Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #11 *GUILTY*

[Webthrush]

<snip>....
based on the area several blocks west of Bradley on Goodwin, I have an idea where he may have taken her to restrain her and get her in the bag. It would be along the tracks, and a bit north of the downtown Champaign area.

any chance you can give some street names or coordinates for that, that we can look up on Google maps to view?
I'll reiterate again I don't think he could just stuff a squirming, grunting, fighting victim into the duffel bag (even bound up) and safely return to his apt. I think most of the crime happened wherever he drove her to, and she was put in the bag either unconscious or dead -- he took her back to the apt. and did things to the body that left the blood/DNA findings, but I think the main crime spot was likely within 30 mins. driving from the abduction point (of course disposal is an entirely different matter).

 

[trunkizback]

Know what really pisses me off? ( besides the obvious murder)? We all sat here cooling our jets for 2 freakin years, thinking we would get our answers at the trial. Pffftt...wrong!!
We don't know where or when he did this. Hell. To be honest we don't really even know he did do it. I mean yeah he told TB he did but really? Whew. The FBI sure looks a lot smarter in the movies. How in the hell do they not have a fix on that cars movements?

And to DM22. You talkin about the field south and west of where she was moving to? I noticed a lot of new low income housing going up there.

 

[kittythehare]

Know what really pisses me off? ( besides the obvious murder)? We all sat here cooling our jets for 2 freakin years, thinking we would get our answers at the trial. Pffftt...wrong!!
We don't know where or when he did this. Hell. To be honest we don't really even know he did do it. I mean yeah he told TB he did but really? Whew. The FBI sure looks a lot smarter in the movies. How in the hell do they not have a fix on that cars movements?

And to DM22. You talkin about the field south and west of where she was moving to? I noticed a lot of new low income housing going up there.

I knew we'd get no answers from a fed trial...
BUT, I expected we'd get a few crumbs to work on... instead we got noting at all, less than nothing.
Why was he needing to watch *advertiser censored* on his secret files at 9 on the night she vanished?
For sexual stimulation? Or instructions?
Did he use her body to make a movie?

He could have quite easily andsafely chopped her up in the cornfields.
Why bring her home at all unless he neede electricity or had his apartment 'staged ' in some fashion?
Re fix on car movements? Feds can be quite arrogant in their court presentations and investigations.. they relied too heavily on the tape..
The qty of blood and DNA in his bedroom do not prove death.
Another stupid question that keeps rattling my brain is what was he wearing while killing her?
Were those clothes ever found and examined? I know his shoes were taken. One pair.
Is it possible he had a special apparel for this deed?
Did it or does it now form a part of an occult practice or belief? (His prison book choices were for Satanic stuff)

 

[dm92]

Know what really pisses me off? ( besides the obvious murder)? We all sat here cooling our jets for 2 freakin years, thinking we would get our answers at the trial. Pffftt...wrong!!
We don't know where or when he did this. Hell. To be honest we don't really even know he did do it. I mean yeah he told TB he did but really? Whew. The FBI sure looks a lot smarter in the movies. How in the hell do they not have a fix on that cars movements?

And to DM22. You talkin about the field south and west of where she was moving to? I noticed a lot of new low income housing going up there.

That's one possibility. Back in 2017 that neighborhood was mostly abandoned. They had bought that area up and were demolishing the houses. There is also a lot of open, graveled space along the tracks, and going to the south, there are some warehouse-type buildings next to the gravel along the tracks. He could have turned left onto the gravel and pulled behind one of those buildings and not have been seen from Bradley.

Only problem is in the transcript of the interrogation, Stiverson mentions "closer to the heart of Champaign." The areas I am thinking about are a bit further north than that, but maybe the location of her last ping is not accurate within a few hundred yards so who knows....?

also could be that, after finishing subduing her in one of those areas, he drives toward downtown Champaign proper, and pulls over and disables her phone after hearing it make a chime of some kind

 

[dm92]

any chance you can give some street names or coordinates for that, that we can look up on Google maps to view?
I'll reiterate again I don't think he could just stuff a squirming, grunting, fighting victim into the duffel bag (even bound up) and safely return to his apt. I think most of the crime happened wherever he drove her to, and she was put in the bag either unconscious or dead -- he took her back to the apt. and did things to the body that left the blood/DNA findings, but I think the main crime spot was likely within 30 mins. driving from the abduction point (of course disposal is an entirely different matter).

