Dionysia
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Or someone writing a book or film?
IL IL - Elfrieda 'Fritzie' Knaak, 29, Lake Bluff, 30 Oct 1928
- Thread starter Ausgirl
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Or someone writing a book or film?
I ought to add : if I sound somewhat cynical of the New Age thing, it's because I spent 20 years working in and around that industry. I call it an 'industry' not a 'movement', because that's primarily what it is. And I made a lot of enemies in that industry, mainly by refusing to charge a lot of money for my services (often being accused of 'denying my self-worth and refusing to partake in abundance', also known as 'undercutting the stupidly overpriced competition').
I've seen a lot of people fleeced, a lot of people messed up mentally, emotionally and financially by New Age 'gurus', a lot of folks handing their personal power over to sugar-coated culty beliefs (presented with a convincing veneer of 'free will' and 'self-empowerment') which generally encourage them to spend up big on ineffective and sometimes harmful products and services... and I am pretty much counting Elfrieda as one of its early victims.
I've seen a lot of people fleeced, a lot of people messed up mentally, emotionally and financially by New Age 'gurus', a lot of folks handing their personal power over to sugar-coated culty beliefs (presented with a convincing veneer of 'free will' and 'self-empowerment') which generally encourage them to spend up big on ineffective and sometimes harmful products and services... and I am pretty much counting Elfrieda as one of its early victims.
I did not realize Chief Barney was in his late 70s or early 80s. To me, that reduces (but does not eliminate) his chances of being the perp. I would be surprised if he had the physical strength to assault E. He seems to be actively involved in the activities of the police department, as opposed to being a figure head. On the night E died, he admits being at the station at 9 PM, then is back at 6 or 7 the next day. Workaholic?
Even though I do not think he was the perp, I cannot ignore his actions the morning E was found. Not calling for an ambulance for 7 hours? Sorting and throwing away the ashes? Waiting several hours before reporting to an investigator? I do give him a pass on not lighting the furnace though. If you ignore the other (in)actions, sending a maintainence guy to light the furnace is not suspicous.
So what, if any, was Chief Barney's involvement? I have wondered before if he and Hitch had more of a boss/employee relationship. Was he taken in by Hitch's charm also? Did he see himself as a father figure or mentor to Hitch? If Hitch was the perp, did he help cover it up out of paternal concern? Because Hitch had a wife and four children to provide for? Because Hitch told him it was an accident and he didn't think Hitch should have to pay for the rest of his life because of an accident? The accidental burning of a brazen floozie who would not stop pursuing a married man? Or did Mrs Hitch do it in the fit of rage and the cover-up began with the assistance of Barney.
Now, if there was a Capone connection, I could see Chief Barney trying to make sure all evidence was covered up/tainted. Lots of motive there. But the mob is usually a little cleaner with their killings. A bullet between the eyes and it is done. I could certainly be convinced otherwise, but I really think the was an accidental or rage killing, not a mob hit.
Even though I do not think he was the perp, I cannot ignore his actions the morning E was found. Not calling for an ambulance for 7 hours? Sorting and throwing away the ashes? Waiting several hours before reporting to an investigator? I do give him a pass on not lighting the furnace though. If you ignore the other (in)actions, sending a maintainence guy to light the furnace is not suspicous.
So what, if any, was Chief Barney's involvement? I have wondered before if he and Hitch had more of a boss/employee relationship. Was he taken in by Hitch's charm also? Did he see himself as a father figure or mentor to Hitch? If Hitch was the perp, did he help cover it up out of paternal concern? Because Hitch had a wife and four children to provide for? Because Hitch told him it was an accident and he didn't think Hitch should have to pay for the rest of his life because of an accident? The accidental burning of a brazen floozie who would not stop pursuing a married man? Or did Mrs Hitch do it in the fit of rage and the cover-up began with the assistance of Barney.
Now, if there was a Capone connection, I could see Chief Barney trying to make sure all evidence was covered up/tainted. Lots of motive there. But the mob is usually a little cleaner with their killings. A bullet between the eyes and it is done. I could certainly be convinced otherwise, but I really think the was an accidental or rage killing, not a mob hit.
I believe Marie said she has written a screenplay about the case.
Amen!
