GUILTY IL - Riley Fox, 3, Wilmington, 6 June 2004

[golfmom]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-fox1_webnov17,0,5682187.story

In a brief cross examination, Tyler said he did not remember going to the detectives' office or out to lunch with them and his parents June 22, 2004, the day he spoke with detectives.

Earlier that same day, he had met with forensic interviewer Mary Jane Pluth at the Will County Children's Advocacy Center. Near the end of the session, which lasted an hour and five minutes, and a videotape of which was played in court, Pluth repeatedly asked Tyler if he knew who took Riley from the home and if his dad left with her.

In every instance, Tyler shook his head no or said no. He once said his father left without Riley to go to his vehicle, only to deny it repeatedly later in the session.
..........
Dr. Marcus DeGraw, a pediatrician and child-abuse expert, also testified Friday and critiqued the Advocacy Center interview, which he called "quite poor. It was sloppy, and it was inappropriate in many ways."

He said Pluth's questions were "leading and biased. ... You see slowly through the interview that he continues to withdraw, withdraw, withdraw."

Tyler said he recalled the interview. "She was mean," he said.

 

[golfmom]

:waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: Well, if Kevin and Melissa didn't know the known sex offenders, obviously, they couldn't be suspects. Nice investigation.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-fox_both16nov16,0,3219371.story

Among other suspects were known sex offenders identified by the Illinois State Police, said Will County Sheriff's Deputy Scott Swearengen. He ran those names by Kevin Fox and his wife, Melissa, to see whether they knew any of them, he said.

 

[genecam]

"However, I don't think he can do that, because I seriously doubt that he and Riley are in the same place."

This particular comment is what my earlier post was in regards too...to me this steps over the line. Officer Ruettiger did play a role in this investigation and if his crime was participating in an investigation that was over the line then so be it.. but to blatantly make comments like this above all else is distasteful to this man and his family.

I stand by what I wrote. He should have thought about the effect on his family before he went into that room to terrorize Kevin for 14.5 hours. He knew what he did then was wrong but he went ahead anyway.

Many of us who believe in the hereafter believe there are several places one's soul could reside in. In my religion in order to receive atonement for your sins, you must first confess that you have sinned and then ask for forgiveness from the person against whom you committed the sin.

John Ruettiger is a sinner in this case. He wasn't just a party to a minor mistake. He was willing to send Kevin to death row with no evidence to support it.

If you can provide me with unimpeachable proof that he confessed his sin in wrongfully coercing Kevin Fox to say he killed Riley while Ruettiger knew that there was no proof, and that Ruettiger asked for forgiveness from the Fox family before he died, then I will back off from my statement.

Until then, I don't know where his soul is, but I seriously doubt that it is in the same place as Riley's.

 

[golfmom]

This article is about Rowan Ford, but it made me think about the investigation into Riley's murder. They state that the FBI lab will have DNA evidence within the next week or two ... what happened to the 9 month backlog? And, why even bother to test? They have confessions. It really is a stark contrast comparing Riley's and Rowan's murder investigations.

http://www.ky3.com/news/local/11252961.html

Detectives say both men admitted to raping and murdering the 9-year-old girl at a trailer in Barry County.
......
Some DNA evidence will be back from an FBI laboratory in the next week or two. That could clarify a whole lot of questions surrounding this case.

 

[crash676]

Many of us who believe in the hereafter believe there are several places one's soul could reside in. In my religion in order to receive atonement for
Until then, I don't know where his soul is, but I seriously doubt that it is in the same place as Riley's.[/quote]

To quote religion this is my take on it...


"But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground."
"And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst."
"When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?"
"She said, No man, Lord." "And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." (John 8:2)

 

[genecam]

Many of us who believe in the hereafter believe there are several places one's soul could reside in. In my religion in order to receive atonement for
Until then, I don't know where his soul is, but I seriously doubt that it is in the same place as Riley's.

To quote religion this is my take on it...

