evidence released that will be used at trial to "connect the dots", so to speak, in a "logical" manner for the jury.
I think we forget...yet it has been said in post after post here on WS....the jury MUST come to a decision based upon FACTS as presented at trial.
Our legal folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but the jury isn't supposed to creat new scenarios, IMO.

9) If I'm correct....this above mentioned sex predator had a different "modus operandi", so to speak.

10) Gettin tired ovah here....LOL
This is as far as I'll go...is anyone STILL reading...LOL
KC didn't back into the garage...except on the 17th or 18th as reported by the neighbor, BB. Chances are...since she was in and out of the house so much, her car was probably "last in line" or on the street.....IF the whole scenario of Caylee dying at the hands of said sex offender...she would most likely been put into one of the other vehicles in the garage. Also....most trunks need a key to open....didn't the tow yard need to unlock the trunk, IIRC....how could the predator get the body in HER trunk without the key to unlock the trunk.....


I COULD keep going....but, I'm done for now....***and the thread draws a collective sigh of relief***

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

LOL!

I wish they would release some more documents!

Ha!! This is gettin' like an I Love Lucy episode...."Slooooowly I turn....step by step..."

LOL LOL

3 Stooges does it better with "Niagra Falls"......LOL

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yJBhzMWJCc&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Pondering Mind]

Hi claudicici

How did she know Cindy hadn't decided to take a sicky & take Caylee somewhere? She didn't see her that morning.

I am not saying someone did, I am saying someone could have, based on a previous case where a sexual predator who lived very close to Hopespring was caught in someone else's garage with a gagged child on the floor, but the child woke up. A pedophile could have watched Casey texting Tony till 3.00am & been pretty sure she was fast asleep by four. (Very risky behaviour admittedly as Casey often wakes up to send more texts! But isn't it the risk part of a pedophile's motivation?)

bbm~

lol, taking a *sicky* from what?...doing nothing? Seriously though Inspector Gadget, for this theory to even begin to work you would have to believe Cindy has repeatedly lied about hearing KC and Caylee breathing through the door and George as well with his detailed description of how the morning went and what they were wearing. Do you believe them to be lying if I may ask? and if so..for what purpose? To cover for KC or as some have suggested in the past that actually one or the other of them were actually the last person to see Caylee alive. Personally I don't believe they had anything whatsoever to do with Caylee's murder (cover up after the fact, by way of obstruction or omission etc...well, that's a whole 'nother story for another thread. :steamed: Anyway, I'm just curious as to how you would reconcile that..TIA!

btw~although as I said I don't believe they had anything to do with Caylee's murder myself, many people believe that JB and KC will throw them under the bus before all is said and done..we'll see.

I believe that was KC and KC alone..who knew exactly what she was doing, no lala land, no mental illness that blocked out only her memory of what happened to Caylee and nothing else, no mafia or drug lords, no meter reader, no acquaintance/stranger while KC wasn't supervising her properly... IMHO she also knew that Cindy would catch up with her at some point although it appears KC lived her life 10 minutes at a time. As most of us here know now, (although I speak only for myself) that Cindy (as she always had) would eventually buy ANY story that she was fed as long as KC had just a little time with her. THANK GOD Cindy was already on the phone calling 911 before KC asked her for 1 more day or I firmly believe we wouldn't be talking about this today.

 

[Pondering Mind]

No normal person would fail to report a missing child I agree. But a dead shild is somethin else again. I think any person would be shocked and horrified to find their own child in this condition, even if they had been stoned, drunk, stupid or otherwise emotionally challenged. It would take quite some time to recover before up and driving the corpse to the police station.

Any intelligent person would stop and think "that will incriminate me for something I didn't do". Who would you trust to help you if you found yourself in this (hypothetical) situation? If it were me, I might go to the police, but I would certainly expect them to arrest me.
On the other hand, I might decide to try and find out myself who had done this so that I didn't leave an offender on the loose to do it to someone else.

Maybe Casey did whatever it took, including lying, forging cheques to buy clothes & food to ingratiate herself at Tony's - continuing to go to Fusion & act normally because she thought someone from there was involved. She would have had nothing to lose.

Yes, by the time we see her in jail she is not well, she has a strange affect and continues to lie. I do believe she knew Caylee was dead because she talks of her in the past tense.

One of the things that doesn't fit my theory is why a different diaper to what she usually wore was found with Caylee's remains. That would point towards her having been at some other location between the house and the remains site.

Are you serious!? Do you really believe any person who happened to find their dead child in the trunk of their car (I can't even believe that I just typed that) AND had nothing to do with the child being there would stop and say ..hmmm..this looks bad and might incriminate me...what should I do?! Let me just drive around awhile with my dead BABY in my trunk and do some investigating myself...AND you believe that is what any "intelligent person" would do? I have NO idea whether or not you have children and I'm not asking...but to say that I am stunned would be an understatement... No offense, really, we are all entitled to our opinions, but if that is the definition of intelligent, then I will be happy as a clam being the village idiot...:beamup: