GUILTY IL - Chyenne Kircher, 14, East Dubuque, 12 Oct 2011

[MsFacetious]

You mean they KNEW ABOUT THIS and STILL called her a runaway?!

I will never understand remaining silent.
I will never understand ignoring obvious signs.

I will never understand not doing everything you can to protect someone else.
I will never understand not alerting someone that they are exposing their children to this.

I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND! :tantrum:

 

[Joe Friday]

Not really surprised by the latest news of Abbas sexually abusing on his own biological daughter.


Still waiting on the autopsy results to confirm my other suspicions.:waiting:

JMO

 

[MsFacetious]

This information, which would have been on his record and known to the family in E. Dubuque, casts an entirely different light on the case and the family response.

How would the family have known about it?
I missed that. He wasn't on the sex offender registry and wasn't convicted of a crime.
I don't see anyway that the family would have known, unless they went to court with him?

The daughter doesn't appear to have told them and he HAD unsupervised visits with her.
It is possible that he got the visitation in order to make himself look better.
Maybe someone was asking questions about why he didn't have visitation?

The POLICE would have had access to this information however.
Which makes THEIR reaction very difficult to understand.

 

[liltexans]

How would the family have known about it?
I missed that. He wasn't on the sex offender registry and wasn't convicted of a crime.
I don't see anyway that the family would have known, unless they went to court with him?

The daughter doesn't appear to have told them and he HAD unsupervised visits with her.
It is possible that he got the visitation in order to make himself look better.
Maybe someone was asking questions about why he didn't have visitation?

The POLICE would have had access to this information however.
Which makes THEIR reaction very difficult to understand.

Wouldn't the family have known that TA had a daughter and he didn't have custody of her and needed to have supervised visits?

Wouldn't they at least have asked why that was the case?

 

[DianeBrown]

The timeline in the video would suggest that there was some overlap in his regaining full rights and his marriage to Chyenne's mother in 2005...at least an overlap with the dating unless they married within a week or two of meeting. Unless he managed to cleverly conceal the process of regaining all of these rights, it would be difficult to think they did not know.

Five years later, in 2004, he regained visitation rights. "It started off, you know, like a visitation. Supervised. It started off with my grandma," Chambers said. "And after awhile I guess they approved him to have visitation alone with us. And then there became overnights."

The process may be different from state to state, but I know those supervised visits usually continue for a while before unsupervised visits start and then there would be another gap before overnights. Even if this started in January of 2004 and Lyons and Abbas married and met in December of 2005, we aren't talking about an extremely large time gap. I also know that for many men, a remarriage or the presence of an adult woman in the house can help them regain full rights faster.

Unless the family chose purposeful obliviousness, the math supports an overlap that would leave them informed. I'd have to ask someone who knows more about the process than me, if the appropriate authorities may have needed to run a check on Lyons (with her permission) as part of the approval or continuation of overnight visitations. They certainly would have to inform her of why they needed to do this.

ETA link to TH article specifying marriage year for Abbas and Lyons: http://www.thonline.com/news/breaking/article_a7422258-2131-11e3-a5ff-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[MsFacetious]

According to the family Chy's services are this Saturday - 10am - at the high school.
Everyone is invited, family, friends, the public. :seeya:

I hope that makes it to MSM soon... since MSM hasn't even reported that they've identified her yet. :facepalm:

Wouldn't the family have known that TA had a daughter and he didn't have custody of her and needed to have supervised visits?

Wouldn't they at least have asked why that was the case?

They wouldn't have to know that he was required to have supervised visitation.
I've known many women who married guys with kids and had little to do with the kids.
Just because he had a daughter doesn't mean that Chy's Mom would want anything to do with her.

Maybe he went on the visits alone, so they had no idea what the circumstances were.
Maybe he just said "My daughter is over at her Grandma's, I'm going to go visit her."
Or maybe he said "I'm going to play golf" and went to see his daughter.