"But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground."
"And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst."
"When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?"
"She said, No man, Lord." "And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." (John 8:2)

You have your religion. I have mine. Mine uses only the Old Testament, so I am not familiar with your quote.

As I said, until you can prove that John Ruettiger atoned for his sin by confessing it and asking for forgiveness from the Fox family before he died, then I seriously doubt that his soul is in the same place as Riley's. I remind you, again, that this was going to be a capital punishment case and John Ruettiger was willing to send Kevin Fox to death row to await the gas chamber, and John Ruettiger knew there was no evidence to support it except the phony confession they extorted from Kevin during the 14.5 hours John Ruettiger was in that room with him. That is a sin - mortal, venal or however you want to classify it - but definitely not a minor mistake.

And I thought you said you weren't going to post here anymore since this was getting to be too negative and beneath your standards of good taste, and that you could care less about this civil suit.

As a Will County resident and tax payer I am surprised that you are so dismissive of the civil suit. Don't you realize that if these police officers prevail in this case they will be so full of themselves and think they can get away with anything. You'd have a virtual nazi-style police state in Will County. They would believe they could act with impunity and do to you and yours what they did to the Foxes and know they could get away with it. If it happened to you, would you trivialize it into a minor mistake? I doubt it.

 

[golfmom]

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/655901,4_1_JO18_FOX_S1.article

On the tape, Pluth appears to earnestly try and decipher the boy's answers when he seems to confirm and deny the facts of the case at the same time.

Earnestly, that's an interesting adjective to use, but it really doesn't tell me anything specific about her demeanor on the tape. Also, I'm not really sure why MJP would be trying to CONFIRM or DENY the facts, rather than ESTABLISH the facts. If she's trying to confirm or deny anything, she is automatically leading.

During the investigation, Tyler also returned with detectives to his former residence for an interview that was not recorded.

So the incriminating statements Tyler supposedly said were made not to the "Assistant Director/Forensic Interview" of the Child Advocacy Center but during an unrecorded interview with the detectives. MJP couldn't make heads or tails out of Tyler's statement, but they got him to CONFIRM the facts of their case. This is so like the Ryan Harris case, were an officer managed to get two little boys to confess to him that they killed Ryan in under five minutes.

 

[genecam]

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/655901,4_1_JO18_FOX_S1.article

On the tape, Pluth appears to earnestly try and decipher the boy's answers when he seems to confirm and deny the facts of the case at the same time.

Earnestly, that's an interesting adjective to use, but it really doesn't tell me anything specific about her demeanor on the tape. Also, I'm not really sure why MJP would be trying to CONFIRM or DENY the facts, rather than ESTABLISH the facts. If she's trying to confirm or deny anything, she is automatically leading.

I was surprised when I saw Brian Stanley's by-line on this story. I thought it would be Stewart Warren trying to portray Pluth as competent. I take back what I said about Stanley being a better reporter. He seems to be just as biased against the Foxes as Warren and, to quote the late Mike Royko, the Herald News "is not even something I would use to wrap fish in."

 

[golfmom]

I was surprised when I saw Brian Stanley's by-line on this story. I thought it would be Stewart Warren trying to portray Pluth as competent. I take back what I said about Stanley being a better reporter. He seems to be just as biased against the Foxes as Warren and, to quote the late Mike Royko, the Herald News "is not even something I would use to wrap fish in."

I was surprised at the byline too. The article is definitely slanted pro-defense, but I'll admit I'm biased as well. The Royko quote made me LMAO ... Don't you miss him? I grew up on his columns, they're probably the reason I'm the snarky, skeptical, Chicagoan that I am today.

 

[golfmom]

Oh, I just couldn't resist this one:

The subject of criminal rehabilitation was debated recently in City Hall. It's an appropriate place for this kind of discussion because the city has always employed so many ex-cons and future cons.
Mike Royko

 

[halycon]

Aside from the pro-Kevin cheerleaders here, the word on the streets of Will County, from where the jury for a criminal manslaughter trial will be drawn, is not so sympathetic towards Riley's daddy. And they are in favor of the work done by the investigators and scientists.

