Welcome to Ws fasteddy8170, thanks for a great post and thought provoking comments!
IL IL - Jesse Ross, 20, Chicago, 21 Nov 2006
- Thread starter JustUsJones
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Welcome to Ws fasteddy8170, thanks for a great post and thought provoking comments!
Actually just found a link with interesting comments about a visitor having a close call with taxi driver in Chicago, Jesse is referenced too!
http://www.mylifetime.com/shows/van...episode-tips/season-1/episode-6-kopetsky-ross
Also repost of book written by Jesse's Dad....
http://www.amazon.com/Wheres-Opie-Vanished-Donald-Ross/dp/146208303X
"Where's Opie? allows the reader to ride along with a family of a missing person, Jesse 'Opie' Ross, learn details of his disappearance in Chicago; Share the experiences of a family suddenly thrust into the reality of having a missing son. Learn what it is like day to day, living with this reality and finding the courage to go on. From the beginning, in shock, learning as you go, you will learn how such an event affects the family, friends, law enforcement, strangers soon to become friends, and even those who would attempt to profit in some way from a family's loss. You will see how a family finds strength in faith and in the love and support of both friends and family. Many people go through life thinking "it couldn't happen to me" . You do not have to be 'bad' people for bad things to happen; It is often a fickle world and no one is exempt, as you will learn within the pages of this book. Not a work of fiction, but the first hand story by those who live it"
http://www.mylifetime.com/shows/van...episode-tips/season-1/episode-6-kopetsky-ross
Also repost of book written by Jesse's Dad....
http://www.amazon.com/Wheres-Opie-Vanished-Donald-Ross/dp/146208303X
"Where's Opie? allows the reader to ride along with a family of a missing person, Jesse 'Opie' Ross, learn details of his disappearance in Chicago; Share the experiences of a family suddenly thrust into the reality of having a missing son. Learn what it is like day to day, living with this reality and finding the courage to go on. From the beginning, in shock, learning as you go, you will learn how such an event affects the family, friends, law enforcement, strangers soon to become friends, and even those who would attempt to profit in some way from a family's loss. You will see how a family finds strength in faith and in the love and support of both friends and family. Many people go through life thinking "it couldn't happen to me" . You do not have to be 'bad' people for bad things to happen; It is often a fickle world and no one is exempt, as you will learn within the pages of this book. Not a work of fiction, but the first hand story by those who live it"
Random thoughts..
What are the chances that someone recently promoted at a radio job where " disappearances" are staged, and who attends a " mock U.N. emergency meeting"
actually goes missing?!
A prank or publicity stunt gone very wrong?
As a DJay, Jesse may have been interested in the hotel's sound, lighting and video systems, possibly he sought out the technical booth.
If he did, he might have gone into areas not normally used or known, with some kind of accident ensuing...Has the hotel's every nook and cranny been searched? imo.
What are the chances that someone recently promoted at a radio job where " disappearances" are staged, and who attends a " mock U.N. emergency meeting"
actually goes missing?!
A prank or publicity stunt gone very wrong?
As a DJay, Jesse may have been interested in the hotel's sound, lighting and video systems, possibly he sought out the technical booth.
If he did, he might have gone into areas not normally used or known, with some kind of accident ensuing...Has the hotel's every nook and cranny been searched? imo.
fasteddy8170
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I read that link about the taxi driver. I'm not saying that story didn't happen since I wasn't there, but it sounds at best sketchy to me. If there's a follow-up where the driver was caught and the story was proven, then I stand corrected. Until then I'm going to dismiss it.
I realize this isn't the most active thread on websleuths but I'd like to get answers to those previous questions, if anybody has them. But I have a few more:
Question 1. Did Jesse volunteer for this trip? Did he win it? Was it mandatory? I'd like to know more about how he got to go. Was it class credit? Did he pay for it? His parents? Free? I'd like to know everything I can about the circumstances involving the trip.
Question 2. How far in advance did he know he was going to Chicago? A month? Two months?
Question 3. How "important" was this U.N. conference? I don't know what goes on at one of these things but if Jesse missed a meeting or a seminar or whatever, how much trouble would he have been in?
Question 4. Did he know anybody in Chicago before going there? A friend from high school maybe?
Comment 1: I've read a lot about the case since I posted before and I'm struck that the break at 2:30am was for a half hour. That sounds like a long time but it's not. If the walk is 10 minutes each way to his hotel, that gives him 10 minutes to do whatever he was going to do in his room. Who walks in 27 degree weather for a total of 20 minutes just to go back to his hotel? I've not read that he forgot anything there.
Comment 2: I read somewhere that his roommate or somebody else there at the conference suspected Jesse went back to the room to sleep. Well, that infers that Jesse had no intention of coming back to the emergency conference at all. Could he have gotten away with that? Would anybody give him a hard time about not returning? In fact, the person's response signals to me that he/she might've thought Jesse might do something like that--skip the rest of that night. Did anybody else skip the rest of that night after the break? And I don't mean that question the way you might think. What I mean is if everybody else came back after the break, obviously they all thought it was important. So, why would somebody when asked why they thought Jesse didn't return, the person said he/she suspected Jesse went to bed (meaning: he blew it off.) So, they all thought it important but Jesse didn't? interesting. And weird.
Comment 3: Speaking of which, did anybody else miss the part of the meeting after the 2:30am break? This time it's meant the way you might think . . . Did anybody miss the entire meeting? I wonder about that as well.
Comment 4: The reason I ask all the questions about the circumstances regarding how Jesse got to go on this trip is because if he indeed committed suicide then he must have been thinking about it for a long time. It's not like he found out he was going to Chicago and said: Hey, now I feel like ending my life. Granted, I realize the police have been through all his stuff since then (well, I'm taking that for granted) but it would seem to me somebody might do at least one Interent search (I guess it would've been Yahoo or something like that in 2006) on Chicago if the plan is to jump into the river or lake there. I just doubt somebody goes to Chicago cold-turkey without knowing anything about the place and decides to jump in the water.
Comment 5: The part that continues to bother me the most about this whole case is how he was dressed. I realize teenagers do stupid things but wearing what he was wearing on that night is lethal. If you're wearing what he was wearing and get lost in a forest at that temperature, you'll die from hypothermia--no doubt in my mind. I'm wondering this: He decides to go back to his hotel for whatever reason, once he gets outside he suddenly realizes how cold it is, he starts running, tries to jaywalk through intersection, gets hit by a car with a driver who already has problems with law (despite it being Jesse's fault technically), scoops up body and takes off. I know: The chances are pretty remote.
Comment 6: Another issue I have. Let's say Jesse intended to commit suicide by drowning. Could he swim? Because even though his intention might be to drown himself, drowning yourself is fairly difficult if you can swim. Why? Because it's a slow process that you yourself can prevent because you know how to swim. There's a survival instinct involved that may keep you afloat. Remember: Bridge jumpers don't die from drowning, they die from hitting the water from a high height. Now, if he couldn't swim, then yes it's easy to drown. Also, if he was inebriated, which I don't think he was, that could also factor into it. But wait--he's sober enough to find his way to the water despite him being blocks away from it but drunk enough to drown himself? That seems like a contradiction. All those young men who've drowned (the smiley face killers, if you believe that) were near water on their walk to wherever they were going. Jesse's walk, although close to water, doesn't take him along any water way.