Maybe they thought he WAS taking his daughter.
Maybe he told them he was going to pick her up and take her to the park, but really went to visit her.

Maybe he told them that her mother had taken off and he was fighting in court to get her returned.
Maybe he just said the child was busy until he was able to get overnight visits.
There are plenty of excuses. "She's busy with friends, she's sick, they are out of town."

This guy apparently abused little girls and killed one, I don't think lying was an issue for him.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the family had no clue of the accusations.
With multiple kids, 2 men and a woman living there, it'd be easy to hide what you did AWAY from home.

If it is PROVEN they DID know, then there better be more arrests. :twocents:

 

[Joe Friday]

Link to Obit: http://www.thonline.com/obituaries/article_b1aa5bd8-5bbd-5a5e-9b90-3ec8275578b0.html

Subscription needed to read it. (Really? A paper that can't even open the obits to the general public.)

 

[liltexans]

found the obituary here:

http://www.dubuquetoday.com/obituaries.cfm

Friends may call after 10:00 a.m. Saturday, September 28, 2013 at the East Dubuque High School, 200 Parklane Drive, where a memorial service will be at 11:00 a.m. Saturday, with Rev. Dean Smith officiating.

The Miller Funeral Home of East Dubuque is serving the family.

 

[scadder21]

I was around a year or so ago when we thought we found her online stuff after the time she went missing. I had hoped she had just ran away from a bad situation at home. Obviously this is much worse and very sad how it turned out.

I think the Police really dropped the ball on this. They had to know about Abbas's past criminal history. That history makes her a runaway candidate BUT it also makes it a possibility that she decided to stand up to him and then he killed her. My guess is that she really was running away and Abbas used that as an excuse to make sure she would never come back.

 

[Salem]

As much as I'm inclined to go ahead and move this to located, I'm going to wait for that positive identification. The media will print it as soon as it comes out, because they appear to be following this story pretty closely and even doing a little investigating of their own.

Poor Chyenne. She did try to speak out That makes it even more heartbreaking. I wonder why she didn't tell her mom?

Watching the video of the Sheriff, where he says Chyenne had a unique personality and he talked to her often and that he liked her (all in present tense) makes me think that LE did not give up on her, even if, at least to the public eye, it appears that they dropped the ball big time.

Salem

 

[DianeBrown]

There is a point where ifs and maybes start to add up. I'm not inclined to do a sample probability calculation, but even if there is only a 50% chance of a person noticing potential warning signs for abuse, such as each of the following factors:

a daughter who avoids home
a daughter whose public conversation begins to include gross exaggerations
a daughter who "runs" away
a daughter so desperate for friends that she talks to random strangers

You could multiple it out and get to a pretty slim chance that someone immediately close to Chyenne wouldn't have suspected abuse....maybe not murder...but abuse that led to her running away.

That coupled with:

a spouse who was previously accused of sexual abuse
a spouse regaining rights to visit a daughter
a hillside behind the house that was never searched by the family
a neighborhood search that never actually encompasses the neighborhood

leaves this :banghead: and a slim chance that someone was oblivious...unless they weren't there....at all.

Take abuse out of the equation and there was obvious neglect.

With my own eyes I saw that child when she was still probably ten running around town in Croc-like shoes that were multiple sizes too big regularly. Most of her clothes seemed to fit similarly.

When she was older, she wore clothes that were at least two sizes too small regularly. Too short...too tight....and not "I'm trying to be cute tight."

When she was too old to do so, she walked around downtown East Dubuque in front of cars, bars, and highway traffic in a swimsuit without shoes and without an adult.

In those YouTube videos (to extent) and in person at the time, it looked like she or someone else without skill lopped off her hair in huge chunks. I wondered how she could bear to go to school like that.

And these are just the things I saw when our paths crossed which wasn't as often as a man like the chief or a person who worked in the downtown would have seen her. It was horrible. The only thing more horrible is how Chyenne's life ended.

