If Terri truly had no part in Kyron's disappearance...

[Calliope]

It's been alleged that TH e-mailed the teacher on the afternoon of June 4th asking about when she could pick up K's science fair project. It's also been alleged that TH gave the teacher paperwork (the day before) to fill out for the Dr. appt.

If it's true that TH e-mailed the teacher asking about the science fair project, would it not have been a good time for TH to have also asked if she had completed the paperwork, or inquired about a convenient time to pick up the completed paperwork?

IMO, the paperwork for the Dr. appt. would have taken precedence over picking up the project.

MOO

I wouldn't have expected the teacher to have that paperwork ready so soon.

Science fair, end of year, 20 for so kids of which I'm sure there were other forms to complete. That's probably why Terri gave it to her a week early.

 

[grandmaj]

Is the email a fact that was reported or a rumor? Thanks.

 

[cypress]

I know what you mean - I'm just awaiting the grand entrance of a harlequin dwarf, a tattooed sword swallower, & a fire-juggling acrobat.

Good points made about the appointment, but I still can't discount it as a possible key. It's the one thing that sticks in my craw, especially with so much song & dance around it.

Another thing for me is the paperwork. All the reports I've read seem to agree that Terri gave the teacher paperwork to fill out. There has been a lot of speculation about what kind of doctor's appointment would necessitate this kind of paperwork, as most of the time you simply take your child to the doctor. If it's part of the plan, it seems needlessly elaborate. If the doctor's appointment was about confusing the teacher, she could've simply said she was taking him to the doctor, no paperwork necessary. That she had paperwork intimates to me that there was a doctor's appointment, and she probably either had to print off the paperwork or pick it up from the doctor's office.

Honestly, if there was no doctor's appointment, I believe we'd know it by now.

Kaine knowing or not knowing about the doctor's appointment doesn't sway me either way. He doesn't seem very in tune with what was going on in the house, and not just in the way of allegations, either. He was somewhat blase and ignorant of if Terri was still taking medication for her PPD or even if she was/is still suffering from PPD. He didn't know about the talent show, etc.

 

[Haeve]

Sorry if this is off topic (let me know if it is please), and I know some folks don't like the armchair psychology, but my mom the narcissist (MMTN ) can be extremely naive and even childlike about some things, including about who to trust, and very crafty and cunning about others. To be vague and not too TMPI, a social worker for seniors was sent to her house for a significant "is she capable of living by herself?" problem. My mom charmed the socks off the social worker, who told me she was "very impressed" with her intellect, charm, humor, etc. Mom was even able to talk knowlegeably about one of her likely diagnoses. Meanwhile, they are standing 6 feet from proof that Mom wasn't capable of dealing with day-to-day life. I just thought, "Wow, Mom really did a snowjob on that poor woman."

So she can barely cope with day-to-day reality and created a situation that was dangerous in several ways, including having sketchy strangers around (she blamed the strangers). But when she was forced to sell her home, she got it done quickly and efficiently. At the same time, I think it's possible she got ripped off. It makes my head spin. Just like this case.

Trying to steer this back on topic, judging by my mom's actions, I could see how Terri might look completely off her rocker and seem all the world like the perpetrator, and yet she could be in complete denial about how her behavior (which she would defend to the ends of the earth) could have created a dangerous situation for her stepson. So she was involved, but not really involved, if you know what I mean. I think my mom would rather be boiled in oil than ever admit she made a mistake. JMHO, YMMV.

ETA: This is in reaction to a few posts above (thread moved quickly while I was composing!) that wondered how TH could be apparently making a complete mess of everything with her recent behavior, that is, not laying low like someone who had planned Kyron's disappearance would, facebooking, etc., so how could she possibly be a careful planner? I took the devil's advocate side above, because of the topic of the thread so there's a bit of a disconnect. Sorry, my mother and TH are both very confusing people.

 

[xin]

Another thing for me is the paperwork.
...edit...
Kaine knowing or not knowing about the doctor's appointment doesn't sway me either way. He doesn't seem very in tune with what was going on in the house, and not just in the way of allegations, either. He was somewhat blase and ignorant of if Terri was still taking medication for her PPD or even if she was/is still suffering from PPD. He didn't know about the talent show, etc.

Perhaps they've been on the rocks for a while.

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

Is the email a fact that was reported or a rumor? Thanks.

Grandmaj I don't know if it is fact, it was reported way early on, like the first few days. I believe it was either posted on her FB or was mentioned by someone from the school and reported in a new article. Sorry, can't be of more help but I do recall this email being brought up, as to if it's been cleared up to be a fact, I don't know.

 

[sorrell skye]

Is the email a fact that was reported or a rumor? Thanks.

THX grandmaj - I edited my post to remove the e-mail reference.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I try everyday to see this from other angles without TMH involvement, but she has been unable to come to the forefront and present herself as a caring, concerned stepmother. Today I feel more sure she must be very involved and too guilty to try to put on an act for the public.

SBM

This is not directed personally at you, Curious Me; I'm using the snipped portion of your post as an example of what seems to me to be a commonly held feeling.

The problem I have with the reasoning is that being a crass, insensitive, lying jerk does not make a person a murderer. If that were enough to convict for murder, my ex-father-in-law and many others should be behind bars!

A lot of theories seem to hinge on what looks like a contradiction to me: first, that TMH was able to present an appearance of being an involved, loving stepmother to Kyron before he disappeared; then second, that she is so depraved (or whatever) that she cannot present the appearance of being a loving stepmother now.

If the first were true, I would think that it provided her with lots of practise in putting up quite a front (if she really is the cold, calculating murderer that some suspect). And yet, she's manifestly failing to do so in many people's eyes (I can't decide whether or not this is so).

Just another aspect of this case that is driving me nuts.

 

[GrainneDhu]

In general, I am afraid, it is extremely hard to solve any murder not committed by a family member or known associate of the victim, and the longer the wait the harder this becomes, IMO.

If TH isn't the perp, I have a bad feeling we may have to wait until some guy gets arrested for some rape/murder in a few years and wishes to trade the location of the remains to have the DP taken off the table.

Of course, I hope my pessimism is completely wrong, and that Kyron comes home safe and the guilty party/parties are all brought to justice swiftly and securely, etc. But that really should be taken as a given for all of us, I think.

G-d bless LE - they have their work cut out for them.

BBM

I agree with you.

And because I keep wondering if TMH is innocent, then I worry about what is happening to her now. The founders of the US made it clear a couple hundred years ago that the end does not justify the means. The acceptable use of torture by LE is so far in our past that many people don't even think of it as the reason behind the fifth amendment. We just accept that officially sanctioned torture is not something we, as a nation, do.

If TMH is innocent, what she is going through right now is torture in the court of public opinion.

It troubles me.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've wondered for some time now if Terri put Kyron at risk by her actions or acquaintances... and perhaps she doesn't know what she knows.

Given her obvious lack of judgement (or at the very least, the inability to determine what is socially appropriate behavior) or her strange response to high levels of stress as we've seen recently, I do have to consider that she did something very stupid and risky and may have unintentionally brought a Very Bad Person into her and the children's lives. It may not be that this person ever met Kyron before, I don't know.

IMO, she is a perfect target for a pedophile. SAHM with small kids, alone (and apparently lonely) in a rural setting, teacher, gullible and naive as hell when it comes to protecting their privacy and security, seems to have a bad habit of telling intimate details about herself (and her kids?) to total strangers, very needy and in need of contact and affirmation.

And contrary to what most people seem to think of her here, to me she comes off as a very submissive person who pretty much does what she's told and seeks to please everybody. To what degree, I don't know, but I have my suspicions. She certainly doesn't strike me as ice-water-in-the-veins, 'mastermind', take-control type at all.

I agree.

Would you trust her to be in charge of hiring for your company? I wouldn't and it has nothing to do with whether I think she's innocent or guilty. She gives me the appearance of being someone who takes people at face value; for instance, her comments that she believes LE is on her side that came well after it was clear to everyone else that she is at the very least one of the main focuses of the investigation.

If your pedophile grooming scenario is true, then she may well still not realise that her online friend is the guilty party. If I were the pedophile in that scenario, I would have been using a throwaway addy and routing my online time via TOR or some other commonly used anonymiser. I'd keep right on emailing her, offering words of concern and comfort specifically to throw suspicion away from myself.

In fact, if I used a throwaway email addy and TOR, I'd be sure to give the impression that I lived on the east coast so that I would tend to be overlooked just on the grounds of lack of proximity.