Kathy Z. has the bad luck to have this dog and pony show civil trial occuring while Will Co. has a REAL bad cop being exposed: Drew Peterson. So I don't think the jury pool is going to buy that Kevin was treated inappropriately, given the solid evidence against him. What they may wonder is how the DNA canard managed to get him sprung from jail at all. Once it is explained by top flight scientists that DNA in this case is ONLY a Zellner ploy and not of any probative value, jurors will be able to look at all the other evidence...and that won't be good for Kevin. If Zellner had anything real to offer she wouldn't try the tricks she's pulling; all this time and money invested for naught. Did she really think investigators would share their case with her before Kevin is charged with a crime?

All of her trickery may have one result: getting Kevin arrested at the end of this trial when it becomes clear that there is indeed good evidence against him. It's great that people from the community are reminded again just how significant that evidence is. Then the prosecution can show its hand.

Of course, by that time, Chad's money and patience will be exhausted. Will he really want to decimate his kids' (and Kevin's kids) futures by pouring money into a criminal defense? We know Kathy won't give him a break -- it's not like she cares about justice. She'll go on to some other wealthy shnook. Look at her record!

If this civil trial goes belly up for the Fox team, I suspect a quick arrest of Kevin. And that he'll end up with a public defender, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[genecam]

Aside from the pro-Kevin cheerleaders here, the word on the streets of Will County, from where the jury for a criminal manslaughter trial will be drawn, is not so sympathetic towards Riley's daddy. And they are in favor of the work done by the investigators and scientists.

Kathy Z. has the bad luck to have this dog and pony show civil trial occuring while Will Co. has a REAL bad cop being exposed: Drew Peterson. So I don't think the jury pool is going to buy that Kevin was treated inappropriately, given the solid evidence against him. What they may wonder is how the DNA canard managed to get him sprung from jail at all. Once it is explained by top flight scientists that DNA in this case is ONLY a Zellner ploy and not of any probative value, jurors will be able to look at all the other evidence...and that won't be good for Kevin. If Zellner had anything real to offer she wouldn't try the tricks she's pulling; all this time and money invested for naught. Did she really think investigators would share their case with her before Kevin is charged with a crime?

All of her trickery may have one result: getting Kevin arrested at the end of this trial when it becomes clear that there is indeed good evidence against him. It's great that people from the community are reminded again just how significant that evidence is. Then the prosecution can show its hand.

Of course, by that time, Chad's money and patience will be exhausted. Will he really want to decimate his kids' (and Kevin's kids) futures by pouring money into a criminal defense? We know Kathy won't give him a break -- it's not like she cares about justice. She'll go on to some other wealthy shnook. Look at her record!

If this civil trial goes belly up for the Fox team, I suspect a quick arrest of Kevin. And that he'll end up with a public defender, not that there's anything wrong with that.

. . .and just what case are you talking about? I think you got lost along the way trying to post this. You must have posted this on the wrong thread.

I think the rules of this forum prohibit us from speculating about people posting under the influence, but man you sound like you've been in outer space for the last 10 days and you couldn't get back because the space shuttle is running on the same schedule as the CTA.

 

[golfmom]

Haly, you've completely surprised me with a well-thought out and articulate post.

Aside from the pro-Kevin cheerleaders here, the word on the streets of Will County, from where the jury for a criminal manslaughter trial will be drawn, is not so sympathetic towards Riley's daddy. And they are in favor of the work done by the investigators and scientists.

Yes, the world is well aware now of the work done by WC professionals by the example of Kathleen Savio accidentally drowning in an empty bathtub. Also, we now KNOW that in WC if investigators don't like the findings by the scientists, they just change it anyway.

Kathy Z. has the bad luck to have this dog and pony show civil trial occuring while Will Co. has a REAL bad cop being exposed: Drew Peterson. So I don't think the jury pool is going to buy that Kevin was treated inappropriately, given the solid evidence against him. What they may wonder is how the DNA canard managed to get him sprung from jail at all. Once it is explained by top flight scientists that DNA in this case is ONLY a Zellner ploy and not of any probative value, jurors will be able to look at all the other evidence...and that won't be good for Kevin.