Comment 6a: So, continuing this: As he is heading toward the water in a suicide attempt he has to know that within the next half hour the meeting is going to start again and he's not going to be there. He has to assume (and this goes to how important/unimportant the meeting was) that the others will wonder where he is. In fact, somebody might just get worried enough to try to track him down at say 3:10am. Somebody might call him--and he might be guilted enough to pick it up. So, he has a very small timeframe in which to make his attempt. So, he can't go far. Plus, he doesn't know what he's going to find when he gets to the point where he decides to go into the water--due to the temperature, he's a little limited if his plan gets altered. What if there's a couple of late night lovers in a car parked? A couple cops talking to each other with one car beside the other? Night time construction work? The list goes on and on and on. The time and weather really limit his choices--no matter if he took a taxi, bus or walked. Taxi and bus have a time factor. Walking has a temperature and time factor.
Comment 7: I know this is getting long but this thread is a little dead anyway, and maybe this will get the juices flowing for this case again. If Jesse's goal was to commit suicide, why not just do it where he went to school? Doing it on a trip seems like a big plan with a lot of working parts. Granted, Jesse's still disappeared but there's no way he could've predicted that beforehand if he intended to drown himself--for example. If he wanted to drown himself, once again for example, couldn't he have found a river close to home? Yes, I know--maybe he didn't want his body to be found and doing it in a river would make that much more of an impossibility. On the other hand, there's no way he could know his body wouldn't be found by 2014 if he did jump into the chicago river or the lake. Even if he wanted to make it look like an accident, everybody's going to say: Wasn't he supposed to be at that U.N. meeting? What was he doing near the water? His walk back to his hotel doesn't take him along the water. So, there's not even the chance he could make it look like an accident. Remember: this was before the Smiley Face thing started. So, in the end, everyone would kind of suspect he committed suicide. Thus, why not just do it in his hometown?
I know this is like an involved logical process but if you study suicides, as I have, you find they aren't done on spur of the moment. A lot of planning goes into them--even for people who choke themselves on shower rods, they at least check to see if the bar supports their weight. It's the exact reason so many suicide victims seem so calm/happy/content before they carry out their plan: They've already decided to do it , they know it's going to work, and they can't wait to leave this life.
As an example, I have a friend who's an EMT in my city. Told me the story of a woman who jumped off a high bridge and killed herself. He was at the scene after it happened. The woman was on her way to work. Stopped in middle of bridge and jumped. The kicker? 15 minutes before she jumped, she bought coffee at the same exact place she always bought coffee on the way to work. And . . . the coffee cup was half empty and still warm when police got there.
This story tells me a lot. And I try to equate it to Jesse's case. People don't commit suicides on vacations. Or business trips. They commit suicide at home or some place familiar to them--a bridge they pass over every day, jumping off the roof where they work, a cabin they used to spend every summer at, at home, etc. Why? Because they want to decrease the variables--they don't want anything unexpected to pop up. So, Jesse taking his own life in Chicago--a foreign land to him? It doesn't ring true. Not saying it's impossible but it doesn't go along with percentages and the history of suicide.
I'm still left wondering what happens if the U.N. emergency meeting never happens. You have to think of it this way: If the students didn't know the meeting was going to happen, they didn't know the break was going to happen at 2:30am. So, if the break doesn't happen, does Jesse still leave? He couldn't have made any plans to meet anyone at 2:30am outside the hotel because he probably wouldn't have known there was going to be a break at 2:30am until he got to the emergency meeting. And there's no evidence of him contacting anyone. And I don't believe if it was his intention to meet someone that night, that the meeting break and the rendezvous time would just so happen to be so close together? That's a heck of a coincidence. Furthermore, all that was going on before that emergency meeting was a party. Why not slip out then to meet someone? Why wait until 2:30am when surely everyone would notice you're not there anymore?
I think that's it. Just trying to throw some ideas out there. If anyone has any 100% true answers to my questions, I'd appreciate it.
I realize this isn't the most active thread on websleuths but I'd like to get answers to those previous questions, if anybody has them. But I have a few more:
Question 1. Did Jesse volunteer for this trip? Did he win it? Was it mandatory? I'd like to know more about how he got to go. Was it class credit? Did he pay for it? His parents? Free? I'd like to know everything I can about the circumstances involving the trip.
Question 2. How far in advance did he know he was going to Chicago? A month? Two months?
Question 3. How "important" was this U.N. conference? I don't know what goes on at one of these things but if Jesse missed a meeting or a seminar or whatever, how much trouble would he have been in?
Question 4. Did he know anybody in Chicago before going there? A friend from high school maybe?
Comment 1: I've read a lot about the case since I posted before and I'm struck that the break at 2:30am was for a half hour. That sounds like a long time but it's not. If the walk is 10 minutes each way to his hotel, that gives him 10 minutes to do whatever he was going to do in his room. Who walks in 27 degree weather for a total of 20 minutes just to go back to his hotel? I've not read that he forgot anything there.
Comment 2: I read somewhere that his roommate or somebody else there at the conference suspected Jesse went back to the room to sleep. Well, that infers that Jesse had no intention of coming back to the emergency conference at all. Could he have gotten away with that? Would anybody give him a hard time about not returning? In fact, the person's response signals to me that he/she might've thought Jesse might do something like that--skip the rest of that night. Did anybody else skip the rest of that night after the break? And I don't mean that question the way you might think. What I mean is if everybody else came back after the break, obviously they all thought it was important. So, why would somebody when asked why they thought Jesse didn't return, the person said he/she suspected Jesse went to bed (meaning: he blew it off.) So, they all thought it important but Jesse didn't? interesting. And weird.
Comment 3: Speaking of which, did anybody else miss the part of the meeting after the 2:30am break? This time it's meant the way you might think . . . Did anybody miss the entire meeting? I wonder about that as well.
Comment 4: The reason I ask all the questions about the circumstances regarding how Jesse got to go on this trip is because if he indeed committed suicide then he must have been thinking about it for a long time. It's not like he found out he was going to Chicago and said: Hey, now I feel like ending my life. Granted, I realize the police have been through all his stuff since then (well, I'm taking that for granted) but it would seem to me somebody might do at least one Interent search (I guess it would've been Yahoo or something like that in 2006) on Chicago if the plan is to jump into the river or lake there. I just doubt somebody goes to Chicago cold-turkey without knowing anything about the place and decides to jump in the water.
Comment 5: The part that continues to bother me the most about this whole case is how he was dressed. I realize teenagers do stupid things but wearing what he was wearing on that night is lethal. If you're wearing what he was wearing and get lost in a forest at that temperature, you'll die from hypothermia--no doubt in my mind. I'm wondering this: He decides to go back to his hotel for whatever reason, once he gets outside he suddenly realizes how cold it is, he starts running, tries to jaywalk through intersection, gets hit by a car with a driver who already has problems with law (despite it being Jesse's fault technically), scoops up body and takes off. I know: The chances are pretty remote.
Comment 6: Another issue I have. Let's say Jesse intended to commit suicide by drowning. Could he swim? Because even though his intention might be to drown himself, drowning yourself is fairly difficult if you can swim. Why? Because it's a slow process that you yourself can prevent because you know how to swim. There's a survival instinct involved that may keep you afloat. Remember: Bridge jumpers don't die from drowning, they die from hitting the water from a high height. Now, if he couldn't swim, then yes it's easy to drown. Also, if he was inebriated, which I don't think he was, that could also factor into it. But wait--he's sober enough to find his way to the water despite him being blocks away from it but drunk enough to drown himself? That seems like a contradiction. All those young men who've drowned (the smiley face killers, if you believe that) were near water on their walk to wherever they were going. Jesse's walk, although close to water, doesn't take him along any water way.
Comment 6a: So, continuing this: As he is heading toward the water in a suicide attempt he has to know that within the next half hour the meeting is going to start again and he's not going to be there. He has to assume (and this goes to how important/unimportant the meeting was) that the others will wonder where he is. In fact, somebody might just get worried enough to try to track him down at say 3:10am. Somebody might call him--and he might be guilted enough to pick it up. So, he has a very small timeframe in which to make his attempt. So, he can't go far. Plus, he doesn't know what he's going to find when he gets to the point where he decides to go into the water--due to the temperature, he's a little limited if his plan gets altered. What if there's a couple of late night lovers in a car parked? A couple cops talking to each other with one car beside the other? Night time construction work? The list goes on and on and on. The time and weather really limit his choices--no matter if he took a taxi, bus or walked. Taxi and bus have a time factor. Walking has a temperature and time factor.
Comment 7: I know this is getting long but this thread is a little dead anyway, and maybe this will get the juices flowing for this case again. If Jesse's goal was to commit suicide, why not just do it where he went to school? Doing it on a trip seems like a big plan with a lot of working parts. Granted, Jesse's still disappeared but there's no way he could've predicted that beforehand if he intended to drown himself--for example. If he wanted to drown himself, once again for example, couldn't he have found a river close to home? Yes, I know--maybe he didn't want his body to be found and doing it in a river would make that much more of an impossibility. On the other hand, there's no way he could know his body wouldn't be found by 2014 if he did jump into the chicago river or the lake. Even if he wanted to make it look like an accident, everybody's going to say: Wasn't he supposed to be at that U.N. meeting? What was he doing near the water? His walk back to his hotel doesn't take him along the water. So, there's not even the chance he could make it look like an accident. Remember: this was before the Smiley Face thing started. So, in the end, everyone would kind of suspect he committed suicide. Thus, why not just do it in his hometown?
I know this is like an involved logical process but if you study suicides, as I have, you find they aren't done on spur of the moment. A lot of planning goes into them--even for people who choke themselves on shower rods, they at least check to see if the bar supports their weight. It's the exact reason so many suicide victims seem so calm/happy/content before they carry out their plan: They've already decided to do it , they know it's going to work, and they can't wait to leave this life.
As an example, I have a friend who's an EMT in my city. Told me the story of a woman who jumped off a high bridge and killed herself. He was at the scene after it happened. The woman was on her way to work. Stopped in middle of bridge and jumped. The kicker? 15 minutes before she jumped, she bought coffee at the same exact place she always bought coffee on the way to work. And . . . the coffee cup was half empty and still warm when police got there.
This story tells me a lot. And I try to equate it to Jesse's case. People don't commit suicides on vacations. Or business trips. They commit suicide at home or some place familiar to them--a bridge they pass over every day, jumping off the roof where they work, a cabin they used to spend every summer at, at home, etc. Why? Because they want to decrease the variables--they don't want anything unexpected to pop up. So, Jesse taking his own life in Chicago--a foreign land to him? It doesn't ring true. Not saying it's impossible but it doesn't go along with percentages and the history of suicide.
I'm still left wondering what happens if the U.N. emergency meeting never happens. You have to think of it this way: If the students didn't know the meeting was going to happen, they didn't know the break was going to happen at 2:30am. So, if the break doesn't happen, does Jesse still leave? He couldn't have made any plans to meet anyone at 2:30am outside the hotel because he probably wouldn't have known there was going to be a break at 2:30am until he got to the emergency meeting. And there's no evidence of him contacting anyone. And I don't believe if it was his intention to meet someone that night, that the meeting break and the rendezvous time would just so happen to be so close together? That's a heck of a coincidence. Furthermore, all that was going on before that emergency meeting was a party. Why not slip out then to meet someone? Why wait until 2:30am when surely everyone would notice you're not there anymore?
I think that's it. Just trying to throw some ideas out there. If anyone has any 100% true answers to my questions, I'd appreciate it.
fasteddy8170
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So, nobody has any answers to any of my questions yet regarding how Jesse got to go to Chicago or if he was on any medication? Well dang, this is a tough room. That's fine. I'll keep writing and maybe something will catch somebody's fancy.
I'm wondering if Jesse got to leave home very often on trips like the one to Chicago. The reason I wonder is this: One time, long ago, I was 19 and in college. I remember running into many students who didn't exactly know how to handle their new-found freedom of being away from home without parents looking over their shoulder. For me it wasn't any big deal because my parents gave me quite a bit of freedom. But for some of these kids, they came in their freshman year with wire-rim glasses and pocket protectors, within a semester they had long hair, beards, and The Cure posters on their walls. You know what I mean? And a lot of them did things they never would've considered a year before that.
This leads me to the question about Jesse being on medication. If he was in fact drinking underage--not judging here, just proposing it as a possibility--the interaction between alcohol and certain mood controlling drugs is usually not a good one. If Jesse allowed himself to get footloose and fancy-free on that last night of the trip, combined with a possible (I don't know one way or the other-that's why I'm asking) regiment of prescribed drugs, it could've put his brain in a state where he might've not known where he was going when he left that room. Sure, it might've seemed to the others like it was the same old Jesse. But in his mind he might've been losing control of his faculties.
What leads me to this? I keep coming back to what he was wearing--no one in their right might would've left that hotel dressed like that.
I should say for the record: I don't drink or use any medication but I've seen the effects of the combo. In fact I've seen the effects of someone who was on anti-depressants but their prescription got altered. The person is "there" but isn't there . . .you know what I mean? I wonder if somehow Jesse was in a similar state. I'm not saying he did any illegal drugs. I'm just wondering if some kind of bad combo of alcohol and legal drugs changed his perception of reality.
I'm wondering if Jesse got to leave home very often on trips like the one to Chicago. The reason I wonder is this: One time, long ago, I was 19 and in college. I remember running into many students who didn't exactly know how to handle their new-found freedom of being away from home without parents looking over their shoulder. For me it wasn't any big deal because my parents gave me quite a bit of freedom. But for some of these kids, they came in their freshman year with wire-rim glasses and pocket protectors, within a semester they had long hair, beards, and The Cure posters on their walls. You know what I mean? And a lot of them did things they never would've considered a year before that.