Another thought: if this is so, then I wouldn't be surprised if the pedophile has been posing as a woman and mother. What better way to really throw off suspicion? There may have been exchanges of pictures (particularly with kids) but it's easy enough to hoick other people's photos online. Do a google images search and pick the ones that seem most appropriate.

 

[GrainneDhu]

snipped by me

do you have a link with info? I dont know those cases and google tells me nothing but this thread :biglaugh:

It would help if I could remember to spell Dansby correctly! I do apologise for my abysmal memory. I should have typed "Christopher Dansby and Shane Walker."

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dansby_christopher.html

The above link is for Christopher Dansby's information but it also has a link on the page for Shane Walker.

If you are registered with The New York Times you can search their archives for related articles; there are several quite good ones. The disappearances took place in NYC. Registration is free.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Actually, they don't have to build the whole case, all they have to have is probable cause to arrest and charge someone. Once a person is charged, the prosecutors build the case, based on the evidence LE finds.
If they had anything pointing to Terri as being the culprit right now, I would think she would be in jail. Trials don't start immediately, sometimes they are a year or more down the road. There would be ample time to build a case against her. With that said... I'm sure LE wants to do it right to make sure it will not get thrown out.
What the problem seems to be is... either there is no concrete proof that she did any harm to Kyron... or the DA is refusing to prosecute until there is more solid evidence.

BBM

She's got a defence attorney who seems really sharp and on top of his game. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the things that is holding LE back is the spectre of arresting TMH, then her attorney refuses to waive her right to a speedy trial. That would mean prosecutors would be forced to be ready to go within a maximum of 60 days.

Given Mr Houze's past record, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the prosecutors would dread his pulling exactly that move. It's not like he could refuse to waive her rights and the prosecution could then say "well, Your Honour, we really won't be ready in that time... can we slow it down some?"

They'd be laughed out of court at best and judicially spanked, most likely.

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

I have a pretty firm stance on my opinion, but I won't say it is conclusive until we have proof. I am one of those people that say actions or lack of speak louder than words. So even if she isn't responsible, I can say in my honest opinion her actions have given me reason to say she is guilty of not caring so much.

She cares about herself and that doesn't get you very far in life. :twocents:

 

[debs]

I have a pretty firm stance on my opinion, but I won't say it is conclusive until we have proof. I am one of those people that say actions or lack of speak louder than words. So even if she isn't responsible, I can say in my honest opinion her actions have given me reason to say she is guilty of not caring so much.

She cares about herself and that doesn't get you very far in life. :twocents:

And I am one who believes she saw the writing on the wall and realized it was coming at her like a gangbuster. She waited, though, to hire an attorney. That speaks to me, also. But keeping her mouth shut? That doesn't surprise me at all. Not one bit. The less a POI says, the better for them. As someone wisely posted in the last few days, why do the prosecutions work for them? So far, we have anecdotal statements of Terri's words, but nothing from Terri herself. That says a lot to me, also.

Leaving her mute while others say what they will about her puts them ultimately in the position of proving THEIR words. Terri will only have to answer charges brought to her from the State.

 

[DairyGirl]

I keep coming back to the pesky Dr.'s appointment around which so much mystery & confusion swirls.

It hasn't been confirmed whether or not there was ever indeed an appointment, but TH's friend JF has relayed on behalf of TH that there was (according to TH) an appointment.

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said. source: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

KH states:

"There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain." source: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/horman_family_answers_question.html

IMO, the appointment, and all the confusion surrounding it, could be one of the reasons why DY & TY are convinced of TH's premeditated involvement.

The appointment question has yet to be fully & sufficiently answered, as far as I'm concerned.

Here are my questions:

1. Was there a bona fide appointment?

2. Did TH inform the teacher "the day before" (June 3rd) of such an appointment?

3. Was the teacher confused as to the date of the alleged appt.? If she was confused, what factors may have led to the confusion?

4. Is it possible the teacher really did misunderstand what she may have been told about the appt. (if she was truly told anything about an appt. at all)?

5. If TH informed the teacher of an appt., was the perceived lack of clarity regarding this appt. deliberate or unintentional on TH's part?

So many questions, so few answers.

A lot would be answered for me if I knew if the teacher had returned the paperwork or not. If TH asked the teacher that morning if she filled out the paperwork and the teacher returned it to her I could see why she would assume the appointment was for that day.

 

[DairyGirl]

I don't mean this in an ugly way, but of course this case has a half-deaf teacher. I mean, is there anything this case doesn't have? Seriously.

One reason I've been quick to discount Terri using the appointment as a way to purposefully confuse the teacher, is because it directly implicates her. It's a little obvious, IMHO. However, more importantly, why try to confuse the teacher? The school didn't have a policy to call home when a student was absent. There was no need for Terri to confuse the teacher to "buy time." If she did this, and knew the policy, she knew they wouldn't call anyway.

I agree but even if the school normally would not have called if he were absent the teacher herself may have been concerned after first seeing him there earlier and then him not being there. She might have called or dropped an email if she did not know the reason he might have left.

 

[cypress]

I agree but even if the school normally would not have called if he were absent the teacher herself may have been concerned after first seeing him there earlier and then him not being there. She might have called or dropped an email if she did not know the reason he might have left.

But wouldn't the teacher still have the paperwork for the doctor's appointment?

It just doesn't make sense that this was some sort of fake, diversionary doctor's appointment. If Terri was using the doctor's appointment to confuse the teacher, then why would she involve paperwork? Her handing the paperwork to the teacher ahead of time makes sense. Her handing the teacher paperwork for a doctor's appointment Kyron was supposedly having that day and then not picking up the paperwork and staging an abduction...it's just too unnecessary, IMHO.

Honestly, IMHO, it makes more sense that there was an actual doctor's appointment, there was paperwork, she mentioned it to the teacher, and in retrospect the teacher may be saying there was confusion to cover up perceived or real negligence on her part.

IMHO, the only way the doctor's appointment could play into this, is to establish a sort future alibi, in that Terri can point to the doctor's appointment and say that scheduling a doctor's appointment for Kyron is proof that she had no plans to harm him.

 

[mrsjonnob]

I remain on the fence, but on any given day (sometimes multiple times a day) I slide one way or the other.

I am not convinced TH is involved, but if she isn't, she has some terrible luck (and extremely bad judgement).

To answer the OP's question- I think it is entirely possible that if TH is exhonerated, noone will ever be prosecuted. This could wind up like the Jon Benet case- unsolved, or at least, in some opinions, unproven.

Short of Kyron being found (hopefully alive, but even if not) and damning evidence, this case will likely go cold.

Poor little guy- My little boy will be starting 3rd grade next month and I keep thinking Kyron should be enjoying his summer break and looking forward to starting grade 3 as well.

 

[Caligram]

If Terri were innocent, she would be very vocal about proving it. She would be able to re-trace her "steps" during those four hours on June 4th.

She probably would have been driving her own car rather than a common white truck.

She most-likely would have brought her daughter to the school, to show her off -when people would surely have taken notice of a red-haired woman pushing a stroller with a darling red-haired toddler in it.

She would have made a doctor's appointment for Kyron after summer vacation, which was not far off. The doctor appointment provided during school hours provided her with a built-in excuse had she encountered anyone when she left the school, with Kyron at a discrete distance. So easy to fake the confusion of the appointment date.

Terri knew the school layout. The people leaving the school would not encounter people entering - one could leave without calling attention to oneself. it is my understanding that the exit was on the opposite side of the school entrance.

Terri has continued to pull a "Casey", answering no questions, issuing no statements. She has voluntarily placed herself in the position of POI. It is unfortunate that even today a murderer can get away with morder by keeping their mouth shut.

It would not have taken ""months of planning" to whisk Kyron out of school on a very busy un-ordinary school day.

Terri know the area well, and could have planned a place where she could dispose of Kyron, a place that would keep him hidden for a long, long time. There need not be any DNA evidence in that truck. She could have walked him to a spot on some pretext, and then did whatever......

I don't believe that Terri is innocent, nor do I believe that she will develop any sort of conscience and "confess". I think she secretly relishes the pain and the fears she sees on the faces of others who loved Kyron and would never ever harm him. She may have decided on a new role for her warrior character.

These are my own thoughts. This may sound very mean, but it's not about step-parenting. It's about listening to one's hunches and eliminating the obviously non-guilty ones.

 

[Chewy]

You know the one thing that has been on my mind through all this is that TH can easily get away with this if she keeps her mouth shut. Everyone knows that the worst thing a person can do is to talk.