Oh I agree, completely. But when it comes to investigations staying on a manageable, local level that won't bring a lot of inconvenient attention down on a few crooked officials, a suicide hits the spot - whereas the heinous murder by burning of a prominent local citizen's daughter does not. More along the lines of making sure things quieted down quickly, was my thinking, Kari.
As to cults & the New Age - the New Age isn't a cult, so much as a broad umbrella philosophy which is easily utilised as the basis for cults, as are Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and mainstream religions like those. The New Age, imo, and its Theosophical ancestors were a reaction to the burgeoning Industrial/Scientific age and while they aren't a 'religion' as such, still essentially employ a lot of the same social control mechanisms that conventional religions do. Cults usually have a charismatic leader through whom followers are told they can receive whatever particular brand of 'enlightenment' or 'salvation' he/she is using to keep themselves in power. They always have their own interpretations of whatever mainstream system they're leeching off, which are primarily concerned with serving the leader's personal agenda.
Oh gosh, look - you got me started.
I think Hitch had just the right amount of charisma to be influential that way, and enough social standing to lend him credibility with educated professionals. That he is dead center of what seems to be an ever-widening circle of people acting weirdly in this case does a lot to confirm this suspicion, with me.
Which would explain to me, point being, how/why Elfrieda would protect Hitch and/or believe whatever he told her happened.
Oh - and Barney was 60, say the papers. Hitting retirement age and running eight jobs for which he was paid collectively $200 pw. Was that a lot back then? A new season's fur-edged coat cost forty dollars or so. Six pounds of potatoes cost twenty five cents. Two hundred dollars a week sounds like a very decent wage, to me.
As to Barney and Hitch being close pals -- not sure on that one. Marie's research has turned up the snippet that the two were rivals for Barney's (lucrative) job(s). Elfrieda very well could have been 'planted' in that basement to make Barney look bad. Maybe he was mopping up, trying to get rid of any suggestion of culpability, while he assed around delaying her medical attention and so on, sifting ashes to look for planted evidence.
Just another in quite a long list of possibilities. Heh.
MarieMueller
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I don't think "Christ Within You" fit into EK's thinking much at all.
When the investigators find her diaries, they are boring. They don't give any clues. She talks a little bit about sales, and about how it has been 6 weeks since she saw "H." One does get the feeling that she had a crush on "H" in the snippets of the diaries I have read. But then there is a letter I found that she wrote Hitch that sounds to me like she is drawing away from him, as politely as possible. Anyhow, in the diaries, she says she is a bit bored.
If she was caught up in this New Age movement, forgive me, but I think the diaries would have been a bit more colorful.
Just like the key, it is not 100% clear how this book enters the case. It is only established that the book came somehow from Hitchcock.
Even if she did have the book, I hesitate to make a big connection with it. If someone were to go through my bookcase, they could find some passage that they could tangentially relate to a strange death (which I hope I do not have!). The connection is just too flimsy for me.
Even when this theory starts running through the press, there is a significant amount of articles that say that authorities find the theory deeply suspicious.
It's the press, or someone in the press, who magnifies the significance of "Christ Within You."
There were also a lot of books like this around at the time, as I think has already been pointed out. "The Man Nobody Knows" was a business-minded take on Jesus, if I remember correctly. Spirituality, self-improvement, and money making were on many people's minds, then as today.
For understanding EK's spirituality, I would start with her being *chosen* to be the Sunday schoolteacher at the First Presbyterian, her family's responsible and upright involvement in Deerfield's social and spiritual life, her friendship with the daughter of the pastor of the First Presbyterian, etc. This is documented and verified, whereas her connection to "Christ Within You" is a bit murkier. As for her peddling spiritual books, J.E. Compton sold all sorts of books, from educational to encyclopedias to general reading. If she was posting advertisements for spiritual readings, I imagine she did so because she knew there was a market for them.
This is just my take on the matter. I like to think that being responsible and sane and a bit eccentric can all go together, otherwise I am in trouble.
Of course people can have aspects to their lives that they do not make known to others, but I think this point should not be relied upon in an instance where many, many pieces of evidence point to an attack and a struggle.
As for Barney, I think of him being between a rock and a hard place.
