IL IL - Nancy O'Sullivan, 15, South Holland, 7 March 1974

[inthedark14]

Hi all!

A later reply as I've finally spoken with my lovely mama. You are all doing such awesome research! My little bit to add is not much, I didn't have my math right :blushing: and my dear mom is a bit older than Nancy. She doesn't remember the case or the family name, she had just graduated high school in her new home town the year prior to Nancy's disappearance. However, I can at the least give some insight into the schools in the area at the time and I will, promise, to speak to my two aunts who are closer in age to Nancy as soon as I see them.

The big Catholic grade school in South Holland at the time was Holy Ghost. It is now closed. My mom informed me that there were three in her neighboring town at the time as well. Apparently a lot of these south suburban town had multiple Catholic schools. It's possible that Nancy attended Holy Ghost at some time before her family moved to Homewood. Since she was 15 went she went missing, she could have also attended Seton Academy in South Holland. I believe this is still an all girl's high school, but that might have changed. If she was in a public school it would have been Thornton, in Thornton, IL. In Homewood, the Catholic elementary school was Infant Jesus of Prague, but it is possible that there were others operating at that time. If she was at a Catholic high school it is possible it was Marion in Chicago Heights. The public high school would have most likely been Homewood-Flossmoor High School.

She told me that there used to be a TON of Catholic schools in the area, many of them now closed. When I told her about this case she asked me to send her the link so she could read about it, which of course, I will. When I read her the opening post, she also said that there was no way this girl hitch hiked from the end of someone's driveway. That wasn't how it was done. From one of the main drags, maybe, but certainly not from someone's home.

I don't know if any of this helps, but maybe someone with more sleuthing skills will find something!

Always, MOO

 

[Irish_Eyes]

It could be that he knew the Greg Smith who passed. Or it could be he just went to the library and searched for obituaries of young men who had died who were roughly his age.


I wish I knew where he found that obituary. LOL
But if Psuedo GS is as good as everyone thinks he is, do you think he could have wiped the obituary out of the records to fully assume the identity?

No way. Obituaries were in the paper and most big libraries have microfiche records of old newspapers. He couldn't have gone to all of them. More likely, if it was in the paper or the paper it appeared in isn't yet online in that particular year.

Ancestry.com would seem to suggest someone with pseudo-GS's real surname and a "Jr." (his dad?) lived in NH. This ties in with his friend thinking he sounded like he was from Mass, same area of the country. The article also says GS's middle name was Lloyd. So if our guy isn't a Lloyd then this is all just a crazy red herring. Fascinating though!

 

[jenstar]

it's odd. I agree. I made a timeline of disappearances and it seems that Nancy is the ONLY ONE in her age range (with the exception of one MI girl) that disappeared FROM THE MIDWEST in 1974 (there were a LOT of serial murderers back then in the mid-west, don't get me wrong) . This was compiled with data backed from Namus and the doe network, using girls 12-19 years old. The other girls were from the East Coast (with the exception of two from AZ)..ties to New Hampshire, you say? Of course I'm speculating at this point but who knows. Here's a link to the timeline.
http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/1974-missing-females

 

[Veidt]

I believe these boys are the key. I can see her running to the store, mall, another friends house etc. and forgetting the purse. But heading for home? No. And BTW, where the heck were her parents letting her hitchhike? Sure it was the 70s, but my BFF had to move and we visited back and forth a few times but our parents always took us.

That's not what strikes me as weird - I think it's easy to forget stuff, even when it's not very likely. I know that forgetting my purse miles away from home is the kind of thing that would happen to me. :blushing: From what I gathered, she didn't hitchike there - the hitch hiking report comes from the boys who stated they saw her get into a car. I wonder if her parents have ever discussed whether they thought she would hitch hike, or whether she was allowed to do so.

But I do agree those boys are the key. Their story brings up too many questions. As others have said, how did she find a car so quickly in a residential area? I wonder if it was close to any major routes, thus possibly explaining it, or if she only intended to get out from that area and into a more central place. Also, why would they have seen her hitch hike? It sounds really strange that they'd see this from a distance. Why didn't they wait with her (which it sounds like they didn't or they would be able to give at least some info on the driver)? If they had other things to do, why were they all looking at her at the same time? Etc. I also wonder if the plan was that she had to hitch hike, or if there was a fight or something that led her to do it instead. Most of all, I wonder if there really was a car to begin with. I'm not saying those boys are guilty, but it's really strange to me that one of them is possibly still alive but is completely untraceable.

I also wonder if she hitch hiked to somewhere else and then looked for a second car.

This is all :twocents:.

 

[jenstar]

I agree the boys are the key. And I don't know if posting the living brother's contact info is legal on the site? There's only one Brian Smith in Las Vegas. Who would call him? Are we qualified to do so?
I've only been here for a year so I've never stumbled upon something that required additional questioning.

Also, Kathy seems to have been in her 20's. If anyone would have known what the rules in the house were It'd be her. Can someone ask Kathy this?

 

[jenstar]

Also does anyone else thing it's ODD that the boys called Kathy to get Nancy's purse and not Nancy herself?
Was there some horrible argument that she had to leave suddenly?
Do they remember her making a phone call to someone to come get her? (Maybe they were under the impression she hitchhiked because no one saw her make the phone call)
IMHO She might never have made it out of that house.

 

[danzn16]

Were these boys her same age or older at that time? Did she visit them often?

 

[jenstar]

Were these boys her same age or older at that time? Did she visit them often?

That's what I was trying to figure out.

according to this too.. Nancy was headed to a restaurant, the NAMPN doesn't say that she was at the Smith's house. Why would these stories conflict? When its been confirmed that she was there?

http://www.nampn.org/cases/osullivan_nancy.html

 

[Veidt]

My :twocents::

Are you referring to the remaining boy whose whereabouts we know, or one of Nancy's siblings? If it's one of her siblings I think you could just contact him and see if he would be available to talk to you or even to come to the forum to give us more details. If you do contact him don't just ask him questions, make sure he would be open to that, and make it clear that we're trying to help. Make sure he lets you know if you can share the information he gives you on here. It's probably a very traumatic experience. Either way, I don't think it's ok to post his contact info here but I'm not sure. I'm relatively new as well so I'm just speaking from the threads where people don't even post full names when they're talking about the social media accounts of non-POIs, they just give a link and say stuff like "scroll down, you'll find AB" (random initials).

Do we know that the boys called Kathy specifically? Or did they just call and she was the one who picked up (or one of the younger siblings did, so they asked for Kathy who was an adult)? Maybe she had a license? I've wondered about the fight too.

As far as I've been able to tell from previous posts here, the boys were about her age (give or take a year), not much older or much younger. I'm not sure though.

The NAMPN profile is really strange! I'm assuming that the accurate report is the part about going away to visit friends, not the restaurant one. Maybe they got the case mixed up or were half-reporting. I wonder if someone at some point of the case mentioned a restaurant? If anyone could confirm which version is the correct one that'd be great.

 

[Claudette]

But it seems almost impossible since they're not the same TYPE of victim..and they occur so far apart geographically. I'm working on narrowing down just the "teenagers" in the "midwestern U.S."

Snipped

I've always been interested in true crime, specifically SKs because I grew up not far from John Wayne Gacy's house (after the fact). I went to college with the intention of doing something with criminal psychology (changed my mind), that was about 10 years ago. Anyway, I've recently learned thanks to some awesome members here (shout to FoxFire and the others over at Israel Keyes' thread) that SKs don't always have a "type". I kind of knew this but thought it was uncommon that they didn't have a type. Well, to catch up with the times I've caught up on some studies/reading and in my opinion, MOST SKs don't have a type! Also, geographical location? A fair number of them travel and kill all over the place.

 

[jenstar]

I'm sorry. I meant the remaining Smith boy. Brian. It's a simple search there's only two addresses/phone numbers that come up showing him in Las Vegas. I'm not a great interviewer. I know he was only 8 but even 8 year olds remember things. Does he remember seeing Nancy? Did she make any phone calls from his house? What was Nancy's relationship with the boys? Were there any arguments that day (between anyone, not just nancy.) Sometimes, kids remember what their parents or siblings would have said better than they would a neighbor girl.

And Kathy too. I'd like to know what the rules were in the house, if she were allowed out on a school night. What time she was dropped off there? Things of that sort. The more detail we have the better.

 

[jenstar]

Snipped

I've always been interested in true crime, specifically SKs because I grew up not far from John Wayne Gacy's house (after the fact). I went to college with the intention of doing something with criminal psychology (changed my mind), that was about 10 years ago. Anyway, I've recently learned thanks to some awesome members here (shout to FoxFire and the others over at Israel Keyes' thread) that SKs don't always have a "type". I kind of knew this but thought it was uncommon that they didn't have a type. Well, to catch up with the times I've caught up on some studies/reading and in my opinion, MOST SKs don't have a type! Also, geographical location? A fair number of them travel and kill all over the place.

Well in that case Claudette,
There were two 5 year old girls that were abducted with descriptions of a blue/dark vehicle. One profile specifically says late 60-early 70's model Cadilac.
Cynthia Sumpter, San Jose CA disappeared 4/27/1974
Siobhan McGuinness, Missoula Montana 7/3/1974

 

[jenstar]

My assumtion from the timeline was that Nancy was an Isolated incident.
I ruled out serial killers because Gacy,Knowles, and a few others (though not far from the area) took credit for all the murders they did. There were a ton more girls that did go missing in that time frame but they were omitted because of connections to serial killers. Or other family related Isolated incidents.
Then I took away the girls that were less than pre-teens because, I'd also assumed that this guy wasn't just a pedo, or a one time offender. (I was going to make a different timeline too, of little girls abducted too, age range from 3-9.) Assuming~ If there were any connection to Nancy they would fit the same profile in the same area at the time. All this was my own assumption since there was a huge age gap at the time.

Sorry for taking up a bunch of space but here is the complete list of notes that I've compiled in the making of the timeline.

1974 Disappearances/ Female


3/5~(M)Amy Billig (17) Coconut Grove, FL (hitchhiker/ unk. vehicle)
3/7~(M)Nancy O'sullivan (15) South Holland, IL (hitchiker/ blue caddilac)
4/27~(M) Cynthia Sumpter (5) San Jose, CA (abducted~ blue car, desc. of perp included)
5/25~(M) Jennifer Klein (3) Moab, UT (unexplained disappearance)
5/31~(M) Cheryl Hanson (5) Ontario, CAN. (presumed (D) confessed killer/no body.
6/5~(M) Catherine Sjoberg (16) Concord, WI (disappeared from dance hall, near I-94)
6/15~(M) Belinda VanLith (17) Eagle Lake, MN (disappeared while house sitting)
6/22~Annie Yassie (13) Manitoba CAN. (unexplained disappearance)
6/24~Margaret Fox (14) Mt. Holly, NJ. (rode a bus to answer a babysitting ad and never came home.)
7/3~ (D) Siobhan McGuinness (5) Missoula, MT (abducted~60-70's model Caddillac desc.
of perp included. )
7/25~(M)Jean Schoen (9) Jacksonville,FL (disappeared during a trip to the grocery store)
7/31~(M)Cynthia Leslie (15) and sister Jackie Leslie (13) Mesa, AZ. (disappeared going to a party)

More Canada killings Incl. Colleen Mcmillan (16) 7/74 are presumed connected to the
Canada Higway Killings see link..
http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/C/CANADA_HIGHWAY_murders.php

8/9~ (D)Julia McElhiney(11) Oakland CA. (found at home BFT to cranium
convicted killer Curtis Tucker behind bars)
8/16~(M)Nadine O'Dell (15) Inkster, MI (never showed up at her boyfriends in nearby Taylor)
9/3 (M) Teresa Alfonso (12) and Cynthia Gooding (16) Marathon, FL. (disappeared from movie theatre)
11/1~(M)Lisa White (13) Rockville, CT. (left the house of a friend but never made it home)
12/4~(M)Laurie Partridge (17) Spokane, WA. (last seen near her H.S. not feeling well, going for a walk)
12/23~(M)Mary "Rachel" Arnold/ Trlica (17), Renee Wilson (14), Julie Moseley (9) Ft.Worth, TX.
(disappeared while Christmas shopping)

 

[Veidt]

I'm sorry. I meant the remaining Smith boy. Brian. It's a simple search there's only two addresses/phone numbers that come up showing him in Las Vegas. I'm not a great interviewer. I know he was only 8 but even 8 year olds remember things. Does he remember seeing Nancy? Did she make any phone calls from his house? What was Nancy's relationship with the boys? Were there any arguments that day (between anyone, not just nancy.) Sometimes, kids remember what their parents or siblings would have said better than they would a neighbor girl.

And Kathy too. I'd like to know what the rules were in the house, if she were allowed out on a school night. What time she was dropped off there? Things of that sort. The more detail we have the better.

Do you know for a fact it's him? Smith and Brian are fairly common names. Either way, I have no idea if you should call. I hope a mod or one of the more experienced members can give you some advice about this. Maybe try asking in the general information section. I would say go for it but my biggest concern is that if you sound too suspicious, if he really is guilty he might try to cover it up even more.

I think it would be a good idea to let the other members here give suggestions for things you should ask -- details they really want to know about, etc. For my part, I agree with the questions you have in mind. It would help to have a more fleshed out scenario.

By the way, even in this case it's probably still a good idea to ask him first if he would be willing to talk to you. If he's not guilty or at least not directly, it could be traumatic for him and he might be sick of telling the same story over and over to LE.

I'm looking through that list and I think there could be a pattern there.

 

[jenstar]

Do you know for a fact it's him? Smith and Brian are fairly common names. Either way, I have no idea if you should call. I hope a mod or one of the more experienced members can give you some advice about this. Maybe try asking in the general information section. I would say go for it but my biggest concern is that if you sound too suspicious, if he really is guilty he might try to cover it up even more.

I think it would be a good idea to let the other members here give suggestions for things you should ask -- details they really want to know about, etc. For my part, I agree with the questions you have in mind. It would help to have a more fleshed out scenario.

By the way, even in this case it's probably still a good idea to ask him first if he would be willing to talk to you. If he's not guilty or at least not directly, it could be traumatic for him and he might be sick of telling the same story over and over to LE.

I'm looking through that list and I think there could be a pattern there.

No Ma'am! (lol) I'm not calling anyone, I think it's best if we get a list of questions going FIRST. Then talk to a Moderator to see if we can call him or get someone in touch with him preferably LE. And then go from there.

Also we need to get Kathy involved here...MODERATOR??? lol

BTW I see the east coast pattern too.

 

[Claudette]

I would strongly caution against contacting. I believe it is against "rules" here plus it could come off bad to the the person being contacted. There are a few members here that are LE, ex-LE or for reasons unknown to us have the ability to contact LE and be received openly. Contacting a family member, especially one that could possible be a suspect, could be bad news. Websleuth members have contacted LE before, but I don't recall any contacting family members unless being invited to by said family member.

 

[SophieRose]

When I read her the opening post, she also said that there was no way this girl hitch hiked from the end of someone's driveway. That wasn't how it was done. From one of the main drags, maybe, but certainly not from someone's home.

It was said the boys lived on the 1300 block of 168th Place. I thought maybe if was the corner house and intersected with a busy street, she could have hitched a ride, but it doesn't look like the nearest street would be that busy. A highway is on the other side of the intersection but one would have to hitch from an onramp to the freeway.

Arrow on map is not the boys house, just points to the 1300 block
1300 East 168th Place, South Holland, IL - Google Maps

 

[SophieRose]

According to another forum, Nancy was listed as a runaway for 30 years, which means her disappearance wasn't taken seriously until around 2004. Much information was lost.


http://fromwhisperstor.fr.yuku.com/topic/3016

 

[Sarah]

Been away for a few days so just catching up.

That's what I was trying to figure out.

according to this too.. Nancy was headed to a restaurant, the NAMPN doesn't say that she was at the Smith's house. Why would these stories conflict? When its been confirmed that she was there?

http://www.nampn.org/cases/osullivan_nancy.html

Hmmm . . . interesting. Although I don't think that the two versions are necessarily mutually exclusive.

I wonder if both could be true.
From what we know Nancy was a bit "wild" and had a history of running away and disappearing for a few days at a time - so I can't imagine her parents would have been too thrilled at her going off to visit two boys, one of whom was a drug addict and the other who had a history of violence.

I don't have to stretch my imagination too much to envisage her telling her parents that she was off to a restaurant, but grabbing a lift with her sister and sneaking off to see the boys instead.

 

[Hilda Swenson]

Hey guys, I was trying everything I could to get some information on the brothers. IE (birth/death records) articles of the crash..anything. So far I've come up with this. And it could explain why I've put 10 hours into finding an obituary and NADA.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/LIVIN...ast+of+man+jailed+for+stealing...-a0233889557

Interesting this article links to Greg Lloyd Smith with a DOB 7/3/1962. The article does not link an Illinois locale for him, however. As many have pointed out, common name.