GUILTY IL - Laquan McDonald, 17, fatally shot, Chicago PD charged, 20 Oct 2014 -J. VanDyke GUILTY*

[RainCheck]

Shot 16 times walking away, holding a folded, small pocket knife. There is no excuse, none.

 

[mrsward]

This is appalling ...

I'm mortified ...

 

[Montjoy]

Where is the outrage of the overall violence going on chicago? The murder ratte there is ridiculous. Why aren'tt there protests over that? There are childred beig killed in drive bys but no one cares until a white cop kills a black teen.

rsbm

I was wondering when we'd see a "where's the outrage?" post. No doubt, there is outrage -- but I don't know that one can use Websleuths threads as an indication of it. There are so many homicides committed every single day, in the US, and around the world, that do not receive threads. Add to that other violent crimes -- domestic assaults, rapes, etc. <modsnip>

 

[Montjoy]

But police in our country are given great power, and with that, comes great responsibility . IMO, they must be held to a higher standard, or their authority will not be respected by society as a whole. That's a fundamental aspect of the social contract. And really, it's already starting to break down, and we are seeing the ramifications.

This year, there could be 1000 civilians killed by police officers. Many of them are unarmed, or effectively unarmed, or under-armed. Many of them are mentally ill. Many are youths, many are innocent.

And it's not just homicide here -- there are all sorts of problems with LEOs who abuse their authority with sexual assaults, physical assaults, financial crimes, and so forth. I agree that they should be held to a higher standard, especially if they (or we) believe that they deserve the respect of the public that pays their salaries.

All of that being said, I would submit to the ownership and management of Websleuths that it is high time to have a sub-forum for crimes and incidents related to LEOs. The volume is certainly enough to justify it -- far more people are killed or assaulted or robbed by LEOs than are killed by serial killers each year. And we only hear about a fraction of them.

Bad LEOs seem to be more and more common -- I think that there is a problem with how many officers and agencies understand their mandate and their powers. And bad LEOs, and bad departments, make the job a lot harder for the good ones. So I think that turning a blind eye to this growing problem does not do the good LEOs any favors.

 

[Montjoy]

The thing is police are taking an oath to protect and serve, they are supposed to be the good guys. I certainly hold them to a higher standard than a common criminal. Cops shouldn't be murdering anyone, raping, robbing, selling drugs or looking at child *advertiser censored* yet at least once a week I see a story in the news of a police officer doing just that. I expect criminals to be criminals. I don't expect cops to be criminals. In my opinion when a police officer is caught engaging in criminal activity they should recieve a harsher punishment than civilians because they hurt the entire community and every single police officer who has to continue doing their job after the community's trust has been shattered. It doesn't matter if civilians are murdering 500 people to police officers 1. A police officer murdering even one person is unacceptable. I can't sit here and say oh well criminals murder and rape all the time and cops only do that once in a while so it shouldn't really be news.

I think that this post very eloquently makes my point regarding the need for a LEO forum.

 

[KateB]

This is linked off the article posted by Tricia in the opening post. Published in July and updated yesterday. Over a dozen victims of LE that have had the videos released to the public are profiled in the article.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/30/us/police-videos-race.html

The Videos That Are Putting Race and Policing Into Sharp Relief

By DAMIEN CAVE and ROCHELLE OLIVER UPDATED NOV. 24, 2015

Raw video has thoroughly shaken American policing. Grainy images of questionable police behavior, spread through social media, have led to nationwide protests, federal investigations and changes in policy and attitudes on race.

“A lot of white people are truly shocked by what these videos depict; I know very few African-Americans who are surprised,” said Paul D. Butler, a law professor at Georgetown University and a former prosecutor. “The videos are smoking-gun evidence,” he added, “both literally because they are very graphic, which generates outrage, and figuratively, because people believe their own eyes.”

These videos include graphic scenes of violence.

 

[sds71]

I wonder if t he footage the police deleted showed him NOT breaking car windows or slashing tires

http://gawker.com/burger-king-manag...vNEoqg.1&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/

 

[Sonya610]

If you shoot an intruder 16 times; You will face jail time. Jmo. You are allowed to defend yourself and property. But 16 times is atrocious. Jmo

Not necessarily. If the person claimed they were in fear for their life and they kept shooting until the gun was empty in the "heat of the moment" they could very well not be charged.

But if it can be proven that the shooting stopped because the subject was incapacitated and then they were shot a few more times that would probably lead to charges. Things get tricky if one stops and then starts shooting again.