Marie
When the investigators find her diaries, they are boring. They don't give any clues. She talks a little bit about sales, and about how it has been 6 weeks since she saw "H." One does get the feeling that she had a crush on "H" in the snippets of the diaries I have read. But then there is a letter I found that she wrote Hitch that sounds to me like she is drawing away from him, as politely as possible. Anyhow, in the diaries, she says she is a bit bored.
If she was caught up in this New Age movement, forgive me, but I think the diaries would have been a bit more colorful.
Just like the key, it is not 100% clear how this book enters the case. It is only established that the book came somehow from Hitchcock.
Even if she did have the book, I hesitate to make a big connection with it. If someone were to go through my bookcase, they could find some passage that they could tangentially relate to a strange death (which I hope I do not have!). The connection is just too flimsy for me.
Even when this theory starts running through the press, there is a significant amount of articles that say that authorities find the theory deeply suspicious.
It's the press, or someone in the press, who magnifies the significance of "Christ Within You."
There were also a lot of books like this around at the time, as I think has already been pointed out. "The Man Nobody Knows" was a business-minded take on Jesus, if I remember correctly. Spirituality, self-improvement, and money making were on many people's minds, then as today.
For understanding EK's spirituality, I would start with her being *chosen* to be the Sunday schoolteacher at the First Presbyterian, her family's responsible and upright involvement in Deerfield's social and spiritual life, her friendship with the daughter of the pastor of the First Presbyterian, etc. This is documented and verified, whereas her connection to "Christ Within You" is a bit murkier. As for her peddling spiritual books, J.E. Compton sold all sorts of books, from educational to encyclopedias to general reading. If she was posting advertisements for spiritual readings, I imagine she did so because she knew there was a market for them.
This is just my take on the matter. I like to think that being responsible and sane and a bit eccentric can all go together, otherwise I am in trouble.
Of course people can have aspects to their lives that they do not make known to others, but I think this point should not be relied upon in an instance where many, many pieces of evidence point to an attack and a struggle.
As for Barney, I think of him being between a rock and a hard place.
Marie
Of course, there's all those reports of Elfrieda being innately sensible. And it's plain to me that in many ways she was.
But -- then, what to make of her fling with Luella Roeh? And the bog-standard spiritualist dogma Elfrieda spouted in the hospital? Her preoccupation with 'spiritualism' and religion -- notably above and beyond the norm so far as to seem remarkable even by the standards of the very proper society she lived in? What about her untruthfulness as to who was present that night, to her own brother and the doctors, who were all soundly convinced she was hiding something?
None of that sounds the least bit boring. I wonder why her experiments with Luella didn't make it into those journals? Nor the "hell" she said Hitch pulled her out of three months prior to her injuries. It seems - forgive me - that there may have been a great deal that Elfrieda didn't detail in her diaries.
But the question which really throws a spanner in the works for me here is -- if she had such a boring life, and had gone cold on Hitch, then - why cover for him? Why would she cover for anybody who harmed her so badly (I am here offering H a kindness he hardly deserves in allowing for the slim chance that he had nothing to do with this after all)? Yes, we must allow for possible memory lapse, which is hardly unlikely -- but why not simply say she couldn't remember? Why did Elfrieda insist so strenuously that 'nobody else is to blame' and that she did this to herself?
That is the question that, to me, points squarely to some powerful manipulation going on. The kind that is not at all uncommon in cultish circles. And lo, here's Hitch recommending cultish books to his 'elocution' students. His 'salesmanship' and oh yes, 'advanced psychology' (a New Thought term for mesmerism, etc, as I have mentioned) classes. Here's Handsome Hitch, with half the Village women and local officials wrapped around his finger. To the point where, a year or so later, he does no real jail time for a burglary he openly confessed to committing while still employed as a police officer.
Things that make you go hmmmm...
.. I'm pretty sure nobody's disputing there was an attack and a struggle.
But -- then, what to make of her fling with Luella Roeh? And the bog-standard spiritualist dogma Elfrieda spouted in the hospital? Her preoccupation with 'spiritualism' and religion -- notably above and beyond the norm so far as to seem remarkable even by the standards of the very proper society she lived in? What about her untruthfulness as to who was present that night, to her own brother and the doctors, who were all soundly convinced she was hiding something?
None of that sounds the least bit boring. I wonder why her experiments with Luella didn't make it into those journals? Nor the "hell" she said Hitch pulled her out of three months prior to her injuries. It seems - forgive me - that there may have been a great deal that Elfrieda didn't detail in her diaries.
But the question which really throws a spanner in the works for me here is -- if she had such a boring life, and had gone cold on Hitch, then - why cover for him? Why would she cover for anybody who harmed her so badly (I am here offering H a kindness he hardly deserves in allowing for the slim chance that he had nothing to do with this after all)? Yes, we must allow for possible memory lapse, which is hardly unlikely -- but why not simply say she couldn't remember? Why did Elfrieda insist so strenuously that 'nobody else is to blame' and that she did this to herself?
That is the question that, to me, points squarely to some powerful manipulation going on. The kind that is not at all uncommon in cultish circles. And lo, here's Hitch recommending cultish books to his 'elocution' students. His 'salesmanship' and oh yes, 'advanced psychology' (a New Thought term for mesmerism, etc, as I have mentioned) classes. Here's Handsome Hitch, with half the Village women and local officials wrapped around his finger. To the point where, a year or so later, he does no real jail time for a burglary he openly confessed to committing while still employed as a police officer.
Things that make you go hmmmm...
.. I'm pretty sure nobody's disputing there was an attack and a struggle.
Marie
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Very fascinating mystery! Thanks for posting about it and including the articles you've found. Good discussions too! but it's very windy here so my connection is unreliable, not sure if I've missed anything or not.
I did make a quick search for records, if they're already here I apologize for the duplication.
Has the remark in the comment section below been discussed? That she has lived only 3 days in the city she died in... does that mean the city where the hospital is located or had she recently moved?
Illinois, Deaths and Stillbirths Index, 1916-1947 about Elfrieda Grace Knaak-
Name: Elfrieda Grace Knaak. Birth Date: 21 Sep 1898. Birth Place: Deerfield, Illinois. Death Date: 2 Nov 1928 Death Place: Lake Forest, Lake, Illinois. Burial Date: 5 Nov 1928. Burial Place: Deerfield, Ill. Death Age: 30. Occupation: School Teacher, Book Agnt. Race: White. Marital Status: S. Gender: Female. Residence: Deerfield, Illinois. Father Name: Theodor Ludwick Knaak. Father Birth Place: Curlin, Prussia, Germany. Mother Name: Elise Becker. Mother Birth Place: Weikartshein, Reasen, Germany. Comments: Resided 3d in city where death occurred. FHL Film Number: 1642927.
Also, not sure if this information will help or not but I often find that little tidbits lead to big bites ...
Interesting to note that her father is a doctor and her brother a pharmacist. Could she have taken drugs to lesson the pain of burning? Or been given drugs to make her more compliant?
1920 Census West Deerfield, Illinois, and other document extracts:
Theodore Ludwig Knaak, Head of Household, age 76, employed as a General Practice Physician. Type of Practice: Homeopathy. Degree from: The Hahnemann Medical College and Hospital, Chicago, 1882. Born Germany. Died December 1920 in Illinois.
Eliza [maiden name Becker], Wife, age 67, Wife, housewife, home keeper. Born Germany. Mother of 11 children, 9 deceased as of 1910. All of Theodore and Elise's children are born Illinois.
Amelia Emilie, Single, age 45, Daughter, employed as Drugstore Saleswoman/Clerk (her brother's shop). Never married. Died 1933 in Illinois.
Ida K, Single,age 43, Daughter, employed as Private Piano Music Teacher. Probably never married.
Theodore John, Single, age 39, Son, employed as Drug Store Pharmacist; owned his own Pharmacy. Died 1947 in Illinois. Probably never married.
Otto Henry, age 34, Son, Divorced from ??, Garage Shop Owner and later in Real Estate. Died in California 1967.
Elfrieda Grace, Single, age 21, Daughter, employed as a Grade School Teacher. Never married.
Other Children not living with parents, ages as of 1920:
Edward Charles 'Eddie', age 37, married, employed as a Railroad Bookkeeper.
Rudolph Robert, age 26, married. Employed as Auto Mechanic/Garage owner.