Remember, though, he didn't have a long walk to his apartment from the parking lot. He could have pulled right up to the door, and had her out of the back seat and in the building within moments. Also, he mentions to Bullis about "negotiating" with her; getting her to just let him do things. Maybe he tells her to calm down and she won't get hurt.

Still makes me livid knowing all this, and then considering that two people can give him a pass because of "substance abuse issues/mom was a drunk, etc......"

 

[kittythehare]

Remember, though, he didn't have a long walk to his apartment from the parking lot. He could have pulled right up to the door, and had her out of the back seat and in the building within moments. Also, he mentions to Bullis about "negotiating" with her; getting her to just let him do things. Maybe he tells her to calm down and she won't get hurt.

Still makes me livid knowing all this, and then considering that two people can give him a pass because of "substance abuse issues/mom was a drunk, etc......"

he probably did try coercing her but I believe it's also likely she was unconscious.. possibly he used ether or some such substance...

That jury thingy-
They had to vote for a punishment.
The punishment choices were bad (lwop) and baddest (dp)
Their choice was meant to be based upon his killing methodology.
That they voted for the lesser punishment makes me wonder how they evaluated the cruelty of the methods he said he used..
How much worse exactly would it needed to have been for them to give him the severest sentence?

Was it not cruel enough for them?

Now, I'd understand it if the decision had been made on paucity of presented findings or that they were inadequate to prove either death or cruel methodology..
But, they accepted he killed her, they didn't dispute the additional cruelty, (I would have asked for more evidence)
yet it was not bad enough or cruel enough for them to not look for an excuse to mitigate his actions..

I'm happy it was lwop because he would wreck the system with bills and lies forever on appeals and mindgames. (also am antiDP)
BUT- they basically decided his crime did not fit into a sufficiently violent category which was liable for DP, to actually impose DP..

It's weird. Feels to be misguided. Poor judgement or poor communication or poor presentation to jury. What exactly would he have needed to have done to Ying Ying Zhang for the jury to vote to give him the appropriate punishment?

I just have an awful sinking feeling that this case will remain an unsolved mystery forever.

 

[lynneboh]

There is an area at the northeast section of Bradley Ave and N Oak St that looks semi abandoned. Just east of RR tracks. A good spot to mess with someone???

 

[kittythehare]

There is an area at the northeast section of Bradley Ave and N Oak St that looks semi abandoned. Just east of RR tracks. A good spot to mess with someone???

would it be a good place for a 'mancave'?
I'm not sure finding where he immobilised her will help us find her body... but I believe he had a man-cave where he stored his secrets..
How far is that place from the gym Lynne?

 

[lynneboh]

would it be a good place for a 'mancave'?
I'm not sure finding where he immobilised her will help us find her body... but I believe he had a man-cave where he stored his secrets..
How far is that place from the gym Lynne?

According to Google Maps approximately 4 miles.

Looks like a couple of unused smaller buildings and a line of trees on the north edge of the property.

Maybe BC could have incapacitated Yingying there?

Homeless people and loners find hidey holes all the time.

 

[kittythehare]

According to Google Maps approximately 4 miles.

Looks like a couple of unused smaller buildings and a line of trees on the north edge of the property.

Maybe BC could have incapacitated Yingying there?

Homeless people and loners find hidey holes all the time.

Sounds like it's worth a look-see, eh?
Not for where he incapacitated her because that trail is closed now, but a hideout he may have used?

 

[kittythehare]

Q,
Suppose he has stored her body somewhere.
Is it possible or likely that he could ask his father to destroy it without anybody knowing?

 

[lynneboh]

Q,
Suppose he has stored her body somewhere.
Is it possible or likely that he could ask his father to destroy it without anybody knowing?