This leads me to the question about Jesse being on medication. If he was in fact drinking underage--not judging here, just proposing it as a possibility--the interaction between alcohol and certain mood controlling drugs is usually not a good one. If Jesse allowed himself to get footloose and fancy-free on that last night of the trip, combined with a possible (I don't know one way or the other-that's why I'm asking) regiment of prescribed drugs, it could've put his brain in a state where he might've not known where he was going when he left that room. Sure, it might've seemed to the others like it was the same old Jesse. But in his mind he might've been losing control of his faculties.
What leads me to this? I keep coming back to what he was wearing--no one in their right might would've left that hotel dressed like that.
I should say for the record: I don't drink or use any medication but I've seen the effects of the combo. In fact I've seen the effects of someone who was on anti-depressants but their prescription got altered. The person is "there" but isn't there . . .you know what I mean? I wonder if somehow Jesse was in a similar state. I'm not saying he did any illegal drugs. I'm just wondering if some kind of bad combo of alcohol and legal drugs changed his perception of reality.
Thanks for the great posts, sorry I am not as on top of this case as others here , and was hoping one of them might jump in!
As for the " altered state " scenario presented above, that sounds very plausible... under those conditions, I can see how he may have fallen in water, if Jesse ended up in the water, can he still be found?
fasteddy8170
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dotr, I'm not convinced he ended up in the water. I know that flies in the face of a lot people who've taken interest in the case but I have a few reasons for my beliefs:
1. The physics of dead human bodies in water is fairly understood.
2. The bodies of water around Chicago--whether the river or the lake--are fairly consistent, having the same depth and currents from day to day.
3. Chicago police and fire have extensive experience searching for bodies in those waters.
4. Jesse would've had to have gone out of his way (as I detailed in a long post above) to get to one of those bodies of water.
5. Most people who fall into a body of water and drown are found--it's a larger percentage than people may think. The only exception I can think of is people who fall off cruise ships--it's a very low percentage chance to finding those people for various reasons: depth of water, sharks, large search area. None of those reasons is relevant here.
I'm thinking Jesse's disappearance is much like the vanishing of Marizela Perez in Seattle. Middle of the day, safe neighborhood, on video going to a convenience store while on the way to school, and poof, gone. On the surface I know the two cases don't seem similar. But both are the same for key reasons:
1. Both are people who seemingly have no reason to disappear or possibly commit suicide.
2. They're both seen on video shortly before they disappear.
3. In that video they seem to be acting normally.
4. They're both in areas where you wouldn't expect someone to disappear.
In Marizela's case (and this is the reason I ask about Jesse's mental and physical state) she was a known depression sufferer. And although millions of people in the USA take that medication, it's not like taking an insulin shot where the chemistry of it is easy to understand. Anti-depressants and the like are somewhat hit and miss--they'll work for months then they suddenly they won't. I've theorized this is what happened to Marizela--that something happened with her medication for her to kind of just "walk off" despite her seeming fine in the video.
In Jesse, I'm thinking it's the same thing. Now, where he went? Where he ended up? I don't know. Marizela, by the way, is still missing. But people having some kind of mental break due to brain medication isn't unusual--yes, rare--but not unheard of. Of course, if I could get someone to tell me Jesse wasn't on such medication it would help me move away from the theory. But we shouldn't underestimate the amount of prescribed drugs teenagers--especially boys (Ritalin for example)--are on.
1. The physics of dead human bodies in water is fairly understood.
2. The bodies of water around Chicago--whether the river or the lake--are fairly consistent, having the same depth and currents from day to day.
3. Chicago police and fire have extensive experience searching for bodies in those waters.
4. Jesse would've had to have gone out of his way (as I detailed in a long post above) to get to one of those bodies of water.
5. Most people who fall into a body of water and drown are found--it's a larger percentage than people may think. The only exception I can think of is people who fall off cruise ships--it's a very low percentage chance to finding those people for various reasons: depth of water, sharks, large search area. None of those reasons is relevant here.
I'm thinking Jesse's disappearance is much like the vanishing of Marizela Perez in Seattle. Middle of the day, safe neighborhood, on video going to a convenience store while on the way to school, and poof, gone. On the surface I know the two cases don't seem similar. But both are the same for key reasons:
1. Both are people who seemingly have no reason to disappear or possibly commit suicide.
2. They're both seen on video shortly before they disappear.
3. In that video they seem to be acting normally.
4. They're both in areas where you wouldn't expect someone to disappear.
In Marizela's case (and this is the reason I ask about Jesse's mental and physical state) she was a known depression sufferer. And although millions of people in the USA take that medication, it's not like taking an insulin shot where the chemistry of it is easy to understand. Anti-depressants and the like are somewhat hit and miss--they'll work for months then they suddenly they won't. I've theorized this is what happened to Marizela--that something happened with her medication for her to kind of just "walk off" despite her seeming fine in the video.
In Jesse, I'm thinking it's the same thing. Now, where he went? Where he ended up? I don't know. Marizela, by the way, is still missing. But people having some kind of mental break due to brain medication isn't unusual--yes, rare--but not unheard of. Of course, if I could get someone to tell me Jesse wasn't on such medication it would help me move away from the theory. But we shouldn't underestimate the amount of prescribed drugs teenagers--especially boys (Ritalin for example)--are on.
If Jesse was taking medication/drugs of any kind, his medication schedule, if he had one, could be thrown off by the travel and the middle of the night " U.N.Emergency " and caused some kind of problem.
Wonder if it is the same kind of thing that happened in the case of a young university student who traveled to LA and unbelievably, ended up deceased in the hotel's rooftop water tank ?...
Will take a look and see if I can find a thread on the Marizela case mentioned in above post.
Hoping that Jesse is still alive somewhere, perhaps after having a breakdown of some sort.. say, living incognito in Costa Rico, and not a victim of foul play.
Any chance 'Opie " staged a "find Opie" disappearance and something went very wrong?
Jesse seems to be very close to his family and obviously is well loved, wondering if Jesse's family would accept him if for whatever reason his lifestyle and or belief system changed?
Wonder if it is the same kind of thing that happened in the case of a young university student who traveled to LA and unbelievably, ended up deceased in the hotel's rooftop water tank ?...
Will take a look and see if I can find a thread on the Marizela case mentioned in above post.
Hoping that Jesse is still alive somewhere, perhaps after having a breakdown of some sort.. say, living incognito in Costa Rico, and not a victim of foul play.
Any chance 'Opie " staged a "find Opie" disappearance and something went very wrong?
Jesse seems to be very close to his family and obviously is well loved, wondering if Jesse's family would accept him if for whatever reason his lifestyle and or belief system changed?
RubyRed
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The link below shows the crime statistics for Chicago from Jan. - Nov. 2006. If you open the file it also shows a detailed map of each district. Which area was he in when he went missing. Also where are the billboards located, I travel in around and through Chicago on a regular basis and have never seen them.