*Amanda, age 21, exactly 10 years older than Elfrieda, both born in September. I haven't found her yet in 1920 census but read note below.
Alvin William, age 20, he's quoted in a few of the news articles. Attending college in 1920, by 1930 he's married and employed as a General Practice Lawyer. He died 1948 in Washington state.
**Special note about Amanda: in 1930 she is a patient at the Chicago State Hospital aka Dunning Asylum, aka the Cook County Hospital for the Insane. I know that it's been mentioned that Elfrieda may have become unbalanced, but is it known what he sister suffered from?
Finally, Elfrieda's mother was 47 when she was born... any question as to her parentage? Both eldest sisters are plenty old enough to be her bio mother. I've seen plenty of older mother's on the census records, but just wondering...
Happy New Year everyone :woohoo:
I did make a quick search for records, if they're already here I apologize for the duplication.
Has the remark in the comment section below been discussed? That she has lived only 3 days in the city she died in... does that mean the city where the hospital is located or had she recently moved?
Illinois, Deaths and Stillbirths Index, 1916-1947 about Elfrieda Grace Knaak-
Name: Elfrieda Grace Knaak. Birth Date: 21 Sep 1898. Birth Place: Deerfield, Illinois. Death Date: 2 Nov 1928 Death Place: Lake Forest, Lake, Illinois. Burial Date: 5 Nov 1928. Burial Place: Deerfield, Ill. Death Age: 30. Occupation: School Teacher, Book Agnt. Race: White. Marital Status: S. Gender: Female. Residence: Deerfield, Illinois. Father Name: Theodor Ludwick Knaak. Father Birth Place: Curlin, Prussia, Germany. Mother Name: Elise Becker. Mother Birth Place: Weikartshein, Reasen, Germany. Comments: Resided 3d in city where death occurred. FHL Film Number: 1642927.
Also, not sure if this information will help or not but I often find that little tidbits lead to big bites ...
Interesting to note that her father is a doctor and her brother a pharmacist. Could she have taken drugs to lesson the pain of burning? Or been given drugs to make her more compliant?
1920 Census West Deerfield, Illinois, and other document extracts:
Theodore Ludwig Knaak, Head of Household, age 76, employed as a General Practice Physician. Type of Practice: Homeopathy. Degree from: The Hahnemann Medical College and Hospital, Chicago, 1882. Born Germany. Died December 1920 in Illinois.
Eliza [maiden name Becker], Wife, age 67, Wife, housewife, home keeper. Born Germany. Mother of 11 children, 9 deceased as of 1910. All of Theodore and Elise's children are born Illinois.
Amelia Emilie, Single, age 45, Daughter, employed as Drugstore Saleswoman/Clerk (her brother's shop). Never married. Died 1933 in Illinois.
Ida K, Single,age 43, Daughter, employed as Private Piano Music Teacher. Probably never married.
Theodore John, Single, age 39, Son, employed as Drug Store Pharmacist; owned his own Pharmacy. Died 1947 in Illinois. Probably never married.
Otto Henry, age 34, Son, Divorced from ??, Garage Shop Owner and later in Real Estate. Died in California 1967.
Elfrieda Grace, Single, age 21, Daughter, employed as a Grade School Teacher. Never married.
Other Children not living with parents, ages as of 1920:
Edward Charles 'Eddie', age 37, married, employed as a Railroad Bookkeeper.
Rudolph Robert, age 26, married. Employed as Auto Mechanic/Garage owner.
*Amanda, age 21, exactly 10 years older than Elfrieda, both born in September. I haven't found her yet in 1920 census but read note below.
Alvin William, age 20, he's quoted in a few of the news articles. Attending college in 1920, by 1930 he's married and employed as a General Practice Lawyer. He died 1948 in Washington state.
**Special note about Amanda: in 1930 she is a patient at the Chicago State Hospital aka Dunning Asylum, aka the Cook County Hospital for the Insane. I know that it's been mentioned that Elfrieda may have become unbalanced, but is it known what he sister suffered from?
Finally, Elfrieda's mother was 47 when she was born... any question as to her parentage? Both eldest sisters are plenty old enough to be her bio mother. I've seen plenty of older mother's on the census records, but just wondering...
Happy New Year everyone :woohoo:
Robin Hood
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Very Interesting Marie.