I'm sure LE was working on this from multiple angles regularly after she didn't return home. Other people saw this. Other people knew something wasn't right in that home. The only thing that wasn't there was a literal red flag.

I can't read this whole story because I'm not a TH subscriber, but one of the TV stations may cover it shortly. Until then there is a bit of new information about the case:

http://www.thonline.com/news/tri-state/article_3aacf552-26f2-11e3-8705-0019bb30f31a.html

 

[2Hope4]

Police used a GPS unit to track the movements of an accused killer before his arrest last week in East Dubuque, according to court documents.

http://www.thonline.com/news/tri-state/article_3aacf552-26f2-11e3-8705-0019bb30f31a.html

 

[mandiedq]

http://ottumwacourier.com/local/x93...-accused-killer-before-arrest-in-East-Dubuque

This one is not subscription based!

 

[2Hope4]

There was a video done soon after Chyenne was 'missing' with her Mom talking, standing in front of a bank with trees. I'm trying to find it again. The mother stated in that video something about a kid running away from something at home, or bullying at school. JMO but the bullying was being done at home as evidenced by those youtube videos! And I hope and pray those are used in court against those responsible for this child's life been taken!!!

 

[2Hope4]

http://ottumwacourier.com/local/x93...-accused-killer-before-arrest-in-East-Dubuque

This one is not subscription based!

Thanks! Says I can only view it 5 more times though. So if anyone sees something, start posting the info here so we don't lose it.


According to court records, Casey Folks, a detective with the Jo Daviess County Sheriff’s Department, prepared an affidavit for a search warrant Sept. 4. Folks obtained permission to place a GPS device on a vehicle used by Abbas, and to search Abbas’ body. - See more at: http://ottumwacourier.com/local/x93...e-arrest-in-East-Dubuque#sthash.nkvqIou9.dpuf

 

[2Hope4]

The warrants were executed and returned by Folks, according to the documents. Online records show a search warrant return with inventory was filed with the court Wednesday.
The documents were sealed by court order today. A motion to seal filed by State’s Attorney John Hay states the returns contain evidence that relates to the first-degree murder charges. The motion notes that media outlets “will attempt to obtain the information contained in the affidavits and inventory forms.”
- See more at: http://ottumwacourier.com/local/x93...e-arrest-in-East-Dubuque#sthash.nkvqIou9.dpuf

 

[2Hope4]

“Furthermore, there is substantial probability that disclosure may compromise or prevent the defendant from receiving a fair trial by disclosure of material evidence in the investigation,” Hays wrote. - See more at: http://ottumwacourier.com/local/x93...e-arrest-in-East-Dubuque#sthash.nkvqIou9.dpuf

 

[2Hope4]

http://pangirlbrit.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/another-dream/

Anyone else see this????

 

[2Hope4]

That video with her Mom talking... it was file2011 or something like that. I can't find it now!!!!

FOUND IT!!!!

http://www.thonline.com/news/tri-state/video_a1602b38-144e-11e1-8614-0019bb30f31a.html

 

[MsFacetious]

As much as I'm inclined to go ahead and move this to located, I'm going to wait for that positive identification. The media will print it as soon as it comes out, because they appear to be following this story pretty closely and even doing a little investigating of their own.

Poor Chyenne. She did try to speak out That makes it even more heartbreaking. I wonder why she didn't tell her mom?

Watching the video of the Sheriff, where he says Chyenne had a unique personality and he talked to her often and that he liked her (all in present tense) makes me think that LE did not give up on her, even if, at least to the public eye, it appears that they dropped the ball big time.

Salem

Can we at least change it to "Presumed Found Deceased"?
Just so that people know? But it needs to say Deceased so no one gets false hope. lease:

I don't know that they could or would be planning a funeral if she hadn't been formally identified.
Seems there is no rush, if the body isn't going to be released might as well wait.

I suspect she's been formally identified but LE just hasn't felt the need to send out a press release.
They may figure with an obituary and a funeral, her identification is assumed. :twocents: