IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[vestigare]

Also, sources told FOX 32 that Gliniewicz was also shot in the vest, the bullet hitting his cell phone which was clipped on the vest, and that the shell casing was found a considerable distance away from where his body and the second shell casing was discovered.

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/18717002-story

 

[Solitaryone]

He was shot above the vest, at a downward angle, according to the coroner.

As far as I know the Coroner has not given out any info except that Lt.Gliniewicz died from a devastating shot to the torso.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0910-20150909-story.html



"The gunshot that killed Fox Lake Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was to his torso, Lake County Coroner Thomas Rudd said Thursday.

Rudd had said Wednesday that the 52-year-old officer died of a single devastating gunshot wound but he did not say where the officer was shot. He offered the new information Thursday morning, he said, to dispel rumors. Reports from local media that Gliniewicz suffered a wound to the back of his neck are inaccurate, Rudd said.

Rudd, who has declined to discuss other autopsy findings, did not say whether the officer suffered any other wounds."

<Snip>

"The coroner said Thursday morning that he hadn't received the information from the police investigation that he needed to finish the autopsy report.

"... I cannot give a manner of death because I don't know what happened in terms of where did this bullet come from," he had said previously. "Right now, all unnatural deaths are up for suggestion. That means homicide, suicide, accident, undetermined."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0911-20150910-story.html

"Lake County Coroner Thomas Rudd has released a few details about the officer's wounds and has been widely quoted in the media. He said Thursday that the gunshot that killed Gliniewicz was to his torso, though he has declined to reveal other details, including whether the officer suffered other wounds. Rudd has said he released some information to clear up erroneous rumors and media reports.

The coroner also has said that, until he gets more information from investigators, he can't rule on whether Gliniewicz's death came by homicide, suicide, accident or a manner that can't be determined."

 

[cady]

Good point.

Yeah, I think Armhole would be way easier but without understanding exactly what the coroner meant by downward trajectory and such I can't say exactly.

Is Gliniwicz right or left handed? Not that a right handed person couldn't do a left handed shot in the armhole and hit his heart in downward position. Not that if you got the angle high enough on the right side you could get the heart.

Assuming he even aimed for the heart and didn't just blow a hold in the chest and get the lungs enough.

I'm NOT saying that it isn't true, but I have yet to see a DIRECT QUOTE from Rudd about that. I think that the Mayor said that. Much of what Rudd said, which was very little, was paraphrased. (I have noticed that he is quoted to a point, and the rest of a "statement" is not in quotes.) Perhaps Rudd told the Mayor this, off the record. I believe that they are on good terms ,but I doubt that the Mayor was at the autopsy. JUST MY OPINION

 

[Solitaryone]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. There is a lot of information that documents the commonality of police suicide.

http://www.theiacp.org/Preventing-law-Enforcement-officer-suicide

http://www.tearsofacop.com/police/articles/dugdale.html

http://www.policeone.com/health-fitness/articles/122042-Police-officer-suicide-prevention/

It's documented that police officers have a higher suicide rate than the rest of the population.

It's also documented that more police officers commit suicide than are killed on the line of duty.

So going by this, I would argue that it would be more probable and logical that Gliniewicz actually shot himself (twice) as opposed to the idea that 2 white men and a black man took his gun, shot him with it, left the gun behind, and all disappeared without a trace before backup arrived 2 minutes later. JMO. I know that's not a happy ending. But I just want to get to the truth.

I agree. It's even harder to believe there were two groups of three men with each group having two white men and one black man, one group of which were seen on surveillance video, ID'd and cleared, while the other group left no trace of themselves at all.

 

[m00c0w]

As far as I know the Coroner has not given out any info except that Lt.Gliniewicz died from a devastating shot to the torso.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0910-20150909-story.html



"The gunshot that killed Fox Lake Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was to his torso, Lake County Coroner Thomas Rudd said Thursday.

Rudd had said Wednesday that the 52-year-old officer died of a single devastating gunshot wound but he did not say where the officer was shot. He offered the new information Thursday morning, he said, to dispel rumors. Reports from local media that Gliniewicz suffered a wound to the back of his neck are inaccurate, Rudd said.

Rudd, who has declined to discuss other autopsy findings, did not say whether the officer suffered any other wounds."

<Snip>

"The coroner said Thursday morning that he hadn't received the information from the police investigation that he needed to finish the autopsy report.

"... I cannot give a manner of death because I don't know what happened in terms of where did this bullet come from," he had said previously. "Right now, all unnatural deaths are up for suggestion. That means homicide, suicide, accident, undetermined."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0911-20150910-story.html

"Lake County Coroner Thomas Rudd has released a few details about the officer's wounds and has been widely quoted in the media. He said Thursday that the gunshot that killed Gliniewicz was to his torso, though he has declined to reveal other details, including whether the officer suffered other wounds. Rudd has said he released some information to clear up erroneous rumors and media reports.

The coroner also has said that, until he gets more information from investigators, he can't rule on whether Gliniewicz's death came by homicide, suicide, accident or a manner that can't be determined."

Agggghhh.

I misread the freaking ABC7 story. Sorry. A couple of different outlets have been citing "an official" who says the shot was above the vest in a downward trajectory. These references have been usually in conjunction with the coroner's statements, so I guess I conflated it.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/ap-fatal-shot-entered-lt-gliniewiczs-chest-above-vest/978844/
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c0a9...orthern-illinois-officer-was-struck-2-bullets

I need to slow down. :moo:

 

[Solitaryone]

There were questions by some here regarding Lt.Gliniewicz's retirement plans.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0910-20150909-story.html


"Behan and Fox Lake Mayor Donny Schmit also offered some clarity about whether Gliniewicz had been planning to retire at the time he was killed. Both the former chief and the mayor said Gliniewicz had talked about retiring soon but had not submitted any formal paperwork to that effect. Schmit said the officer had discussed the prospect of retiring at the end of the year but had also considered moving that up to the end of September.

Behan said Gliniewicz had also been a recent candidate for the job of police chief in Antioch, the officer's hometown. Antioch officials were not available to confirm that Wednesday. The village announced the hiring of a new chief, Steve Huffman, in August."

 

[cady]

Also, since when is the Mayor a participant in the investigation? Lots of leaks, and they were not coming from Rudd.......JMO

 

[vestigare]

I'm NOT saying that it isn't true, but I have yet to see a DIRECT QUOTE from Rudd about that. I think that the Mayor said that. Much of what Rudd said, which was very little, was paraphrased. (I have noticed that he is quoted to a point, and the rest of a "statement" is not in quotes.) Perhaps Rudd told the Mayor this, off the record. I believe that they are on good terms ,but I doubt that the Mayor was at the autopsy. JUST MY OPINION

Not knowing what happened I would think the most devastating shot to the torso would be one that struck your Sp vena cava and aorta. You don't survive that. Taking those out would probably do a number to the heart and the lungs too. You could hit those via the straight into chest, from the back, from the side, from the arm pit and from the neck. That is why these vests come up so high.

 

[Solitaryone]

I think this was talked about some in last thread, but what does this mean exactly, and what all is involved? TIA.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0910-20150909-story.html


"Also Wednesday, the village released a statement saying that, at the time of Gliniewicz's death, the village had been in the process of conducting an "inventory review" of Police Department procedures and equipment that was prompted by former Chief Michael Behan's retirement Aug. 28. Gliniewicz had "participated in this process," the statement said.

Behan had announced his retirement shortly after he was placed on leave as part of an internal investigation into how police handled a December 2014 arrest. Behan said this week that he chose to leave because it was time and that no one forced him out.