Edited to add - I think the hospital stay may have been refered to as the 3 days in the city.
Edited to add - I think the hospital stay may have been refered to as the 3 days in the city.
Belinda
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Just read the whole thread. Wow, just wow. You people would put Sherlock Holmes to shame. I am amazed (and more than a little envious) at your researching skills. We are talking about the 1920's here! How did you even know where to begin? This is the most fascinating case I have ever read about. Incredible job you have all done on this. I bow to your brilliance.
Personally, as far as her injuries, I am leaning toward the electrocution angle. It seems to make more sense than burning based on all of the physical evidence you have posted. I believe I read earlier that it has been discovered that the electricity was out on the basement level of the police station. Also, very interesting in light of the electrocution angle. I wonder if the electric hookup or machinery was in the same room as the furnace.
It would be very interesting to know if Hitch really had a broken leg. He makes sure that information is constantly prominent and I think there is a reason for that.
Personally, as far as her injuries, I am leaning toward the electrocution angle. It seems to make more sense than burning based on all of the physical evidence you have posted. I believe I read earlier that it has been discovered that the electricity was out on the basement level of the police station. Also, very interesting in light of the electrocution angle. I wonder if the electric hookup or machinery was in the same room as the furnace.
It would be very interesting to know if Hitch really had a broken leg. He makes sure that information is constantly prominent and I think there is a reason for that.
Stella, the really sad fact is, there's thousands of highly educated, otherwise sensible people who end up becoming firmly entrenched members of destructive cults (not all are 'destructive' in the sense of risking the physical or mental health of members, but all are dis-empowering to some degree). The Rick Ross website has testimonials from many ex-cult members who are doctors, priests, teachers, highly successful businesspersons.. It was a real shock to me, actually.
One thing Hitch didn't seem to do was come between the people he taught and their families, to the best of my knowledge. Most of the highly destructive cults will find a way to do that. So I'm not seeing him as being quite up there with the famous family-wrecking cults we've all heard about. But there's enough there to make me believe quite firmly that he was a grade-A manipulator. And, looking at his unbelievably selfish comments in the papers regarding Elfrieda and her tragedy, as well as his stealing from the people he was meant to protect, I'm happy to go out on a limb and call him a sociopath as well.
And the relevance of that to this case is: men like that are insidious in the way they control people. And many don't like giving up control, once they have it - and I do think at some point Hitch had a huge amount of influence over Elfrieda. While I do believe she didn't include everything in her journals, the possibility is there that she was, as Marie M. suggests, distancing herself from Hitch for a time.
But why then does she run to him, to tell him of her success that day? Why come to him with her problems? The dynamic of their relationship needs looking at, as I think it'll really help sorting through this mess of apparently conflicting facts. The truth is in there, somewhere, and that's one fact we can rely on.
It's nice to see some more people chiming in, here! Welcome to the thread, and Happy New Year everyone.
Belinda, speaking for myself, I think it's incredibly fortunate that there was so much press surrounding this case. Without that, I'd be a lot more in the dark than I am.
I think George Hargraves had a lot to do with how much information came out. He was well known for being 'indiscreet' that way, which didn't endear him to some police departments.
I'm still tracking down his case files.. might take a while. But I bet they're out there, somewhere.
Marie, wonderful post re Elfrieda's family members. Thanks for it! I wonder if she has some grand-nieces or -nephews who might be interested in this thread.
Belinda
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I absolutely agree with this statement. It is something that has always puzzled me, that such highly intelligent people can be taken in by a cult. I don't know if they have personal unhappiness that makes them look to fill a void or if the leaders of these cults are just that good at manipulation. I am curious where Hitch lands on that ladder of manipulation. Did he fashion himself a guru and just wasn't as good as he thought he was? Did he suddenly drop all of that after Elfrieda's death? Or is his cult connection a supposition?
Robin Hood
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Re. the electricity in the basement, without more info it's going to be hard to say if it was fused at the police station, maybe somebody removed/broke the bulb ?
Could be the substation behind the police station had been 'shorted' out.
I saw a heading in one of the pittsburgh news pages about storms in the area, must look for that again.
Who knows if anything else was being stored in the furnace room, could be it was removed PDQ before EK was given help.