To be honest this is a city where in a minute you can be in an area, you really do not want to be in. I have been there and done it in my truck. Not the safest city to be out alone in especially when you are not familiar with it, and the gang activity that is there.
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/po... Crime Statistics/2006 Index Crime Statistics
his FB page, a few updates on things they have planned. (Planning on opiefest 2014 in Nov.)
https://www.facebook.com/jesseopieross
To be honest this is a city where in a minute you can be in an area, you really do not want to be in. I have been there and done it in my truck. Not the safest city to be out alone in especially when you are not familiar with it, and the gang activity that is there.
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/po... Crime Statistics/2006 Index Crime Statistics
his FB page, a few updates on things they have planned. (Planning on opiefest 2014 in Nov.)
https://www.facebook.com/jesseopieross
RubyRed
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Two articles that have good info in them and may help answer questions that have been asked.
http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t17039.htm (Tells of similar cases, and Matthew Soumakis. Interestingly enough, the man had been staying at the same hotel where Jesse Ross was last seen.
)
http://peace4missing.ning.com/group/jesseross/forum/topics/university-of-missouri-student
Is the pic of him on video available to see, I cannot find it, thanks
http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t17039.htm (Tells of similar cases, and Matthew Soumakis. Interestingly enough, the man had been staying at the same hotel where Jesse Ross was last seen.
)
http://peace4missing.ning.com/group/jesseross/forum/topics/university-of-missouri-student
Is the pic of him on video available to see, I cannot find it, thanks
fasteddy8170
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RubyRed, thanks for the those links. I completely, completely, completely forgot Jesse had problems in Chicago before. When I read that in the one link I was like, "Oh yeah . . . I remember that now." But doesn't that fact make it even more weird he might've left the hotel at 2:30 in the morning?
Is it possible he wanted to take night pics again and got mugged . . . again? If so, Jesse has to have the worst luck ever. I know Chicago's a dangerous place but getting mugged twice in the same year defies all my sensibilities. Hey, anything's possible but . . .
I'm just throwing this out there until I get some more time to think about it: Could it be that first mugging in 2005 bothered Jesse? Maybe made him feel weak and insecure . . . something like that. And to get over it, he told himself: I'm going out in the Chicago streets--I'm not going to let criminals keep me in fear. You know, kind of like jumping back on a horse after getting thrown. And maybe he took it a little too far . . .
As for all those drownings in Chicago, it should be noted: All those men were found. Jesse hasn't been. It lends more to the idea of he didn't end up in the water.
Is it possible he wanted to take night pics again and got mugged . . . again? If so, Jesse has to have the worst luck ever. I know Chicago's a dangerous place but getting mugged twice in the same year defies all my sensibilities. Hey, anything's possible but . . .
I'm just throwing this out there until I get some more time to think about it: Could it be that first mugging in 2005 bothered Jesse? Maybe made him feel weak and insecure . . . something like that. And to get over it, he told himself: I'm going out in the Chicago streets--I'm not going to let criminals keep me in fear. You know, kind of like jumping back on a horse after getting thrown. And maybe he took it a little too far . . .
As for all those drownings in Chicago, it should be noted: All those men were found. Jesse hasn't been. It lends more to the idea of he didn't end up in the water.
fasteddy8170
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Does anybody know why the public has never seen the video of Jesse in the lobby of the hotel? Yes, I know we have that pic of him standing next to the elevators that was erroneously portrayed as being taken right before he disappeared--it wasn't. That pic was taken in his own hotel while he was on his way to the U.N. emergency conference, as I remember.
So, the video? Anybody know why it hasn't been released? These days we can't seem to get enough videos of disappeared people. But in this case it's the opposite.
So, the video? Anybody know why it hasn't been released? These days we can't seem to get enough videos of disappeared people. But in this case it's the opposite.
fasteddy8170
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Hey, I'll keep this thread going if no one else will.
When you get into this whole world of disappearances and unsolved murders, I gotta tell ya: It's much easier to come up with suspects when women are the victim than if men are. Women are most likely harmed by a man they know. Men--most are never harmed by a woman they know. In fact, men have a much higher probability of getting into problems with people they don't know.
I think about this when I review Jesse's case. If he were a woman, what would we think? Probably that she got abducted and raped. Maybe a guy at the U.N. conference followed the female Jesse outside and attacked her. Maybe she hitched a ride with someone due to the cold weather and the guy took her somewhere and murdered her. All very plausible suspicions that can be fleshed out over and over.
But being that Jesse is a guy, none of those are possibilities. I mean, would a taxi driver really try to pick Jesse up and try to rape him? (You know what I mean--it's not meant to be funny or outrageous)
The truth is this: When men disappear, the automatic suspicion is suicide. Why? Because men are, well, men. We don't expect them to be attacked and then just disappear. It also doesn't help that men commit suicide much more often compared to women.
This is why I think Jesse's case is still cold and there aren't a lot of theories out there. Compare this to all the women who've disappeared and have never been found--the theories usually run the gamut from suicide to pulled into the sex trade. With Jesse's and other men's cases, the theories are few and the evidence is even less. In fact, when it comes to men, if they're gonna disappear the best thing they can do is disappear with a woman--it keeps the story on the front burner for a long time, much longer than if the guy disappears by himself.
When you get into this whole world of disappearances and unsolved murders, I gotta tell ya: It's much easier to come up with suspects when women are the victim than if men are. Women are most likely harmed by a man they know. Men--most are never harmed by a woman they know. In fact, men have a much higher probability of getting into problems with people they don't know.
I think about this when I review Jesse's case. If he were a woman, what would we think? Probably that she got abducted and raped. Maybe a guy at the U.N. conference followed the female Jesse outside and attacked her. Maybe she hitched a ride with someone due to the cold weather and the guy took her somewhere and murdered her. All very plausible suspicions that can be fleshed out over and over.
But being that Jesse is a guy, none of those are possibilities. I mean, would a taxi driver really try to pick Jesse up and try to rape him? (You know what I mean--it's not meant to be funny or outrageous)
The truth is this: When men disappear, the automatic suspicion is suicide. Why? Because men are, well, men. We don't expect them to be attacked and then just disappear. It also doesn't help that men commit suicide much more often compared to women.
This is why I think Jesse's case is still cold and there aren't a lot of theories out there. Compare this to all the women who've disappeared and have never been found--the theories usually run the gamut from suicide to pulled into the sex trade. With Jesse's and other men's cases, the theories are few and the evidence is even less. In fact, when it comes to men, if they're gonna disappear the best thing they can do is disappear with a woman--it keeps the story on the front burner for a long time, much longer than if the guy disappears by himself.
snowleopard
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Hi fast, I don't have a lot of insight on this case as the facts are pretty sparse, but I've enjoyed your posts here and other threads. The 'missing young man' cases are pretty interesting because of what you state...not always an obvious motivation or threat to have caused the disappearance. The smiley face killer idea, I think, got some traction because it offers some explanation in these types of cases (although most of the sfk cases seem to involve drunken young men falling into bodies of water). My first thought is that there is something we don't know about Jesse that plays into his disappearance (rave, depression etc). I also somehow associate this case with that of Kyle Fleischmann in NC. In his case, he seems to have just disappeared from the streets of Charlotte, NC, with the common theory that he walked into the wrong part of town late at night (no water nearby), but what group of street thugs would bother hiding the body (area searched more than once....)? If Jesse ran into the wrong people, it seems his body would likely have been found.
So the last image of Jesse was walking towards the main doors of the hotel lobby, and poof, no more cctv of Jesse. Indeed, how can this be possible?
Again, why specifically Jesse?
Did staff or stalker confront him at that point, walk by with something large that would obscure Jesse from cameras for a second or two, or other sleight of hand ( like in the movies)imo.
http://www.findjesseross.com/
bbm.
"There was an "emergency" meeting of the mock U.N. at 2 a.m. Nov. 21, the final day of the conference that drew more than 1,000 university students from across the country. Before the mock emergency, there was a dance, and parties throughout the host Four Points Sheraton Hotel in Chicago's downtown loop.
At about 2:30 a.m., about 12 hours after his last cell phone call to his mother, Jesse Ross got up from his chair and walked out of the room for a 30-minute break. A surveillance camera in the hotel lobby caught the unmistakable image of the red-haired Jesse, clad in a white T-shirt, jeans, and a green warm-up jacket, walking toward the main doors.
It was the last trace ever of 19-year-old Jesse Ross.
The 10-minute walk back to Sheraton Chicago Hotel & Towers, where Jesse and the UMKC group was staying, was well-lit, heavily traveled and covered by outdoor security cameras. None of them recorded Jesse.
"Aliens took him away," said his mother, knowing full well how ridiculous that sounds. But it's no more ridiculous than any other reason offered for her son's disappearance".
Again, why specifically Jesse?
Did staff or stalker confront him at that point, walk by with something large that would obscure Jesse from cameras for a second or two, or other sleight of hand ( like in the movies)imo.
http://www.findjesseross.com/
bbm.
"There was an "emergency" meeting of the mock U.N. at 2 a.m. Nov. 21, the final day of the conference that drew more than 1,000 university students from across the country. Before the mock emergency, there was a dance, and parties throughout the host Four Points Sheraton Hotel in Chicago's downtown loop.
At about 2:30 a.m., about 12 hours after his last cell phone call to his mother, Jesse Ross got up from his chair and walked out of the room for a 30-minute break. A surveillance camera in the hotel lobby caught the unmistakable image of the red-haired Jesse, clad in a white T-shirt, jeans, and a green warm-up jacket, walking toward the main doors.
It was the last trace ever of 19-year-old Jesse Ross.
The 10-minute walk back to Sheraton Chicago Hotel & Towers, where Jesse and the UMKC group was staying, was well-lit, heavily traveled and covered by outdoor security cameras. None of them recorded Jesse.
"Aliens took him away," said his mother, knowing full well how ridiculous that sounds. But it's no more ridiculous than any other reason offered for her son's disappearance".
fasteddy8170
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snowleopard, thank you. I will admit for about a half second I got caught up in the Smiley Face Killer thing about 5 years ago. Then I quickly dismissed it. It wreaks of conspiracy and paranoia. If these SFK are so smooth and clandestine, why aren't they robbing banks and taking over Third World countries? You know what I mean? Picking on drunk college men seems pretty amateurish while at the same time seeming to have ninja-like stealth skills.
As far as not knowing something about Jesse, hey we all have skeletons in the closet. And none of us know what goes on behind other people's closed doors. As dotr, who follows this thread, knows, I asked a very simple question weeks ago on here that no one seems to know: Would Jesse have gone outside in 27 degree weather wearing the clothes he was? Frankly, he wasn't dressed for that weather. Was he more resistant to the cold than the average person? Did he like to challenge himself--like fans who go to below freezing football games only wearing t-shirts? Somebody who knew him well would know that. To me, that's a HUGE key in this case. The other question I've had is: How did he get from his hotel to the party hotel in the first place? I'm sure the police know the answer to this question. But I think the first question is even more important.
As for that first question, I'm inclined to believe he might've dared to walk the whole way back dressed like that. Maybe a 30 year old wouldn't. But a 19 year old would at least think about it--hey, he's a kid. But if someone who knew him well would tell me there's no way he would walk back to his hotel like that, then we have to believe he looked for transportation. And that's a start. Because we got nothing right now.
As for Kyle Fleischmann, I'm somewhat familiar with that case. That's the one where it appears like Kyle never left the bar, right? But somehow he disappeared. Don't know what to make of that one. What sticks in my mind about it is I once was with a girl in Las Vegas and she was so drunk she tried to leave the restaurant through the kitchen--true story. And she would've had I not stopped her. So, in my world, it's possible Kyle was so drunk he left through the back entrance of the place. After that, no idea.
dotr, your point is a good one about the video in the hotel lobby. The public has never seen it--that's odd to me. Not unheard of, but odd. As I stated recently, I forgot about Jesse's first trip to Chicago were he was mugged and his camera taken. My spidey sense tells me that and his disappearance are connected in some way. To be honest, there's a part of me wondering if that first mugging really took place. Granted, I know filing a police report doesn't seem worth it if all is stolen is a camera. But the link above doesn't say anything about Jesse having any injuries from the mugging. And I guess the thief didn't take Jesse's wallet. Maybe it's nothing; maybe it's something. In addition, I can see a 30 year old not filing a police report. But neither Jesse nor his mother filed a report. It's been a long time since I was 18 but there's no way my mother wouldn't have made me file a report . . . Just sayin'. Once again, could be nothing.
I also wonder about something else I read in the old news reports. The roommate says he got back to the room, saw the pile of stuff on Jesse's bed and took for granted Jesse was under there somewhere. I'm gonna ask a question: Is it possible Jesse was under that pile and then left the room after the roommate went to sleep? Could it be that what everybody thought Jesse was doing--going back to his room--is exactly what he did? And then disappeared later? Hey, it's the roommate who says he thought Jesse was in bed--why not take him at his word? Just because the roommate got up the next day and Jesse wasn't there, doesn't mean Jesse wasn't there originally, right?
Hmmmmmmmmm.
As far as not knowing something about Jesse, hey we all have skeletons in the closet. And none of us know what goes on behind other people's closed doors. As dotr, who follows this thread, knows, I asked a very simple question weeks ago on here that no one seems to know: Would Jesse have gone outside in 27 degree weather wearing the clothes he was? Frankly, he wasn't dressed for that weather. Was he more resistant to the cold than the average person? Did he like to challenge himself--like fans who go to below freezing football games only wearing t-shirts? Somebody who knew him well would know that. To me, that's a HUGE key in this case. The other question I've had is: How did he get from his hotel to the party hotel in the first place? I'm sure the police know the answer to this question. But I think the first question is even more important.
As for that first question, I'm inclined to believe he might've dared to walk the whole way back dressed like that. Maybe a 30 year old wouldn't. But a 19 year old would at least think about it--hey, he's a kid. But if someone who knew him well would tell me there's no way he would walk back to his hotel like that, then we have to believe he looked for transportation. And that's a start. Because we got nothing right now.
As for Kyle Fleischmann, I'm somewhat familiar with that case. That's the one where it appears like Kyle never left the bar, right? But somehow he disappeared. Don't know what to make of that one. What sticks in my mind about it is I once was with a girl in Las Vegas and she was so drunk she tried to leave the restaurant through the kitchen--true story. And she would've had I not stopped her. So, in my world, it's possible Kyle was so drunk he left through the back entrance of the place. After that, no idea.
dotr, your point is a good one about the video in the hotel lobby. The public has never seen it--that's odd to me. Not unheard of, but odd. As I stated recently, I forgot about Jesse's first trip to Chicago were he was mugged and his camera taken. My spidey sense tells me that and his disappearance are connected in some way. To be honest, there's a part of me wondering if that first mugging really took place. Granted, I know filing a police report doesn't seem worth it if all is stolen is a camera. But the link above doesn't say anything about Jesse having any injuries from the mugging. And I guess the thief didn't take Jesse's wallet. Maybe it's nothing; maybe it's something. In addition, I can see a 30 year old not filing a police report. But neither Jesse nor his mother filed a report. It's been a long time since I was 18 but there's no way my mother wouldn't have made me file a report . . . Just sayin'. Once again, could be nothing.
I also wonder about something else I read in the old news reports. The roommate says he got back to the room, saw the pile of stuff on Jesse's bed and took for granted Jesse was under there somewhere. I'm gonna ask a question: Is it possible Jesse was under that pile and then left the room after the roommate went to sleep? Could it be that what everybody thought Jesse was doing--going back to his room--is exactly what he did? And then disappeared later? Hey, it's the roommate who says he thought Jesse was in bed--why not take him at his word? Just because the roommate got up the next day and Jesse wasn't there, doesn't mean Jesse wasn't there originally, right?
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Thinking of a case where a woman went missing from a hotel , yet cctv did not show her leave the hotel at all.
Long story short, a hotel guest had calmly wheeled the victim out of the hotel in his suitcase... fwiw
As for Jesse going out into the cold without a jacket, I think it is possible of course, especially if he was a smoker, but unlikely - if he had a jacket with him at the conference, he would not imo, want to take a chance of leaving it at the table and it possibly getting ripped off.
Wonder if he left his jacket somewhere and went ????? to retrieve it?
Long story short, a hotel guest had calmly wheeled the victim out of the hotel in his suitcase... fwiw
As for Jesse going out into the cold without a jacket, I think it is possible of course, especially if he was a smoker, but unlikely - if he had a jacket with him at the conference, he would not imo, want to take a chance of leaving it at the table and it possibly getting ripped off.
Wonder if he left his jacket somewhere and went ????? to retrieve it?
snowleopard
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Fast, good point about sfk using super agent skills to off drunk dudes ...funny if it wasn't so tragic too. As to Jesse not wearing appropriate clothes, I don't know the distance between hotels, but I'll occasionally take out the trash when it's in the 20's with shorts and t shirt on (I run hot....), but its 150 ft round trip tops, so I could see him jogging it to make a quick round trip of some kind (or to hop a cab?).
I think you have the Kyle Fleischmann case mixed with Brian Schaffer who went out to a bar near the Ohio State campus and was seen entering, but not leaving. I think possibly something happened in the bar and he was disposed of. If something happened on the street, again, why hide the body? He'd likely be found in a busy area after mugging/ murder scenario...adds to the mystery. Kyle went out with friends after a comedy show in Charlotte NC, ended up leaving credit card etc at bar, seen on video walking away from bar, made several calls to friends and father without leaving messages late at night, never seen afterward, same deal with body. I tend to think someone gave Kyle a ride a something bad happened, but just a guess.
Good points about the video...if there is no hold-back evidence on it, why not show it, might jog someone's memory who didn't realized who they saw that night....I think something interesting is on the video.....not sure what though.
Fast, how do you think the prior and last incidents are related for Jesse?
Irrelevant drunk story, my buddies roommate came home drunk one evening, went to my buddies room by mistake, opened his desk drawer, used it as a urinal and went back to his own room and passed out...alcohol makes people do strange things sometimes
.
I think you have the Kyle Fleischmann case mixed with Brian Schaffer who went out to a bar near the Ohio State campus and was seen entering, but not leaving. I think possibly something happened in the bar and he was disposed of. If something happened on the street, again, why hide the body? He'd likely be found in a busy area after mugging/ murder scenario...adds to the mystery. Kyle went out with friends after a comedy show in Charlotte NC, ended up leaving credit card etc at bar, seen on video walking away from bar, made several calls to friends and father without leaving messages late at night, never seen afterward, same deal with body. I tend to think someone gave Kyle a ride a something bad happened, but just a guess.
Good points about the video...if there is no hold-back evidence on it, why not show it, might jog someone's memory who didn't realized who they saw that night....I think something interesting is on the video.....not sure what though.
Fast, how do you think the prior and last incidents are related for Jesse?
Irrelevant drunk story, my buddies roommate came home drunk one evening, went to my buddies room by mistake, opened his desk drawer, used it as a urinal and went back to his own room and passed out...alcohol makes people do strange things sometimes
.Sorry to quote my own post, but by amazing coincidence the very case I was referring to happened to be on tv last night.
It was interesting how cctv and a determined P.I. and those in his corner, solved the mystery of the woman who vanished from a hotel.
Posting here in case any tips, clues can be gleaned in order to figure out what on earth could have happened to Jesse..
Maybe Ken B. can help with this case?
Video.. Fwiw
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/finding-one-man-in-hotel-full-of-suspects-13248249
"Finding 1 Man in Hotel Full of Suspects "
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/12/vanishing-blonde-201012
bbm
"After a woman living in a hotel in Florida was raped, viciously beaten, and left for dead near the Everglades in 2005, the police investigation quickly went cold. But when the victim sued the Airport Regency, the hotel’s private detective, Ken Brennan, became obsessed with the case: how had the 21-year-old blonde disappeared from her room, unseen by security cameras? The author follows Brennan’s trail as the P.I. worked a chilling hunch that would lead him to other states, other crimes, and a man nobody else suspected."
fasteddy8170
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snowleopard, you're right: I got them mixed up. That's my fault. I should've checked and not just relied on my memory.
You mention about how people do strange things when drunk. See, that's what tough for me because I'm not a drinker--never have been . . . ever. And I've never done drugs either. The closest I've ever come to being mentally incapacitated is being on anesthesia while getting some wisdom teeth pulled. So, it's tough for me to "know" what's going on in a drunk's head. I don't have any life experiences to tap into to relate to victims who we believe were drunk at the time of their disappearance.
I should say, though, that my experience tells me--in regards to Fleischmann--that people are hesitant to give a ride to someone who's drunk. Even Jeffrey Dahmer, who preyed upon young men, like to get the victims drunk and drugged himself--he didn't choose to find them that way. Not saying it doesn't happen--it does. But that's never my first choice in cases like Kyle's. Drunks are belligerent, hard to predict, quick to anger, etc.--not very good victims. For example, drunks can't be told what to do. Whereas, sober people scare much more easily, they're docile, they often suffer from "paralysis by analysis" which of course drunks never do. So, to think a killer picked Kyle up isn't at the top of my list. Killers want pliable victims--not hassles. So, Kyle picked up by someone? Possible. But not probable in my book.
Jesse's prior attack in Chicago the year before and its relation to his disappearance? I don't know. Once again, it's just a kind of spidey sense thing. Here a kid from out-of-town who goes to Chicago for the first time and gets mugged. Goes there for a second time a year later and disappears. And in neither case was he in an area that's considered violent by Chicago standards. Those are the facts. And those kinds of facts get my attention.
Why? Because--despite the city's reputation--the odds of going to Chicago and getting attacked in a tourist area of town is very low. Getting attacked/disappeared/whatever there a second time, the odds are even lower. The odds of it happening the only two times Jesse was ever there are even smaller. You add in he's not a minority. He's not a woman. And it was 2:30am and the odds descend lower and lower and lower.
And I really, really don't like counting on odds that low. For my amateur methodology, when I run into something like the above paragraph--where the facts keep lowering and lowering the odds--my instinct is to start rejecting alleged "facts" of the case. Why? Facts should make odds go up, not down. What I mean by that is: Facts should make it more likely that a person was attacked, not less.
In my opinion, the facts of Jesse's life make it very, very unlikely over the course of his lifetime that he would ever be attacked in Chicago--he's a white guy, he was only there twice, he was in a touristy/non-violent area, he wasn't a violent person, he was out at a time in an area where not much goes on. But, instead of him never being attacked, he was attacked once and disappeared the next.
That's what I mean.
To put it in perspective--and this is just going by crime statistics, imagine a woman of a minority who's lived in Chicago her whole life. She lives in a rough section of town. She's also 19. The odds of her being raped once and then disappearing the second time are much higher than Jesse's. But 99.9% of Chicago women don't disappear. But somehow Jesse's gone.
That's how odd Jesse's disappearance is. So, it makes sense to re-assess what we regard as "facts". This is the exact reason I raised the point that maybe Jesse was in bed when his roommate returned. Hey, it's the roommate who said it--why not believe him? I'm all for following the popular line of thinking if the facts suggest to do so. But after years with not one lead, maybe it's time to looking at what we take for granted regarding Jesse's case.
dotr, you bring up a very good point about that hotel case. All I can say regarding your point is it would be tougher to stuff Jesse in a suitcase than it would've that girl. However, there are some huge suitcases out there. In the end, you're right: It's possible to trick security cameras if someone plans it out enough.
But, dotr, we also have to remember something: Although we have not seen the hotel video, the police have concentrated on the areas outside the hotel and not inside since Jesse's disappearance. I think from that we can infer it shows Jesse leaving the hotel and not coming back in. They devoted a lot of time and effort in those weeks after Jesse's disappearance to search the water in Chicago. They wouldn't have done that if it showed Jesse going to the elevator, you know what I mean? Still, I really like to see that video.
You mention about how people do strange things when drunk. See, that's what tough for me because I'm not a drinker--never have been . . . ever. And I've never done drugs either. The closest I've ever come to being mentally incapacitated is being on anesthesia while getting some wisdom teeth pulled. So, it's tough for me to "know" what's going on in a drunk's head. I don't have any life experiences to tap into to relate to victims who we believe were drunk at the time of their disappearance.
I should say, though, that my experience tells me--in regards to Fleischmann--that people are hesitant to give a ride to someone who's drunk. Even Jeffrey Dahmer, who preyed upon young men, like to get the victims drunk and drugged himself--he didn't choose to find them that way. Not saying it doesn't happen--it does. But that's never my first choice in cases like Kyle's. Drunks are belligerent, hard to predict, quick to anger, etc.--not very good victims. For example, drunks can't be told what to do. Whereas, sober people scare much more easily, they're docile, they often suffer from "paralysis by analysis" which of course drunks never do. So, to think a killer picked Kyle up isn't at the top of my list. Killers want pliable victims--not hassles. So, Kyle picked up by someone? Possible. But not probable in my book.
Jesse's prior attack in Chicago the year before and its relation to his disappearance? I don't know. Once again, it's just a kind of spidey sense thing. Here a kid from out-of-town who goes to Chicago for the first time and gets mugged. Goes there for a second time a year later and disappears. And in neither case was he in an area that's considered violent by Chicago standards. Those are the facts. And those kinds of facts get my attention.
Why? Because--despite the city's reputation--the odds of going to Chicago and getting attacked in a tourist area of town is very low. Getting attacked/disappeared/whatever there a second time, the odds are even lower. The odds of it happening the only two times Jesse was ever there are even smaller. You add in he's not a minority. He's not a woman. And it was 2:30am and the odds descend lower and lower and lower.
And I really, really don't like counting on odds that low. For my amateur methodology, when I run into something like the above paragraph--where the facts keep lowering and lowering the odds--my instinct is to start rejecting alleged "facts" of the case. Why? Facts should make odds go up, not down. What I mean by that is: Facts should make it more likely that a person was attacked, not less.
In my opinion, the facts of Jesse's life make it very, very unlikely over the course of his lifetime that he would ever be attacked in Chicago--he's a white guy, he was only there twice, he was in a touristy/non-violent area, he wasn't a violent person, he was out at a time in an area where not much goes on. But, instead of him never being attacked, he was attacked once and disappeared the next.
That's what I mean.
To put it in perspective--and this is just going by crime statistics, imagine a woman of a minority who's lived in Chicago her whole life. She lives in a rough section of town. She's also 19. The odds of her being raped once and then disappearing the second time are much higher than Jesse's. But 99.9% of Chicago women don't disappear. But somehow Jesse's gone.
That's how odd Jesse's disappearance is. So, it makes sense to re-assess what we regard as "facts". This is the exact reason I raised the point that maybe Jesse was in bed when his roommate returned. Hey, it's the roommate who said it--why not believe him? I'm all for following the popular line of thinking if the facts suggest to do so. But after years with not one lead, maybe it's time to looking at what we take for granted regarding Jesse's case.
dotr, you bring up a very good point about that hotel case. All I can say regarding your point is it would be tougher to stuff Jesse in a suitcase than it would've that girl. However, there are some huge suitcases out there. In the end, you're right: It's possible to trick security cameras if someone plans it out enough.
But, dotr, we also have to remember something: Although we have not seen the hotel video, the police have concentrated on the areas outside the hotel and not inside since Jesse's disappearance. I think from that we can infer it shows Jesse leaving the hotel and not coming back in. They devoted a lot of time and effort in those weeks after Jesse's disappearance to search the water in Chicago. They wouldn't have done that if it showed Jesse going to the elevator, you know what I mean? Still, I really like to see that video.