Wednesday's statement from the village said the "clean slate" review is "standard and considered a best practice whenever there is a change in leadership at a law enforcement agency." After the officer's death, the village "immediately made available to the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force all the materials based on this review and other pertinent information in order to assist investigators."

When asked Tuesday whether police were exploring any possible connection between Gliniewicz's death and the internal investigation stemming from the December incident, Filenko said, "We haven't ruled out anything."

 

[vestigare]

Also, since when is the Mayor a participant in the investigation? Lots of leaks, and they were not coming from Rudd.......JMO

There were 3 (count em THREE) LEO in the autopsy according to Rudd. That alone sounds crazy to me. Why that many and I doubt they were all forensic pathologists. So there is probably a great deal of scuttlebutt around the PD and city clerks water cooler about this case.

I sometimes wonder if the rumors are on purpose.

 

[m00c0w]

I think this was talked about some in last thread, but what does this mean exactly, and what all is involved? TIA.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0910-20150909-story.html


"Also Wednesday, the village released a statement saying that, at the time of Gliniewicz's death, the village had been in the process of conducting an "inventory review" of Police Department procedures and equipment that was prompted by former Chief Michael Behan's retirement Aug. 28. Gliniewicz had "participated in this process," the statement said.

Behan had announced his retirement shortly after he was placed on leave as part of an internal investigation into how police handled a December 2014 arrest. Behan said this week that he chose to leave because it was time and that no one forced him out.

Wednesday's statement from the village said the "clean slate" review is "standard and considered a best practice whenever there is a change in leadership at a law enforcement agency." After the officer's death, the village "immediately made available to the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force all the materials based on this review and other pertinent information in order to assist investigators."

When asked Tuesday whether police were exploring any possible connection between Gliniewicz's death and the internal investigation stemming from the December incident, Filenko said, "We haven't ruled out anything."

In the military, we have a similar thing that happens. Whenever there is a change of command, there is a complete inventory taken of everything, so the new commander isn't responsible for equipment that is lost or missing. This is a little bit different, because the commander actually signs for all equipment in a unit and is personally responsible for it, unlike the police force, I'd assume. But I imagine the intent is the same. It makes the incoming chief aware of what deficiencies he's going to have to remedy, and what potential investigations may have to be launched if things turn up missing that shouldn't be. I have no clue about the policy review portion.

It is interesting, the timing of all of this, and the LT's death.

 

[vestigare]

I think this was talked about some in last thread, but what does this mean exactly, and what all is involved? TIA.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-police-shooting-met-0910-20150909-story.html


"Also Wednesday, the village released a statement saying that, at the time of Gliniewicz's death, the village had been in the process of conducting an "inventory review" of Police Department procedures and equipment that was prompted by former Chief Michael Behan's retirement Aug. 28. Gliniewicz had "participated in this process," the statement said.

Behan had announced his retirement shortly after he was placed on leave as part of an internal investigation into how police handled a December 2014 arrest. Behan said this week that he chose to leave because it was time and that no one forced him out.

Wednesday's statement from the village said the "clean slate" review is "standard and considered a best practice whenever there is a change in leadership at a law enforcement agency." After the officer's death, the village "immediately made available to the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force all the materials based on this review and other pertinent information in order to assist investigators."

When asked Tuesday whether police were exploring any possible connection between Gliniewicz's death and the internal investigation stemming from the December incident, Filenko said, "We haven't ruled out anything."

In my experience any time there is a changing of the guard at a govt dept they do an inventory review. Figure out where all the taxpayer money went and where the stuff is. Copy machines, vehicles, guns, copy paper, etc.. Not really a smoking gun unless something huge was happening and missing or there was a misappropriation of funds.

 

[cady]

There were 3 (count em THREE) LEO in the autopsy according to Rudd. That alone sounds crazy to me. Why that many and I doubt they were all forensic pathologists. So there is probably a great deal of scuttlebutt around the PD and city clerks water cooler about this case.

I sometimes wonder if the rumors are on purpose.

Were 2 of them the 2 officers who were initially at the scene? I think I read that, but not sure where. JMO

 

[vestigare]

Were 2 of them the 2 officers who were initially at the scene? I think I read that, but not sure where. JMO

I hadn't heard that but if there were that is so screwed up beyond belief. There is no way anyone in command or any DA should have allowed anyone from the crime scene to be at the autopsy unless they were forensic scienists who went to the crime scene first and then followed on to autopsy.

If they were the responding police I can't even begin to imagine why they would be watching the coroner nor why he would tolerate them being there.

I could understand if they were special crimes or FBI but not regular everyday cops.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Tracking dogs can scent over water. They aren't really smelling the ground but the air above the ground and can follow people in vehicles under certain circumstances. With 48 dogs there from various alphabet departments if there was something to track they would have tracked it swamp or no.

We don't know if everything they did track was ruled out but considering nothing was said I figure they found nothing of use.

Is it possible there were too many dogs involved with searching/tracking?
The scene sounds as if it would be chaotic to me.
On other case threads I learned a dog is only as good as its handler. Dogs are trained to do or track specific things or reasons (like bombs, drugs, an individual based on their specific scent, buried people dead or alive during disasters, specific remains anywhere, and, even cancer).

The acidity tracking factor, as explained in a prior post, is new information.
Is it possible all of the dogs are trained for and have that specific skill?
My point is, maybe the search wasn't controlled enough.

Before everyone trampled the ground, I hope LE looked closely at the ground first.

 

[cady]

I hadn't heard that but if there were that is so screwed up beyond belief. There is no way anyone in command or any DA should have allowed anyone from the crime scene to be at the autopsy unless they were forensic scienists who went to the crime scene first and then followed on to autopsy.

If they were the responding police I can't even begin to imagine why they would be watching the coroner nor why he would tolerate them being there.

I could understand if they were special crimes or FBI but not regular everyday cops.

I just searched. Can't find any names, but Rudd reportedly said that three of George Filenko's Task Force members were at the autopsy. So, they were most likely task force guys. Rudd apparently said that after it was said that he was not sharing any information with Filenko. JMO

 

[vestigare]

hmm... I wouldn't think the amount of dogs would affect the dogs in what they are sniffing except the ground disturbance dogs. Dogs are really good at distinguishing what they are trained to distinguish so it isn't like they are busy sniffing each other's butt or something or confused by the smell of coffee. However, that many dogs and handlers running around contaminating and disturbing the scene is a huge problem. They are disturbing ground, trampling on footprints, breaking vegetation, kicking evidence around, leaving DNA that has to be negated later, and even K9s will take a leak at a crime scene.

Sadly in the US rarely are crime scenes ever locked down in a sufficient manner and we get a lot of LEO running around making things worse.

 

[vestigare]

I just searched. Can't find any names, but Rudd reportedly said that three of George Filenko's Task Force members were at the autopsy. So, they were most likely task force guys. Rudd apparently said that after it was said that he was not sharing any information with Filenko. JMO

All I could find was it saying three officers. No ranks or titles.

 

[m00c0w]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length earlier, but has there been any word or development from this "significant" video they talked about being turned over to DHS?

https://gma.yahoo.com/video/significant-video-found-fox-lake-214048137.html

 

[Tillicum]

I hadn't heard that but if there were that is so screwed up beyond belief. There is no way anyone in command or any DA should have allowed anyone from the crime scene to be at the autopsy unless they were forensic scienists who went to the crime scene first and then followed on to autopsy.

If they were the responding police I can't even begin to imagine why they would be watching the coroner nor why he would tolerate them being there.

I could understand if they were special crimes or FBI but not regular everyday cops.

Task Force members - &#8220;Three of George Filenko&#8217;s task force members were at the autopsy,&#8221; he said. &#8220;He knows what we found.&#8221;

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...fficers-Shooting-326100651.html#ixzz3lpvRZfUI
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