If you agree or disagree with the verdict, let us know why

[WillChgo]

Well I know of 2 who went over the edge after their child died. 1 happened to be a swimming pool accident (back in the 70's) and the other one was a car accident. Both women went out of control almost immediatly.

One was drinking daily/nightly, sleeping with anyone who would have her and at the funeral she looked like she was having a really good time....4 years later she killed herself...

The 2nd one happened to be married but showed no grief at all. She cleaned out the room and made it into a den 2 weeks after the accident, she would take down the pictures daily and her husband would put them back up. She was sporting the most expensive clothing you could buy and she refused to go to the grave. It wasn't until her husband threatened to leave her that the truth was discovered. They were 1000's of dollars in debt but the biggest thing was she agreed to counciling and it was then that she pulled out her journal. The one she had been writing in since the day after the funeral to her son that died..the one that she thought was still alive...It's been about 4 years now and she is getting better. She's even thinking about having another baby but it was a tough tough road for her.

Everyone mourns different. It does happen and I thank God everyday that I never had to go through something like that.

I agree that there are variations in how people grieve. But in the examples you describe above both women went out of control and acted differently than they had before.

This is quite the opposite of Casey's behavior. None of her friends found any difference in her behavior.

A lack of response to a daughter's death is evidence, IMO, to sociopathy and lack of true love, NOT an alternative form of grief.

 

[Sustained]

If you have done something to your child in the preceding days weeks months that you know is wrong or harmful ie using a drug to medicate the child to sleep, then separate to that your child meets with a genuine accident like drowning in the pool and is very clearly dead, an immature 22 year old might not rush to call 911 for fear of the previous abuse being uncovered and you going to jail for 5-10-20 years. I think it's forseeable she could of panicked and handled it the way she handled everything else in her life. She lied and fabricated elaborate detailed stories and covered up the truth. Casey didn't begin lying that day, she had a history. The imaginary nanny kidnapped Caylee.

Excellent post and the best theory I've heard yet - I have a little trouble with the 5-10-20 years for drugging your child versus sitting in prison for 3 years facing the death penalty. Why not just tell the police it was an accident and take your chances that no toxicology tests would be done (or no autopsy at all) ? I think it is highly likely that FCA overdosed Caylee with chloroform and then covered her tracks, hence the levels of chloroform in the trunk (whether you believe the air tests or not - I do).

 

[Who_What_When]

Maybe the State should have included charges of not reporting a death.
Or maybe they should have outlined scenarios in which an accidental death could still be manslaughter, due to negligence.
But they only wanted to keep jurors thinking about premediated first-degree murder, IMO. The other charges were there, but the state did not want them to make use of them.
I really do believe Casey is guilty, all by herself, but I also really believe that from the trial alone, other sources notwithstanding, I couldn't feel comfortable convicting her. Nothing to do with the opening statement, because I have no idea if she drowned, tripped and fell, or was killed by her mother on purpose. Casey not calling 911 does not prove anything to me except that she is an exception to every rule, which I did gather from the trial.

ITA!!! I too believe that Casey is solely responsible for what happened to Caylee, whether it was an accident that she covered up or a murder. I just didn’t feel that the SA proved that she was murdered. That doesn’t mean I believe that BARD that it was an accident but without knowing either way I wouldn’t be able to convict her of murder. I would however have been able to convicted her of child abuse (and maybe manslaughter). I feel that even if Caylee died by accident the fact that she neglected to get help for her, IMO, makes her guilty of child neglect.

 

[annalia]

Well, in the same sense then, the state provided no evidence of murder. Maybe they could've proved murder if they found DNA on the duct tape, an actual decomposition stain in the car, chloroform supplies purchased by Casey, etc.

I dare say that a baby stuffed into a garbage bag, with duct tape wrapped around her head thrown into the woods, "along with" a mother, the last one with her child, who never reported her missing and never even did report her missing, it was the child's grandmother who eventually reported it, then continued to build lie upon lie about her child, is without a doubt real evidence.

Making up imaginary possibilities to include others, some that defy all logic, isn't evidence.

And the claims that she and George would have been arrested had Caylee accidently gotten into the pool and drowned, isn't necessarily true. An accidental death is many times treated as such by LE, an unfortunate accident with no charges.

JMHO

 

[cluciano63]

Wanted to share this letter: Ernest_Steffens

Casey Anthony jurors did not understand what their duty was

A primary faculty the Casey Anthony jurors left at the foot of the courthouse steps was common sense.

Comments after the verdict by jurors suggest they had no conception what their duty was. They claimed the prosecution had not shown exactly how Caylee Anthony died, where she died, or when she died. That was not their moral responsibility. Their sole determination was whether Casey Anthony had killed her daughter.

Often defendants are convicted of murder when a body is never found. In such cases no one knows how they died. The state medical examiner in the Anthony case testified that the presence of duct tape around Caylee's nose and mouth and the fact that she was discarded in plastic bags clearly indicated she had been murdered. She ruled the death "undetermined homicide." Yet the jurors disregarded that and insisted on speculating that Caylee could have drowned, as the defense posited.

Drowning in swimming pools "is a major way that a lot of children die down here in Florida," the jury foreman told Greta Van Susteren on Fox News, as if that were relevant.

As for who did it, Casey Anthony's failure to report the death of her daughter for 31 days, her lying to investigators trying to find her, and her obvious jubilation after Caylee's death are as compelling as any DNA evidence.

The fact that multiple witnesses, including Casey's mother, smelled what they described as a decomposed body in the trunk of Casey's car was crucial evidence. Besides Casey's computer showed searches for information on chloroform. An expert testified that "shockingly high" levels of chloroform were found in a sample of carpet from the trunk of her car. It's apparent the jury rejected the prosecution's damning evidence and as a result justice was denied little Caylee.

May she rest in peace.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/jul/20/letter-casey-anthony-jurors-did-not-understand/

Perhaps the greatest fault should be with Judge Perry, as he allowed the jury to consider drowning as an alternative to murder. The jurors did not simply decide to consider that all on their own.

Also another expert, FBI I believe, testified that the level of chlorform was not high at all. In fact every expert testified the very opposite of the other side, and the judge did tell jurors they have a right to disregard any testimony they do not believe. It is not up to us (me, anyway) to decide for the jury which expert to believe.

As far as the Anthonys...well, we know Cindy lied, and then either Cindy or Lee lied at one point about the knowledge of the searches by Dominic Casey. And George probably lied, at least about River Cruz. So the jurors may have thrown out all of their testimony, as per instructions allowing them to do so.

That wouldn't leave all that much. Personally I think Casey is behind Caylee's death, in one manner or another, and all by herself. But I don't know that from the trial, I also read the one book available last month and read some things here at WS during the trial. I wish the state had used Casey's phone records, but they probably did not want anyone thinking the flurry of calls on the 16th to her parents had to do with an accident. I wish the state had been able to find a way to question Cindy about the fight, even if they were sustained in doing so. I wish they had used all of Casey's MS and FB postings, there were several when she mentioned her frustration at having to stay home with Caylee and her problems with her mom.

I knew far less than most WS'ers coming into the trial but I still knew far more than the jury did. And I couldn't see that Casey did anything more than a. not report an accident, maybe b. faked a kidnapping c. disposed of her child in a horrible way. And I do believe, from what I learned about Casey during the trial, that she would indeed not call 911 and would indeed do anything to keep her mother from knowing what had happened and that she was to blame.

Anyway, JMO...

 

[pcrum12]

Yes it does. IMO, not calling 911 and dumping the body most definitely fit (with the DT's own fabrication). Please explain why you do not (think this fits).

dumping the body is a different charge. Not calling 911? If Casey was asleep and the "normal morning" per George is that he is up early, Caylee comes out, he feeds her, they watch tv, Caylee gets outside and drowns, this is an everyday normal thing, again per George, makes George look like the caretaker. JMO

 

[RR0004]

The blanket= In the Anthony home meaning any of the Anthony's had access to it.

The hamper= In the Anthony home meaning any of the Anthony's had access to it, and stored in a specific spot in the Anthony garage (sounds more like a Cindy/George thing to me).

The bags= In the Anthony home meaning any of the Anthony's had access to it.

