Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #10 *Still Missing*

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tresir2012 said:
Not only that but they will still be able to visit him for years because of the appeal process. But will they visit him? I don't think they will. They didn't visit him when he wasn't a murderer so why would they visit him now?
Click to expand...

Not sure, but at least they will have that option. Yingying’s family won’t. They might not even ever be able to visit her grave, at the rate this is going.......
 
[QUOTE="kittythehare, post: 15242534, member: 164985"

No proof at all has been offered of a dismemberment.
All we actually have is a dead cadaver dog's alleged signal that she died during that kidnapping.
Dog subsequently died, but its unlikely he would have testified in any case..
No proof of rape.
No proof bat was used in the way he said it was used.
No trail at all... sporadic searching after the first 2-3 weeks and those searches were merely following up tips and revealed nothing.
Much evidence listed that was not presented...[/QUOTE]

Can't get bold to work but:

Why wasn't proof shown of a dismemberment?

Why was there no proof bat was used in the way he said it was used. I don't like to say this BUT was bat used on YY in a sexual manner?

Sorry for saying that, it's left me sick to the stomach writing it.
 
altojack said:
[QUOTE="kittythehare, post: 15242534, member: 164985"

No proof at all has been offered of a dismemberment.
All we actually have is a dead cadaver dog's alleged signal that she died during that kidnapping.
Dog subsequently died, but its unlikely he would have testified in any case..
No proof of rape.
No proof bat was used in the way he said it was used.
No trail at all... sporadic searching after the first 2-3 weeks and those searches were merely following up tips and revealed nothing.
Much evidence listed that was not presented...
Click to expand...

Can't get bold to work but:

Why wasn't proof shown of a dismemberment?

Why was there no proof bat was used in the way he said it was used. I don't like to say this BUT was bat used on YY in a sexual manner?

Sorry for saying that, it's left me sick to the stomach writing it.[/QUOTE]

It could well have been, the DNA did not specify which body fluids carried it.
Could also have been used to stun her to get her immobilised and bagged, but that too is a theory that was never proved because no bag was located ever.

I think the burden of proof needs to be higher, it is not, just words.
I cannot see how they can accept his words for part of the vigil tape convo while not accepting he may have actually killed 12 others, they're not denying he killed 12 others but they just sent his DNA to one crime database in March!!!
Petrol could have been used in that way too- to burn and scorch- the ultimate torture...
it's a shame we will never know... unless somebody either finds her body or puts a clamp or a nutcracker on his testicles at some stage.
 
Went to closing arguments. Saw the prosecution. Had to leave before the defense. Took a long time to get going, because Shadid read the jury instructions *before* the arguments, and that took forever and a day.

My pen died during the arguments, so I couldn’t take notes, but I remembered a couple things of note. Nelson gave the closing statement.

1) Nelson says Yingying tried to pull the knife out of her neck after BC stuck it in her immediately following being struck in the head with the bat. So, possible she was alive while being decapitated.

2) Conseling Center: Nelson says that BC “not wanting to be that type of person” is a lie. Only went because Michelle wanted him to go. Michelle saysBC is good liar, says that second visit and saying no plans to commit murder was a lie.

3) cleaning in Astra extensive; not just front passenger seat, but back seat and trunk. Luminol staining shows up on seat fabric. FBI agent says this is rare because cleaners usually soak deep into the seat and Luminol staining not visible on the surface of seats. For it to show up on the seat means lots of cleaning agent used. He didn’t say this, but this indicates she was likely beaten and bleeding in the car, and could also indicate her remains taken out in the car.

4) Got rid of bag on Monday. Nelson doesn’t mention her body being disposed on Monday, but mentions that they think her stuff (clothes, backpack, books, iPhone, glasses) were in the bag when he disposed of it on Monday.

I don’t expect fast decision. Before weighing, they have to vote on all the statutory and non-statutory factors to determine which ones are proven and under consideration for weighing against the mitigating factors. Then they h@ve to go through all ~50 mitigating factors and see which ones are proved by preponderance of evidence; they have to write in the # of jurors who find each mitigating factor proved on a blank after each listed factor. That will take some time.

Still, I don’t think it will take forever. If they h@ve a verdict by the end of the week, my guess is it will be death. If it drags into mid-late next week, it will be life in prison.
 
dm92 said:
Went to closing arguments. Saw the prosecution. Had to leave before the defense. Took a long time to get going, because Shadid read the jury instructions *before* the arguments, and that took forever and a day.

My pen died during the arguments, so I couldn’t take notes, but I remembered a couple things of note. Nelson gave the closing statement.

1) Nelson says Yingying tried to pull the knife out of her neck after BC stuck it in her immediately following being struck in the head with the bat. So, possible she was alive while being decapitated.

2) Conseling Center: Nelson says that BC “not wanting to be that type of person” is a lie. Only went because Michelle wanted him to go. Michelle saysBC is good liar, says that second visit and saying no plans to commit murder was a lie.

3) cleaning in Astra extensive; not just front passenger seat, but back seat and trunk. Luminol staining shows up on seat fabric. FBI agent says this is rare because cleaners usually soak deep into the seat and Luminol staining not visible on the surface of seats. For it to show up on the seat means lots of cleaning agent used. He didn’t say this, but this indicates she was likely beaten and bleeding in the car, and could also indicate her remains taken out in the car.

4) Got rid of bag on Monday. Nelson doesn’t mention her body being disposed on Monday, but mentions that they think her stuff (clothes, backpack, books, iPhone, glasses) were in the bag when he disposed of it on Monday.

I don’t expect fast decision. Before weighing, they have to vote on all the statutory and non-statutory factors to determine which ones are proven and under consideration for weighing against the mitigating factors. Then they h@ve to go through all ~50 mitigating factors and see which ones are proved by preponderance of evidence; they have to write in the # of jurors who find each mitigating factor proved on a blank after each listed factor. That will take some time.

Still, I don’t think it will take forever. If they h@ve a verdict by the end of the week, my guess is it will be death. If it drags into mid-late next week, it will be life in prison.
Click to expand...

Thanks DM.
Did it sound credible?
Have they proved any of those assertions?
Were you impressed or disappointed?
 
altojack said:
[QUOTE="kittythehare, post: 15242534, member: 164985"

No proof at all has been offered of a dismemberment.
All we actually have is a dead cadaver dog's alleged signal that she died during that kidnapping.
Dog subsequently died, but its unlikely he would have testified in any case..
No proof of rape.
No proof bat was used in the way he said it was used.
No trail at all... sporadic searching after the first 2-3 weeks and those searches were merely following up tips and revealed nothing.
Much evidence listed that was not presented...
Click to expand...

Can't get bold to work but:

Why wasn't proof shown of a dismemberment?

Why was there no proof bat was used in the way he said it was used. I don't like to say this BUT was bat used on YY in a sexual manner?

Sorry for saying that, it's left me sick to the stomach writing it.[/QUOTE]

There is no way they can prove dismemberment without her body, or video of him doing it. However, They have his words. Jurors can weigh the testimony they hear and decide with their common sense what they believe is credible. If a juror hears BC’s words and believes them, then that is all they need.

Yes, BC was a good liar, as Michelle said. But again, liars can lie about anything, but that doesn’t mean they lie about *everything*. If the jurors believe he isn’t lying when he tells Bullis what he did, then they have all the evidence they need. They are allowed to make inferences.
 
@DM.. another question
He told Michelle he was going round to Tb's place on Monday when he left with the bag.
Yet, no track has been provided of any vehicle movement since the Friday...
Did he drive or walk 'toTb's' place?
Looks like we have 2 disposal sites, possibly
 
kittythehare said:
Thanks DM.
Did it sound credible?
Have they proved any of those assertions?
Were you impressed or disappointed?
Click to expand...

Got to run, but it sounds credible. Remember, they don’t have to provide ABSOLUTE 100% irrrefutable proof. Just proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Jurors are allowed to use their common sense and make inferences. They are also allowed to weigh testimony and 3vidence and decide what they believe and what they think is credible. If a juror hears BC on the tape and believes he is telling the truth about what he did, that is all the evidence they need.....
 
I just don't know about the Prosecution's closing statement. To me, the most important issue has been his refusal to give the family peace. I would've liked to hear:

"The defense has given you 50 mitigating factors, I will give you 50 reasons to put him to death: "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER STIL REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS" "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER STILL REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS" "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS"

And I would've repeated that 50 times and sat down.
 
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AnemoneBrown said:
I just don't know about the Prosecution's closing statement. To me, the most important issue has been his refusal to give the family peace. I would've liked to hear:

"The defense has given you 50 mitigating factors, I will give you 50 reasons to put him to death: "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS" "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS" "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS"

And I would've repeated that 50 times and sat down.
Click to expand...


And the very reason they will not do that is it would entail opening of the content of the plea deal, something the prosecution does not want to happen.
Go figger!
 
AnemoneBrown said:
I just don't know about the Prosecution's closing statement. To me, the most important issue has been his refusal to give the family peace. I would've liked to hear:

"The defense has given you 50 mitigating factors, I will give you 50 reasons to put him to death: "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS" "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS" "THIS REMORSELESS MURDERER REFUSES TO GIVE YINGYING'S FAMILY THE LOCATION OF HER REMAINS"

And I would've repeated that 50 times and sit down.
Click to expand...

That's one way to get the point across. Good job I'm not there, I would have been evicted long ago. BC makes my blood boil, Prosecution makes my blood boil because I'm not getting the impression they are forceful enough.

As for the Defence, I'd best keep quiet.
 
kittythehare said:
And the very reason they will not do that is it would entail opening of the content of the plea deal, something the prosecution does not want to happen.
Go figger!
Click to expand...

Wasn't there something said about Prosecution not believing BC about a deal telling where remains were? If they would take DP off the table. Prosecution don't want motion open and for YYs family to know. I could be wrong.
 
altojack said:
Wasn't there something said about Prosecution not believing BC about a deal telling where remains were? If they would take DP off the table. Prosecution don't want motion open and for YYs family to know. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
truth and they ceded quite a lot of evidence in return..
You know, all along I expected some stroke of genius to come from defense.. some master stroke... still waitin'..
be cool if they broke the agreement in a futile attempt to save his life, if they do not, the whole 2 years has been a complete waste of time.
TB's tape is all they got.
That's the case.
 
Federal prosecutors and defense attorneys spent the morning on lengthy closing statements

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Matt Masterson

@ByMattMasterson
·
5m

"He killed for sport and because he thought he could get away with it," Asst. U.S. Attorney James Nelson said during his closings. Nelson implied Christensen eventually confessed because he wanted to be known as a killer

1

2

1







Matt Masterson

@ByMattMasterson
·
4m

"The defendant ultimately learned the downside of getting away with murder is no one knows about it," Nelson said of Christensen. "Pride goes before the fall. The defendant's arrogance was his undoing."

1

1








Matt Masterson

@ByMattMasterson
·
4m

Federal defender Elisabeth Pollock asked for mercy for Christensen during her closings, saying her client tried to fight his demons and sought help before ultimately kidnapping and killing Yingying Zhang

edit
"He's leaving prison in a casket," Pollock said. "The only question is when."
 
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