In this case it looks to me like the guy was moving AWAY from the police when he was shot the first time so the whole stopping/restarting thing is just icing on the cake.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Can't help but wonder if they agreed to silence as part of the $5 million dollar settlement - thankfully a journalist persued the issue!

JMO ~

Or out of fear.

 

[Sonya610]

Or out of fear.

After a 5 million dollar settlement? With that kind of money they would have NO reason to fear the Chicago PD, they could move wherever they like and say whatever they like. I would assume their statements were part of the settlement agreement.

 

[AnaTeresa]

After a 5 million dollar settlement? With that kind of money they would have NO reason to fear the Chicago PD, they could move wherever they like and say whatever they like. I would assume their statements were part of the settlement agreement.

It's highly likely that any sort of payout had a non-disclosure agreement tied to it. However, I don't think that's the only reason someone would keep quiet in this situation. No amount of money in the world would help you feel safe after watching that video, much less if it was a video of their son. Some people react to these types of situations by being vocal for justice. Others? It's perfectly normal to be afraid.

 

[fizzypop]

Once a gain I am ot condoning this officer's acts, but I have to ask (and I live in Texas) would it be ok if Laquan was killed by a civilian who was threatened by his knife. Was tthe folded knife in his pocket orr displayed? If anyonne came at my on my property, they're gonna be shot. We have had several intruders shot by homeowners laely. I realize Laquan was shott in the back and tthat is not ok but at some time we have to realize that cops have very little time to size up a situation and reactt. I have to say again I am not condonig this officers actions butt in the every day (because it is every dday) situation a cop puts his life on the line, I just believe if people walked a day in their shoes it wouldnt be as big of a riot as it is lately. These cops are protectting us and our families. I have yet tto see a cop just pick some random off the sreet and shoot them Usually itt is someone who has already committed a crime or ssuspected of committing a crime. MOO

Shot 16 times walking away, holding a folded, small pocket knife. There is no excuse, none.

In the longer video I watched on YouTube you could clearly see the knife he was carrying in his had, blade out, and it looks bigger than 3 inches to me. But maybe I'm seeing things. This video is the whole dashcam, over 6 minutes. Go to about 5 minutes to see just before Jaquan comes into the picture.

[video=youtube;Ix2N6_jLAgA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA[/video]

The knife is definitely out, I will say that. I am guessing the 3 inch blade folded in his pocket is another embellishment by those trying to make this even worse than it is, like the reports that he was handcuffed when shot, which were also not true.

 

[magnolia]

In the longer video I watched on YouTube you could clearly see the knife he was carrying in his had, blade out, and it looks bigger than 3 inches to me. But maybe I'm seeing things. This video is the whole dashcam, over 6 minutes. Go to about 5 minutes to see just before Jaquan comes into the picture.

[video=youtube;Ix2N6_jLAgA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA[/video]

The knife is definitely out, I will say that. I am guessing the 3 inch blade folded in his pocket is another embellishment by those trying to make this even worse than it is, like the reports that he was handcuffed when shot, which were also not true.

It was reported that the knife blade was four inches. Now the blade is three inches.

Chicago (CNN)Laquan McDonald was walking down a Chicago street the night of October 20, 2014, carrying a four-inch knife and behaving erratically, authorities say.

[video]http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/us/laquan-mcdonald-chicago-dashcam-video/index.html[/video]

 

[Falcon500]

So this murder occurred over a year ago and the officer is just NOW facing criminal charges as a result of the video being released to the public ONLY AFTER a journalist filed/won a lawsuit - CPD really wanted to sweep this one under the rug didn't they? Thanks to the perserverance of the journalist, truth comes to light.

Wrong. The police department finished their investigation within days and handed over their findings to the prosecutors office. It had nothing to do with the release of the video to the public. The prosecutor knew what the video showed. If anyone deserves to be criticized it should be the prosecutor.

 

[karen in New York]

Listening to the prosecutor - once someone is on the ground and not capable of being a threat - those shots need to be required to protect the health of the officers or others. So, how can the last several shots be justified? Thoughts on how you can justify those actions? I'm sure there is more to this - but feels like an execution to me - to make sure he was dead ....

 

[sds71]

Sad life from beginning to end

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/...donald-teenage-chicago-police-shooting-victim

 

[Woodland]

The freelance journalist whose lawsuit forced the Chicago Police Department to release video of a fatal police shooting of a black teenager says he was barred from attending a news conference with the mayor and police superintendent on Tuesday.