Could be the substation behind the police station had been 'shorted' out.
I saw a heading in one of the pittsburgh news pages about storms in the area, must look for that again.
Who knows if anything else was being stored in the furnace room, could be it was removed PDQ before EK was given help.
Marie
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It is puzzling, understandable but puzzling. Whole countries fall under the spell of guru-ish leaders - Germany and North Korea being two examples.
And if Frieda had mental problems similar to those of her sister then it would have been that much easier for her to fall under someone else's influence. Burning yourself or covering up for someone else who burned you is itself proof that you're not all 100% there.
And if Frieda had mental problems similar to those of her sister then it would have been that much easier for her to fall under someone else's influence. Burning yourself or covering up for someone else who burned you is itself proof that you're not all 100% there.
This is what does my head in, though. Well, some of what does my head in, in this case.
MarieM has a point, in that Elfrieda was said by everyone who knew her to be a level-headed, quiet sort of girl, even if she was a little overly wrapped up in her spirituality. Yet, she had a secret side, I think, and liked to take risks, walk on the wild side somewhat (Luella, crushing on a married man, etc).
I notice her dad was a homeopathist, which says to me that her interest in 'alternative' beliefs might have come from having this background. Homeopathy was then, and is now, rather a contentious medical field. So to me, it seems less unusual now that she'd be drawn to 'advanced psychology' of Hitch's sort, this being a rather wild frontier of mental science at the time. Her sister's illness very well could have been the seed for that interest.
Anyhow, she doesn't strike me as being inherently unstable. What I can see is a predilection toward extending her beliefs outside the square and taking a few risks, and this is where I think she would have been vulnerable to Hitchcock and whatever guff he was teaching in his classes.
What I can't see is a devoted culty follower burning herself 'for love, for purity'. MM's right in that - Elfrieda seems way too 'together' to have planned to do anything so drastic.
But with a head injury, and ruptured blood vessels in her brain (noted by the guy who examined it), in terrible shock and with agonising burns, I -can- see her not having a clue how she came to be so horribly injured.
I can also see somebody filling in her blanks with their preferred version of events as she sat, burned half to a cinder, in that furnace room for hours on end - telling her a pile of guff, like that God would heal her soon.
Her family and various investigators believed she was drugged or mesmerised, and for good reason. Elfrieda wasn't screaming in pain at any time after her discovery. Her calmness and apparent lack of pain was notable (burns are horribly painful, and even with destroyed nerve endings in her extremities, there would have been peripheral burns not so deep, and she ought to have been in agony) and not a little eerie.
Once she got to the hospital, she'd have been drugged to the eyeballs. But this doesn't mean she was in lala-land and utterly delusional when she spoke. A couple years ago I suffered a spider bite that caused pain and injury at the equivalent of second- and third-degree burns to a limb (short version of long story: it hurt to the point that I was begging for them to amputate, which they didn't, thank goodness). Anyway, I was doped up to my eyeballs, too. I was on the maximum dose of morphine, in a drip, that was possibly allowable. That's the level right before it starts affecting your heart and lung function, and I was on that for about a month. And I was still in pain at times, and periodically quite alert and lucid. Now and then I saw some weird **** (a horde of tiny, smiling monkeys!) and rambled on a bit (and stole a wheelchair for a zoom around the hospital carpark at 2am..) but for the whole month and a half I was in the hospital, I'd say I was pretty lucid for most of it.
Point being, it seems there's something about being in terrible pain that makes drugs act differently than they would on a person who wasn't hurting. I take 1/60th of that dose now I'm not so in pain, and it'll knock me out cold.
Admittedly, I wasn't burned so badly, nor had I a head injury. But I believe, based on my experience, that Elfrieda was capable of being rational enough while on a heavy dose of drugs to lie about who else was present with her. Her confusion and changing stories were very likely (as somebody pointed out much earlier in this thread) to have come from her real memories returning in snatches, as well as her wish to believe whatever bulldust she was told about what happened and why. These blanks, imo, were likely cause by her head injuries, and possibly electrical shock too (says the exploded blood vessels in her brain, etc). Whether she was already drugged down in that basement, I can't know for sure. But it's a distinct possibility. I'd love to know exactly what that toxicologist said. But after three days of hospital painkillers, I don't know he'd have found any evidence of drugs prior to her being admitted.
Anyhow, what I mean to say is, I think it's possible that Elfrieda wasn't delusional when she got to Lake Bluff that night, and that a mixture of injury, shock and being told a pile of crap about how she came to be hurt contributed to the slew of strange stories and changing details she gave in hospital.
"Did they do it? If they did it, then why?" -- this could have been a flash of real memory, from before her injuries and a subsequent mental blank (not unusual at all for people hurt so badly, especially by electricity/blunt force head wounds). I can imagine such a memory would be distressing, in the extreme, if she'd been hurt by a person or persons she knew and trusted.
Gosh, talk about rambling. My apologies.
Robin, I'd LOVE to know how the power was hooked up, back then, to that basement, and from where.
MarieMueller
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But -- then, what to make of her fling with Luella Roeh?
This was not proven, only speculated upon in the media blitz. Again, there is evidence that Luella had some fixation upon her, but there is no evidence that anything else happened between them except talk (all of which comes from Luella). Elfrieda was having dinner with Luella and her husband and family, which isn't the most scandalous thing I can imagine.
Even if she did have a fling, I don't consider homosexuality or bisexuality evidence of mental instability or insensibility. Unusual to admit openly for the times, that is sure, and it definitely added to the sensationalism which sold more papers.
I still have my questions surrounding Luella Roeh's entrance into the picture, after the inquest, at least three weeks after the discovery in the furnace room.
How do we know where the sensationalism ends and the real story begins?
Again, who is telling us what she said?
Officer Spaid gave an account to his son of staying by her bedside from the moment she was discovered until she died. He told his son that much that was printed about her and the case was sheer sensationalism, including her bed-ridden utterances. The one thing he did hear her say beyond a shadow of a doubt was "Hitch." That is it. No long confessions of purity and sacrifice, no mentionings of not being in any pain, or being friends with anyone in a spiritual way.
Given that he seems to be the most credible source available, and he dismissed most if not all of the utterances that the journalists (who never saw or heard directly from her in the hospital alive) ascribe to her, why should we trust these newspapers' accounts over what she wrote in her private journal and the accounts of what she was like before this horrible incident happened?
I can imagine several reasons why she might not have wanted to say what had really happened to anyone at the hospital.
We can go back and forth about this, which sources and which articles to trust more and why. I make my points on my blog as to why you have to approach the info that the articles give with a lot of caution, but everyone in this forum is free to make their own choices as to which sources and articles they find the most logical to trust.
This was not proven, only speculated upon in the media blitz. Again, there is evidence that Luella had some fixation upon her, but there is no evidence that anything else happened between them except talk (all of which comes from Luella). Elfrieda was having dinner with Luella and her husband and family, which isn't the most scandalous thing I can imagine.
Even if she did have a fling, I don't consider homosexuality or bisexuality evidence of mental instability or insensibility. Unusual to admit openly for the times, that is sure, and it definitely added to the sensationalism which sold more papers.
I still have my questions surrounding Luella Roeh's entrance into the picture, after the inquest, at least three weeks after the discovery in the furnace room.
How do we know where the sensationalism ends and the real story begins?
Again, who is telling us what she said?
Officer Spaid gave an account to his son of staying by her bedside from the moment she was discovered until she died. He told his son that much that was printed about her and the case was sheer sensationalism, including her bed-ridden utterances. The one thing he did hear her say beyond a shadow of a doubt was "Hitch." That is it. No long confessions of purity and sacrifice, no mentionings of not being in any pain, or being friends with anyone in a spiritual way.
Given that he seems to be the most credible source available, and he dismissed most if not all of the utterances that the journalists (who never saw or heard directly from her in the hospital alive) ascribe to her, why should we trust these newspapers' accounts over what she wrote in her private journal and the accounts of what she was like before this horrible incident happened?
I can imagine several reasons why she might not have wanted to say what had really happened to anyone at the hospital.
We can go back and forth about this, which sources and which articles to trust more and why. I make my points on my blog as to why you have to approach the info that the articles give with a lot of caution, but everyone in this forum is free to make their own choices as to which sources and articles they find the most logical to trust.