GUILTY IL - Riley Fox, 3, Wilmington, 6 June 2004

[golfmom]

Just in case anyone's interested, Kathleen Zellner begins another trial today which focuses on an alleged false confession.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=108209

Much of the case may boil down to forensic evidence.

Thames' confession to the killing was caught on video -- one of the first tests of a state law requiring such documentation in murder cases, but a judge in August agreed with defense complaints about the taping and barred most of her statements from being played at trial.

Thames, 50, of downstate Bloomington, has spent more than two years in jail since the Aug. 12, 2005, morning she says she simply awoke to find Wolosick's bloody body in the master bedroom's bed.

 

[dannyd]

[SIZE=]Hey guys, been awhile. I caught this in a local Joliet paper the other day. This is the type of info I was looking for. It looks to be in an Opinoin pge so I asume it is verified. The author looks to be a minister[/SIZE]



Detectives acted properly in murder probe


http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/opinions/740481,4_4_JO15_GUEST_S1.article

January 15, 2008

I have been involved in law enforcement as a chaplain for more than 35 years, and I can say that law enforcement officers are decent people who are tasked with a very tough job. I fully support the Will County Sheriff's police deputies.

 

[lisag]

Interesting....

 

[dannyd]

Genecam, I can't really disagree too much about the state of the catholic church. But to my knowledge (via a little internet research) I can't find anything bad about this priest. Below is a sampling of at least a couple of inconsistent statements made by Kevin and Melissa and the consistent statements made be the cops. It at least shows me that the Fox's aren't 100% honest and at least shows me that at least some statements the cops made proved to be correct even when placed in doubt by the Fox's. This, again is why I asked early on if anyone knew the cops personally (I will admit that I am usually more pro-police) so as to see if there was any reason not to give these guys the benefit of some doubt. By the way my cop friend just has not answered back about this thing, he doesn't seem to want to comment. He did think it was interesting that the D/A was dropped so quickly at the start when this entire case was supposed to be a conspiracy to get him re-elected. Again another reason why I think something else is in play here. It will be interesting to see what happens to the appeal. Does anyone know where the appeal goes? I mean does it go back before the same judge or district court or does it go to the Supreme court or where?

New details arise in Fox's civil rights suit---Chicago Trib in Sept. '07
Among the new details is the allegation that Melissa Fox said to her husband, Kevin, 'something to the effect of, 'You better not be involved in this' or, 'What did you do?' ' after she learned their 3-year-old daughter, Riley, was missing on June 6, 2004.
Melissa Fox denies making such statements

Swearengen in court testimony-----Chicago Trib article
'You better not be involved in this,' Melissa Fox told Kevin Fox, Sheriff's Deputy Scott Swearengen alleged. But Swearengen, the first defendant to be called in a trial to determine whether the civil rights of Melissa Fox and her husband, who was charged in his daughter's death, were violated, said he never put that in a police report.
Melissa Fox has denied making the comment, according to court documents
Swearengen said the comment was overheard by Illinois State Police----- Sgt. Victor Markowski said he was present when Melissa was told that her husband was a suspect. 'She indicated that she had begun to wonder whether Kevin had been involved,' he said.
On cross-examination, she admitted saying to Kevin, after he reported Riley missing, that 'you better not be lying. Did you do something stupid?'--Chicago Trib article. 11/30/07

Kevin Fox, meanwhile, submitted an affidavit from an attorney who said he told sheriff's personnel long before Fox made his statement that they could not interview any family members without him being present.

On cross-examination, Stephan said he talked via telephone to Kevin, and possibly Melissa, before issuing the letter. He said he had no contact with them between that time and Fox's arrest-- Chicago Trib 11/19/07

Chicago Magazine Article----2007
Other family members were less comfortable. They urged Kevin to hire an attorney. But after briefly talking to one lawyer, Kevin dismissed the idea. "I felt like I had nothing to hide," he says, and he worried that hiring an attorney might make him look guilty.

 

[golfmom]

Hey guys, been awhile. I caught this in a local Joliet paper the other day. This is the type of info I was looking for. It looks to be in an Opinoin pge so I asume it is verified. The author looks to be a minister

Danny, as you pointed out this is an opinion piece. Opinions are not verified, it's no different than anyone of us writing our opinions on a post, blog, etc.

ETA: I guess the Will County Sheriff's Department likes his opinion as well as they posted his letter here: http://www.willcosheriff.com/podcast/video/letter.html

LOL, and we all know what Art Blakey said about opinions. I think I'll stick with my own.

 

[genecam]

Genecam, I can't really disagree too much about the state of the catholic church. But to my knowledge (via a little internet research) I can't find anything bad about this priest. Below is a sampling of at least a couple of inconsistent statements made by Kevin and Melissa and the consistent statements made be the cops. It at least shows me that the Fox's aren't 100% honest and at least shows me that at least some statements the cops made proved to be correct even when placed in doubt by the Fox's. This, again is why I asked early on if anyone knew the cops personally (I will admit that I am usually more pro-police) so as to see if there was any reason not to give these guys the benefit of some doubt. By the way my cop friend just has not answered back about this thing, he doesn't seem to want to comment. He did think it was interesting that the D/A was dropped so quickly at the start when this entire case was supposed to be a conspiracy to get him re-elected. Again another reason why I think something else is in play here. It will be interesting to see what happens to the appeal. Does anyone know where the appeal goes? I mean does it go back before the same judge or district court or does it go to the Supreme court or where?

New details arise in Fox's civil rights suit---Chicago Trib in Sept. '07
Among the new details is the allegation that Melissa Fox said to her husband, Kevin, 'something to the effect of, 'You better not be involved in this' or, 'What did you do?' ' after she learned their 3-year-old daughter, Riley, was missing on June 6, 2004.
Melissa Fox denies making such statements

Swearengen in court testimony-----Chicago Trib article
'You better not be involved in this,' Melissa Fox told Kevin Fox, Sheriff's Deputy Scott Swearengen alleged. But Swearengen, the first defendant to be called in a trial to determine whether the civil rights of Melissa Fox and her husband, who was charged in his daughter's death, were violated, said he never put that in a police report.
Melissa Fox has denied making the comment, according to court documents
Swearengen said the comment was overheard by Illinois State Police----- Sgt. Victor Markowski said he was present when Melissa was told that her husband was a suspect. 'She indicated that she had begun to wonder whether Kevin had been involved,' he said.
On cross-examination, she admitted saying to Kevin, after he reported Riley missing, that 'you better not be lying. Did you do something stupid?'--Chicago Trib article. 11/30/07
Kevin Fox, meanwhile, submitted an affidavit from an attorney who said he told sheriff's personnel long before Fox made his statement that they could not interview any family members without him being present.

On cross-examination, Stephan said he talked via telephone to Kevin, and possibly Melissa, before issuing the letter. He said he had no contact with them between that time and Fox's arrest-- Chicago Trib 11/19/07

Chicago Magazine Article----2007
Other family members were less comfortable. They urged Kevin to hire an attorney. But after briefly talking to one lawyer, Kevin dismissed the idea. "I felt like I had nothing to hide," he says, and he worried that hiring an attorney might make him look guilty.

The appeal is made before the Seventh Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals. The next step after that is the U.S. Supreme Court. I doubt that the Supremes, who select very few cases to hear, would vote to hear this one.

Prior to the appeal, the parties go back to Judge Darrah of the U.S. District court for the defense to make post trial motions and for the judge to set the amounts of the appeal bond (to cover all court costs) and the supersedas bond (if the defense wants a stay of execution of the $15.5M award). These bonds are quite costly and might stop the county in it's tracks. Also, the punitive damages - $6.2M of the $15.5M - are not covered by the county's insurance policy. The county is really squirming on that one.

All of the alleged "conflicting statements" were pretty much debunked in court. The detectives had no notes (they destroyed them in violation of state law), no videotapes, no audiotapes, no nothing to support their version of the events leading to Kevin's arrest. The FBI logs supported Hayes telling them to stop all DNA testing, as opposed to Hayes saying he only told them not to test the "extraneous" evidence (tell me, what could be "extraneous" in a case like this.) And Swearengen and Guilfoyle had nothing to back up their testimony that Tyler Fox said his father left the house that night and that Tyler was afraid of his father. Whereas Tyler's own testimony and the videotape of Pluth harassing him directly contradicted Swearengen and Guilfoyle's testimony. I also question the objectivity of Markowski, the State Police Officer. He's probably a buddy of these guys. Melissa only said "Kevin, did you do something stupid?" And it was said when Riley was first reported missing. No one knew Riley was dead at the time or the horrible way she died.

The jury heard all of the evidence. In order to prevail, the Foxes had to convince the jurors that six detectives, the Sheriff and the Coroner were liars. That's really hard to do, but they did it. That's why I believe the Foxes. And my guess is that, even if the jury was allowed to see the videotape of the 20-minute confession the verdict would have been the same. I think the judge was correct in not allowing it, because they didn't videotape the previous 14 hours. My guess is that this case is going nowhere on appeal. In fact, I think the county's insurance carrier will probably make them settle.

Also, the State's Attorney - Tomczak - was not dropped. He settled ($$) right after jury selection and before the trial began. He had a lot more to lose with an unfavorable outcome than the others. The Sheriff and the detectives did not like him nor get along particularly well with him, and I think the initial defense strategy was to "blame it all on Tomczak." I think he saw that right away and bailed with what was left of his reputation in tact. That left the defense with, basically as it turned out, no defense. Makes you wonder why they destroyed all their notes, in a case this big and with the civil suit looming over their heads, and why they didn't bother to tape Kevin's interrogation, or their version of what Tyler said about Kevin's actions. My guess is because none of it would have helped them because they were guilty of serious misconduct here. It's a shame that they can't be tried in criminal court, but that's almost impossible to do.

Also, Williams, Pluth and Dombrowski were not dropped. They settled, too. The only one voluntarily dropped by Zellner was the jail guard.

 

[golfmom]

With the law firmly in place now to video everything, judges are getting a big eye-opener to interrogation techniques in Illinois. And, you have to imagine detectives are now on their best behavior knowing their being taped and they still stray dangerously close or over the line.


http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=112862&src=

In a lengthy speech from the bench last week, Cook County Judge Thomas Fecarotta expressed reservations about the handling of a suspect in about 12 hours of a videotaped interview about a killing in Elk Grove Village.

He found the experience both "interesting and disappointing," Fecarotta said before ruling that about 45 minutes of the tape cannot be used at trial. His disappointments? That the suspect was interviewed for half an hour before he was read his rights to have an attorney present. That police came "dangerously close" to so diluting the suspect's Miranda rights that they almost did not exist. And that police failed to read those rights again after a break in the interview.

Although the judge's ruling leaves more than 11 hours of the interview on the record, his comments raise serious questions about how well-prepared police departments are for videotaped confessions. For this is hardly an isolated case.

 

[genecam]

With the law firmly in place now to video everything, judges are getting a big eye-opener to interrogation techniques in Illinois. And, you have to imagine detectives are now on their best behavior knowing their being taped and they still stray dangerously close or over the line.


http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=112862&src=

In a lengthy speech from the bench last week, Cook County Judge Thomas Fecarotta expressed reservations about the handling of a suspect in about 12 hours of a videotaped interview about a killing in Elk Grove Village.

He found the experience both "interesting and disappointing," Fecarotta said before ruling that about 45 minutes of the tape cannot be used at trial. His disappointments? That the suspect was interviewed for half an hour before he was read his rights to have an attorney present. That police came "dangerously close" to so diluting the suspect's Miranda rights that they almost did not exist. And that police failed to read those rights again after a break in the interview.

Although the judge's ruling leaves more than 11 hours of the interview on the record, his comments raise serious questions about how well-prepared police departments are for videotaped confessions. For this is hardly an isolated case.

After reading this article in its entirety, it made me wonder even more about what transpired during the 14.5 hours the Will County detectives were interrogating Kevin Fox. They had all the video equipment in place to comply with the new law that was to be effective 2 months later, yet they only videotaped the last 20 minutes to "memorialize" the so-called confession. And the defense attorneys were claiming in court that "he did not look like a beaten man" in those 20 minutes. I wonder what they brainwashed or threatened him with, and how they "freshened him up" to make him not look like a beaten man.

I am even more convinced that Judge Darrah ruled correctly in not allowing the tape to be shown during the trial. And I think Judge Fecarotta's comments mirror the thoughts of many other judges, and give Zellner a potent argument before the appellate court, if it ever gets that far. I think that Will County irrevocably damaged its cause by not videotaping the entire interrogation. And I have a strong suspicion as to why they didn't.

 

[crash676]

Also, in his opinion piece, the priest is of the opinion that Ruettiger and Riley are in the same place. I am not a man of the cloth like he is, but I would venture to say this is not true. One of them is looking up through the flames, and the other is looking down through the clouds - with the world in between them.[/quote]

To continually damn a dead man is ignorance at it's best..remind me again when you became the ultimate judge of mankind? This is beyond reproach and I pray that no one ever speaks of you in these terms after your passing. To speak ill of the dead in such a way is just beyond reproach..you may not approve of what he did in life but you did not know him personally. What's more why is he the detective that you seem to be focusing your anger on the most..Oh wait I know the answer because he has passed away and you know it will probably start a nice ripe debate. God bless them both..and you know what the priest is right only Riley and John know the ultimate truth..we have conjecture and speculation..regardless of whether you believe they are in the same place or not..

 

[genecam]

To continually damn a dead man is ignorance at it's best..remind me again when you became the ultimate judge of mankind? This is beyond reproach and I pray that no one ever speaks of you in these terms after your passing. To speak ill of the dead in such a way is just beyond reproach..you may not approve of what he did in life but you did not know him personally. What's more why is he the detective that you seem to be focusing your anger on the most..Oh wait I know the answer because he has passed away and you know it will probably start a nice ripe debate. God bless them both..and you know what the priest is right only Riley and John know the ultimate truth..we have conjecture and speculation..regardless of whether you believe they are in the same place or not..

Overall, I think it is highly inappropriate for the priest to be commenting on this case at all, especially in an opinion piece published in a daily newspaper. In fact, I think it was highly inappropriate for the newspaper to publish the piece in the first place. However, if you read the priest's statement completely, you would see in there that he is implying that the Foxes and their attorneys are, in some way, responsible for Ruettiger's being stricken with cancer and his death. I find THAT way beyond offensive. Also, his cavalier statement about suing the estate of a dead man being nothing but greed is totally self-serving and reflective of the priest's total ignorance of the legal process.

Also, I think only Riley knows the ultimate truth. I think it has been categorically proven that Ruettiger and the surviving detectives do not have a clue as to who killed Riley, and it also has been categorically proven that Kevin Fox was not involved in Riley's death.

And the priest is but another tool the Sheriff and the detectives are using to spread the vicious lies, rumors and innuendo about the Fox family throughout Will County in order to justify their malicious actions in this case.

 

[crash676]

I agree with you about the opinion piece in the Herald News. I beleive it was highly inappropraite for the priest to imply that his involvment in Riley's case allegedly caused his ultimate death from cancer. And yes I do believe the fact that he is the chaplain for Will County does show an obvious bias. I would never defend his statement either. My aggravation and it is not just with you it is also with this priest..and that we are not judge and jury over this man's life and to continually damn him to hell in your statements or exhalt him to heaven as in the priest's statement is not our place. It is the place of God or whatever higher power you believe. Though I may not agree with everything that Mr. Ruettiger did in his life I believe that he deserves respect as a human being and to not be judged by someone who did not know him other than to read of his action or inactions in newspaper articles and court transcripts.

 

[genecam]

I agree with you about the opinion piece in the Herald News. I beleive it was highly inappropraite for the priest to imply that his involvment in Riley's case allegedly caused his ultimate death from cancer. And yes I do believe the fact that he is the chaplain for Will County does show an obvious bias. I would never defend his statement either. My aggravation and it is not just with you it is also with this priest..and that we are not judge and jury over this man's life and to continually damn him to hell in your statements or exhalt him to heaven as in the priest's statement is not our place. It is the place of God or whatever higher power you believe. Though I may not agree with everything that Mr. Ruettiger did in his life I believe that he deserves respect as a human being and to not be judged by someone who did not know him other than to read of his action or inactions in newspaper articles and court transcripts.

I am not judging John Ruettiger. I have stated that, absent any evidence to the contrary, he went to his death knowing that he was a significant party towards sending an innocent man to the gas chamber. I will rescind my opinion about his final resting place if you or anyone can show me some credible evidence that he acknowledged that he acted wrongly with regard to the interrogation and arrest of Kevin Fox.

Also, would you please quit with the pop psychology analysis. I do not have an anger problem. I have not made any personal comments concerning you trying to be the arbiter of what is and isn't good taste. Please do not make any more negative personal comments about me, since you do not know me or anything about me. We can disagree, and we can agree to disagree. Just because I disagree with you about John Ruettiger or anything else about this case, it doesn't mean that I have a pervasive anger or hatred toward him, the rest of Will County LE or law enforcement in general. There is good law enforcement and bad law enforcement. I am somewhat disappointed that a number of people, IMHO only, don't seem to know the difference, and even more disappointed, IMHO only, that some of those that don't seem to know the difference are in law enforcement.

And on the matter of tasteless remarks - when Kevin Fox was first arrested, I recall many comments posted about Kevin and about other members who believed in Kevin's innocence even then that were in far, far worse taste than anything I have ever posted about John Ruettiger. And I do not recall you or anyone else, including those who supposedly have since changed their minds after the DNA exonerated Kevin, condemning those posts for being in bad taste, angry, hateful or any other negative attribution. I think it's only fair that posts about John Ruettiger be held to the same standard that measured those early posts about Kevin Fox and his supporters on this blog. If it was open season on Kevin Fox and me and his other websleuth supporters from October 2004 to June 2005, and nobody said anything about it then, then, as far as I'm concerned, based on all of the lies Ruettiger's surviving colleagues told on the witness stand, and implicated him as a willing collaborator, it's open season on John Ruettiger, as well as the other detectives, now.

 

[crash676]

Genecam you never seem to amaze with your views. Apparently we are going to have to disagree on just about everything again. Pop pschcology..never. not worth my time opinions.. oh yes.. I have them and they are strong just as yours are. We both feel very strongly on this issue and therefore our feelings tend to run hot on this particular case. So please reserve leaving something callous when I say that while I respectively appreciate your views I do not always agree with them. But I love the spirited debate and precision with you always post. Even though it make my blood boil sometimes. I hope that now that this trial is over for now that you and I and the others on this board can focus on making sure that LE starts to do their job correctly and find this little girls killer..

 

[genecam]

Genecam you never seem to amaze with your views. Apparently we are going to have to disagree on just about everything again. Pop pschcology..never. not worth my time opinions.. oh yes.. I have them and they are strong just as yours are. We both feel very strongly on this issue and therefore our feelings tend to run hot on this particular case. So please reserve leaving something callous when I say that while I respectively appreciate your views I do not always agree with them. But I love the spirited debate and precision with you always post. Even though it make my blood boil sometimes. I hope that now that this trial is over for now that you and I and the others on this board can focus on making sure that LE starts to do their job correctly and find this little girls killer..

Well said.

PS - I love duck. Canard a l'orange is one of my favorite dishes. However, it is by far the best roasted in the oven. Like all other good dishes, the microwave just doesn't do it justice. However, if it's still walking and talking, that's another story.

 

[golfmom]

:laugh: :laugh:

Well said.

PS - I love duck. Canard a l'orange is one of my favorite dishes. However, it is by far the best roasted in the oven. Like all other good dishes, the microwave just doesn't do it justice. However, if it's still walking and talking, that's another story.

And I thought the goose was amusing!

 

[genecam]

I hate to disappoint you (actually I LOVE to disappoint you), but you are wrong once again. I have no idea who you are talking about.

Also, there are pretty strict rules here about using multiple aliases, and the mod squad is very good about discovering them. I am sure you wouldn't take my word for it, so why don't you ask them to check it out.

 

[lisag]

I hate to disappoint you (actually I LOVE to disappoint you), but you are wrong once again. I have no idea who you are talking about.

Also, there are pretty strict rules here about using multiple aliases, and the mod squad is very good about discovering them. I am sure you wouldn't take my word for it, so why don't you ask them to check it out.

If you are using a different e-mail address and a different computer - then there would be no way of knowing...
But - we wont argue back and forth about who you are or are not... I just have my ideas...

 

[golfmom]

If you are using a different e-mail address and a different computer - then there would be no way of knowing...
But - we wont argue back and forth about who you are or are not... I just have my ideas...

Lisa, I can state with 100% certainty that genecam is NOT SB.

 

[lisag]

Yes, and your ideas have been wrong about everything concerning this case, from the beginning. So I'm not surprised that you are equally lacking in perception concerning my identity - which, BTW is NOYB.

k.....

 

[genecam]

Lisa, I can state with 100% certainty that genecam is NOT SB.

And Lisa I, too, can state with 100% certainty that I am NOT SB.

Who is SB anyway? Obviously, if you thought I was SB, he or she must be equally as charming, delightful and intelligent as I am.