The duct tape= In the Anthony home/George's locked shed (don't know if it has been pointed out where exactly it was kept) meaning any of the Anthony's had access to it, or just specifically George. It should be noted that after Caylee's death, George has been the only one seen using the tape (I guess he just got lucky and happened to find this tape after Casey used it? Why wouldn't Casey just take the tape with her and dump it with the body?)

Because she taped Caylee at home?

 

[pcrum12]

Please be so kind as to point out the testimony where he said he bought new gas cans after 8/1 and also where he said there less than an inch of gas in the mower. I can only assume that FCA returned the stolen gas cans empty on 6/24. Did anyone ever ask George if he had gotten gas and put it in a different container ?

He stated it in his deposition and re-stated most of same on the witness stand. You should be able to find both here on WS. Let me see if I can quickly find.

ETA: http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-na...rge-anthony-s-prosecution-deposition-august-5

 

[Baxter]

Ok I'll bite. George made a point to testify that it was a normal morning. He normally got up early and when Caylee got up he would give her breakfast, watch tv, etc. Casey would sleep. You can infer that was normal routine. So the question is does that infer that George is the caretaker? His words, "normal morning" "I'd always give her juice, something to eat". Maybe that's what the jury was getting at when they said they didn't know who was the caretaker. Also, how do you know he wasn't the last person to be seen with Caylee? All you have is HIS word. JMO. Have to agree with the work part lol.

Caylee had a MOTHER. George and Cindy both worked. Casey didn't have a job and according to Cindy and George, Casey was responsible for Caylee. I don't get where the confusion is???? He said after Casey and Caylee left, he went to work. His work hours are verified. Do you think George went to work after finding Caylee in the pool? I don't think so.

 

[RR0004]

I guess that's where the confusion lies, I'm not suggesting anyone harmed her. I am suggesting that the "evidence" to prove murder was not soley Casey's items, they're items that were in the house that all Anthony's had access to.

But only Casey has admitted (through her DT) that she was there at the house when Caylee died. The jury was supposed to look at the facts...not make up another scenario to fit the evidence. If they believed George (g-d bless him) was the one who discarded Caylee then they did consider the DT's OS as evidence...and that is WRONG!

 

[RR0004]

George! He said he was there the morning of the 16th until going to work.

Yes, George saw Casey and Caylee leaving...but who saw George with Caylee after that? The only person who says George was there when Caylee died was Casey...again through her attorney...I think I'd be more apt to believe George on this one.

 

[NotRocketSighence]

Excellent post and the best theory I've heard yet - I have a little trouble with the 5-10-20 years for drugging your child versus sitting in prison for 3 years facing the death penalty. Why not just tell the police it was an accident and take your chances that no toxicology tests would be done (or no autopsy at all) ? I think it is highly likely that FCA overdosed Caylee with chloroform and then covered her tracks, hence the levels of chloroform in the trunk (whether you believe the air tests or not - I do).

At the time of the accident and panic hiding / disposing of the body, she had no idea she would sit in jail for 3 years. This was June 08. That hadn't yet. Most likely she was panicking fearing jail for abuse and thinking no one would believe it was an accident. She stated in an interview her mother would never forgive her. Casey fabricated this perfect life (of lies) A great job, good money, great love life, great social life, she clearly had many real friends who testified how likeable she was. Caylee drowned on her watch and evidence of her drugging her (abuse) didn't fit the life she created (lied about) Her coping / changing mechanism for everything not perfect in her life was to lie and create a new reality.

5-10-20 is a guess on my part and a guess of a random number of years fear in Caseys mind if my theory was correct.

 

[RR0004]

dumping the body is a different charge. Not calling 911? If Casey was asleep and the "normal morning" per George is that he is up early, Caylee comes out, he feeds her, they watch tv, Caylee gets outside and drowns, this is an everyday normal thing, again per George, makes George look like the caretaker. JMO

But, who said Caylee went outside and drowned on George's watch? Casey? She waited how long to tell that lie, oops, I mean story?
And BTW folks, Baez waived Casey's right to a speedy trial.

 

[Baxter]

Perhaps the greatest fault should be with Judge Perry, as he allowed the jury to consider drowning as an alternative to murder. The jurors did not simply decide to consider that all on their own.