Dozens of journalists were gathered inside Chicago&#8217;s Police Headquarters on Tuesday, listening to Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Police Superintendent Garry F. McCarthy discuss the shooting of the teenager, Laquan McDonald, 17. Absent was Brandon Smith, the freelance journalist whose lawsuit over the summer had pressed for the release of the police dashboard camera video.

&#8220;The worst part about being barred from the press conference that my lawsuit precipitated is that I can&#8217;t ask Rahm questions about it,&#8221; he wrote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/u...atedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

Barring Brandon Smith from the news conference was a childish and retaliatory act imo. The mayor and police superintendent have now communicated their future expectations to subordinates and the public.

They are not imo the right people, in the right job at the right time - they are part of the problem by putting personal and childish views ahead of the corrective measures required at this time - and will continue to do so imo. Seems to me that their personal views come first over that of the public they are paid by.

Poor leadership and accounts for the lack of charges before the order to release the video imo.

 

[PeregrineFaulkner]

In the longer video I watched on YouTube you could clearly see the knife he was carrying in his had, blade out, and it looks bigger than 3 inches to me. But maybe I'm seeing things. This video is the whole dashcam, over 6 minutes. Go to about 5 minutes to see just before Jaquan comes into the picture.

[video=youtube;Ix2N6_jLAgA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA[/video]

The knife is definitely out, I will say that. I am guessing the 3 inch blade folded in his pocket is another embellishment by those trying to make this even worse than it is, like the reports that he was handcuffed when shot, which were also not true.

Open-carry advocates walk down the street with assault rifles over their shoulders, but police don't shoot them 16 times in the back.

 

[Trident]

Sad life from beginning to end

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/...donald-teenage-chicago-police-shooting-victim

I read that last night and, yes, it was a sad life, a horrible life, starting with abuse by his mother's boyfriend. Can we start the blame where it should be?

Then sexually abused in foster care, twice. Can we lay the blame on children's service, or whatever they call themselves there? It seems there was no action taken.

Then on to his uncle and girl friend, who wouldn't let the sister in. An uncle. Where was the FATHER? Does anyone know?

Then Grandma took him in and she died. Yes, it was a horrible life. BUT, whose fault was that? I'd say the fault lies with his family, except grandma, of course. Maybe we should lay the blame for the horrible life squarely where it belongs, instead of making excuses.

Then, when he got killed, he was allegedly breaking into cars and slashing tires. Didn't see a video of that, maybe there isn't one, just the call to police? This kid had a knife, and PCB in his system. He was not obeying LE when they told him to drop it, or get on the ground. Are LE just supposed to let him walk away to do whatever? I hope not.

Are 16 shots worse than 1? I don't know, but would it have been any different if only 1 had been fired and he died? I think not.

Yes, he led a horrible life, thanks to the people who are now benefiting richly from it. <modsnip> I'm sick of ALL of it.

My OPINION only

 

[RainCheck]

I read that last night and, yes, it was a sad life, a horrible life, starting with abuse by his mother's boyfriend. Can we start the blame where it should be?

Then sexually abused in foster care, twice. Can we lay the blame on children's service, or whatever they call themselves there? It seems there was no action taken.

Then on to his uncle and girl friend, who wouldn't let the sister in. An uncle. Where was the FATHER? Does anyone know?

Then Grandma took him in and she died. Yes, it was a horrible life. BUT, whose fault was that? I'd say the fault lies with his family, except grandma, of course. Maybe we should lay the blame for the horrible life squarely where it belongs, instead of making excuses.

Then, when he got killed, he was allegedly breaking into cars and slashing tires. Didn't see a video of that, maybe there isn't one, just the call to police? This kid had a knife, and PCB in his system. He was not obeying LE when they told him to drop it, or get on the ground. Are LE just supposed to let him walk away to do whatever? I hope not.

Are 16 shots worse than 1? I don't know, but would it have been any different if only 1 had been fired and he died? I think not.

Yes, he led a horrible life, thanks to the people who are now benefiting richly from it.<modsnip> I'm sick of ALL of it.

My OPINION only

The welfare system and the private prison system make a lot of very powerful people wealthy. If it didn't the inner cities of America would have been cleaned up long ago. If people weren't getting rich off government contracts a solution would have been implemented, but the way it works now is beneficial to everybody who could make a difference. The cycle of abuse, drugs and violence is very hard to break. In this country money talks and it says things are just fine the way they are.