The only trick KZ has pulled is exposing the lies by the investigators. Do those top scientists include the Illinois Crime Lab? ... yeah, they've got a great reputation ... cough ... cough ... Pam Fish. Or were you referring to the Coroner's office? You know, those guys that rule murders as accidents for their buddies? The Peterson case only underscores the corruption that is prevalent in the greater-Chicagoland area.

If Zellner had anything real to offer she wouldn't try the tricks she's pulling; all this time and money invested for naught. Did she really think investigators would share their case with her before Kevin is charged with a crime?

All of her trickery may have one result: getting Kevin arrested at the end of this trial when it becomes clear that there is indeed good evidence against him. It's great that people from the community are reminded again just how significant that evidence is. Then the prosecution can show its hand.

If they pop up with any evidence that KZ doesn't know at this point, it had better have been uncovered after KF release. We were well past the point of full discovery. Although she was still struggling trying to get everything turned over to her right up to the day of his release. Physical evidence lost, missing or misdirected, pages missing, ADA too busy to make copies. Any slip of paper that was exculpatory disappears or is hidden. Maybe it's in the files of those officers working overtime on the super secret cases they don't want defendants to know about. Pesky thing full discovery ... got to get real creative to hide the truth.

Of course, by that time, Chad's money and patience will be exhausted. Will he really want to decimate his kids' (and Kevin's kids) futures by pouring money into a criminal defense? We know Kathy won't give him a break -- it's not like she cares about justice. She'll go on to some other wealthy shnook. Look at her record!

If this civil trial goes belly up for the Fox team, I suspect a quick arrest of Kevin. And that he'll end up with a public defender, not that there's anything wrong with that.

IF they have enough evidence to arrest him AFTER the civil trial, why didn't they just go ahead and arrest him BEFORE the trial began?
Sure would have made their case easier. :bang: The fact that he's still free and walking around shows what schmucks these detectives are no matter what side of the fence you stand.

 

[Maddy's Mom]

Hello!! Long time no post! Thanks for the pm, GM! Hope you and Genecam are doing well.

I have been following the civil suit and came back to WS to see what was going on here, especially since my Google Alerts does not seem to find as many articles as you guys do!

It breaks my heart reading about Tyler's testimony. He seems to have blocked out most of his life in Wilmington. As is normal for someone so young to go through something so traumatic - he probably erased that time of his life in order to cope. I pray he has received the help he needs to stay healthy and adjusted.

So - there were TWO different strands of DNA on the tape, huh? So, that would mean there were 2 monters involved here. Unless monster guy stole the tape from legit guy who had been using it for its intended purposes. In one of the articles it said the tape was cut, not torn, therefore indicating an organized killer. How did DNA get on the tape if it was cut? I always imagined the turd ripping the tape w/ his teeth. And if there were 2 people involved, that kind of blows the whole "guy hiding IN the house" theory, because that was a very small house and for 2 people to be inside of it when they got home without Kevin noticing ANYTHING would be very hard to believe. I still think someone was waiting outside when they got home.

Pat Berry said at the beginning of the suit that he thought they might settle because there had been talks of a settlement. I was glad when Zellner came back with "No way in hell" on that one. I believe the Foxes want all this out in the open. They have to go through having all the details thrown out in public so that hopefully, at the end of all this, the attention will be put back where it belongs - on Riley and finding her killer. I wish they could move on with their lives. I know they don't want to forget Riley by any means, but I do wish they didn't have to relive that night and what happened to her all over again.

 

[Maddy's Mom]

Genecam, it's interesting to see the wake-up call folks are getting on WC and the investigation into Drew Peterson's third wife's death. People are stunned wondering how her death could be ruled accidental based on the evidence. I'm not, it is Illinois after all. :innocent:

This just stinks of Will County, doesn't it?!? As soon as I heard about the 3rd wife and how he is a cop I figured her death wasn't just an accident! It reeks of a cover up to protect their own! When Stacy was reported missing, Bolingbrook PD called in the State Police right away because they called it a conflict of interest. They didnt' call it that when wife #3 died. I guess with #4 they figured they couldn't cover for him again and got smart about the proper chain of command!