Also another expert, FBI I believe, testified that the level of chlorform was not high at all. In fact every expert testified the very opposite of the other side, and the judge did tell jurors they have a right to disregard any testimony they do not believe. It is not up to us (me, anyway) to decide for the jury which expert to believe.

As far as the Anthonys...well, we know Cindy lied, and then either Cindy or Lee lied at one point about the knowledge of the searches by Dominic Casey. And George probably lied, at least about River Cruz. So the jurors may have thrown out all of their testimony, as per instructions allowing them to do so.

That wouldn't leave all that much. Personally I think Casey is behind Caylee's death, in one manner or another, and all by herself. But I don't know that from the trial, I also read the one book available last month and read some things here at WS during the trial. I wish the state had used Casey's phone records, but they probably did not want anyone thinking the flurry of calls on the 16th to her parents had to do with an accident. I wish the state had been able to find a way to question Cindy about the fight, even if they were sustained in doing so. I wish they had used all of Casey's MS and FB postings, there were several when she mentioned her frustration at having to stay home with Caylee and her problems with her mom.

I knew far less than most WS'ers coming into the trial but I still knew far more than the jury did. And I couldn't see that Casey did anything more than a. not report an accident, maybe b. faked a kidnapping c. disposed of her child in a horrible way. And I do believe, from what I learned about Casey during the trial, that she would indeed not call 911 and would indeed do anything to keep her mother from knowing what had happened and that she was to blame.

Anyway, JMO...

This FBI analyst you speak of also stated he never in his career tested air samples like Dr. Vass. He only tested it on objects that were not in an air sealed container.

 

[Little Black Dress]

(Respectfully snipped)

Did the state prove the case and the jury just got it wrong?

In a word, yes.

JMO.

 

[Baznme]

Well, in the same sense then, the state provided no evidence of murder. Maybe they could've proved murder if they found DNA on the duct tape, an actual decomposition stain in the car, chloroform supplies purchased by Casey, etc.

I wish they had been able to submit this for evidence. I know it would have done it for me.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6281645&postcount=838"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner[/ame]

 

[cuppy199]

At the time of the accident and panic hiding / disposing of the body, she had no idea she would sit in jail for 3 years. This was June 08. That hadn't yet. Most likely she was panicking fearing jail for abuse and thinking no one would believe it was an accident. She stated in an interview her mother would never forgive her. Casey fabricated this perfect life (of lies) A great job, good money, great love life, great social life, she clearly had many real friends who testified how likeable she was. Caylee drowned on her watch and evidence of her drugging her (abuse) didn't fit the life she created (lied about) Her coping / changing mechanism for everything not perfect in her life was to lie and create a new reality.

5-10-20 is a guess on my part and a guess of a random number of years fear in Caseys mind if my theory was correct.

These same friends your referr to didnt even know that KA was a lying that whole time but yet we are suppose to believe or just assume these friends knew the real KA.The actions you just discribe also describes a sociopath to a tee.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Re: GA he was not involved.

From his suicide note:

I cannot be strong anymore. Caylee Marie, our granddaughter, I miss her, I miss her so much. I know you do too.
You were always the one that provided for her. What did I provide?
I blame myself for her being gone! You know for months, as a matter of fact, for a year or so I brought stuff up, only to be told not to be negative.
Caylee Marie, I miss her. I miss her. I want my family back.
I sit here, falling apart, because I should have done more.
She was so close to home, why was she there? Who placed her there? Why is she gone? Why?
For months, you & I, especially you always questioned, why?
I want this to go away for Casey! What happened? Why could she not come to us? Especially you, why not Lee?
Who is involved with this stuff for Caylee?
I am going krazy [sic] because I want to
go after these people Casey hung with prior to Caylee being gone.

 

[TexasLori]

Yes, I agree, and I've already corrected myself on that one. Cheers.

I see that you did, and I thank you.

 

[WillChgo]

I wasn't referring to the molestation claims and the jury foreman has said that that particular item didn't factor in on their decision.



It was more substanial than what you are suggesting here, but enough to raise doubts about whether Caylee's death was murder.

It was referred to by GA through the testimony of Krystal Holloway as "an accident that snowballed out of control."
?

The judge explicitly instructed the jury that KH statement could NOT be used as an evidence of an accident.