 

[golfmom]

This just stinks of Will County, doesn't it?!? As soon as I heard about the 3rd wife and how he is a cop I figured her death wasn't just an accident! It reeks of a cover up to protect their own! When Stacy was reported missing, Bolingbrook PD called in the State Police right away because they called it a conflict of interest. They didnt' call it that when wife #3 died. I guess with #4 they figured they couldn't cover for him again and got smart about the proper chain of command!

I think Drew used up his nine lives by the time Stacy disappeared. Interesting that he was FIRED for a super-secret undercover drug investigation (i.e., on the take) that put other officers lives in danger. YET, a judge decided that punishment was too harsh and let him return to the job. Word is that some of the players involved are in hiding ... afraid of the Bollingbrook PD.

 

[golfmom]

Hello!! Long time no post! Thanks for the pm, GM! Hope you and Genecam are doing well.

I have been following the civil suit and came back to WS to see what was going on here, especially since my Google Alerts does not seem to find as many articles as you guys do!

It breaks my heart reading about Tyler's testimony. He seems to have blocked out most of his life in Wilmington. As is normal for someone so young to go through something so traumatic - he probably erased that time of his life in order to cope. I pray he has received the help he needs to stay healthy and adjusted.

So - there were TWO different strands of DNA on the tape, huh? So, that would mean there were 2 monters involved here. Unless monster guy stole the tape from legit guy who had been using it for its intended purposes. In one of the articles it said the tape was cut, not torn, therefore indicating an organized killer. How did DNA get on the tape if it was cut? I always imagined the turd ripping the tape w/ his teeth. And if there were 2 people involved, that kind of blows the whole "guy hiding IN the house" theory, because that was a very small house and for 2 people to be inside of it when they got home without Kevin noticing ANYTHING would be very hard to believe. I still think someone was waiting outside when they got home.

Pat Berry said at the beginning of the suit that he thought they might settle because there had been talks of a settlement. I was glad when Zellner came back with "No way in hell" on that one. I believe the Foxes want all this out in the open. They have to go through having all the details thrown out in public so that hopefully, at the end of all this, the attention will be put back where it belongs - on Riley and finding her killer. I wish they could move on with their lives. I know they don't want to forget Riley by any means, but I do wish they didn't have to relive that night and what happened to her all over again.

Welcome Back! You were missed! I'm glad that they didn't settle too ... I want every bit of dirty laundry from the case to air. Unfortunately, since Tomczak was dropped media coverage has been light as well as (IMHO) slanted pro-defense. I can't believe that reporter used the word "earnestly" ... sounds more like the word "aggressively" belonged there. That poor little boy.

 

[Maddy's Mom]

Welcome Back! You were missed! I'm glad that they didn't settle too ... I want every bit of dirty laundry from the case to air. Unfortunately, since Tomczak was dropped media coverage has been light as well as (IMHO) slanted pro-defense. I can't believe that reporter used the word "earnestly" ... sounds more like the word "aggressively" belonged there. That poor little boy.

I agree, GM. Why don't people understand the truth is in the DNA? You can't change it, alter it, hide it, or escape from it. I don't understand why they are all for the defense when it is so obvious what happened here! I still don't get why they dropped Tomczak unless he is going to drop something about the other defendents. Hmmmm....

 

[huk]

Kathy Z. has the bad luck to have this dog and pony show civil trial occuring while Will Co. has a REAL bad cop being exposed: Drew Peterson. So I don't think the jury pool is going to buy that Kevin was treated inappropriately, given the solid evidence against him.

In general, haly, I think you are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are mistaken here. What the Drew Peterson case does is shows the jury pool how corrupt cops can be. That can only help Kevin...

 

[golfmom]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-071119foxweb19,1,1334751.story