A possibility. Sometimes parents who feel guilty about their estrangement from their kids will do anything for them.

 

[dm92]

he probably did try coercing her but I believe it's also likely she was unconscious.. possibly he used ether or some such substance...

That jury thingy-
They had to vote for a punishment.
The punishment choices were bad (lwop) and baddest (dp)
Their choice was meant to be based upon his killing methodology.
That they voted for the lesser punishment makes me wonder how they evaluated the cruelty of the methods he said he used..
How much worse exactly would it needed to have been for them to give him the severest sentence?

Was it not cruel enough for them?

Now, I'd understand it if the decision had been made on paucity of presented findings or that they were inadequate to prove either death or cruel methodology..
But, they accepted he killed her, they didn't dispute the additional cruelty, (I would have asked for more evidence)
yet it was not bad enough or cruel enough for them to not look for an excuse to mitigate his actions..

I'm happy it was lwop because he would wreck the system with bills and lies forever on appeals and mindgames. (also am antiDP)
BUT- they basically decided his crime did not fit into a sufficiently violent category which was liable for DP, to actually impose DP..

It's weird. Feels to be misguided. Poor judgement or poor communication or poor presentation to jury. What exactly would he have needed to have done to Ying Ying Zhang for the jury to vote to give him the appropriate punishment?

I just have an awful sinking feeling that this case will remain an unsolved mystery forever.

Remember though, 10 DID vote for death. So, for those ten, everything WAS bad enough to outweigh all the mitigating evidence. The prosecution's case was enough to get them to vote for death. I submit it was two who had a soft spot for drunks/substance abusers, coupled with the fact that he wouldn't be a threat to harm more women (or anyone else, for that matter) since he would be in prison, that let him live.

This is why I *hate* that death penalty imposition has to be unanimous. IT is nearly impossible to get 12 people to hold the same opinion about any matter, no matter what it is. When only 1-2 jurors can stop the will of 10-11, then it means that instead of mitigating factors likely being truly present such that a significant percentage of society as a whole could see them and agree with them, we have a situation where 1-2 outliers have a particular hangup or soft spot that they can't see past.

IF it is unsolved, it will be because he won't help solve it. He has nothing to lose now, especially if he doesn't appeal. If he doesn't communicate what he did with her, then it means he is more than happy to know that her family and friends will suffer from ambiguous loss forever.....

 

[dm92]

A possibility. Sometimes parents who feel guilty about their estrangement from their kids will do anything for them.

Then that makes dear old dad an accessory to this crime.

I think this would be a stretch in this case. "Hey dad! Long time no talk! Like, what? 3-4 years? Anyway, so, listen....... I have a favor to ask. A particularly *BIG* favor........."

Also, when would he have asked him to do this? There was only a window of a few days before all his calls were being monitored, and they have his phone records for 9th- 16th, before he was being surveilled......

 

[dm92]

There is an area at the northeast section of Bradley Ave and N Oak St that looks semi abandoned. Just east of RR tracks. A good spot to mess with someone???

They don't look like it, but those buildings are in use by Canadian&Northern RR, the main freight company that uses those tracks. That image is old. The homes west of Oak St are all gone. they were bought and demolished to make room for more low-income subsidized housing. They are building it up now, but back in 2017, those houses were mostly empty or already demolished.

 

[kittythehare]

Then that makes dear old dad an accessory to this crime.

I think this would be a stretch in this case. "Hey dad! Long time no talk! Like, what? 3-4 years? Anyway, so, listen....... I have a favor to ask. A particularly *BIG* favor........."

Also, when would he have asked him to do this? There was only a window of a few days before all his calls were being monitored, and they have his phone records for 9th- 16th, before he was being surveilled......[/QUOTE

My question concerned whether he could ask him NOW.. suppose another search occurred or new info arrived, unlikely as it seems, could he ask him now from his prison without anybody hearing or knowing?

 

[tresir2012]

I *really* hope someone is pointing out to all these people that it was a measly 2 jurors who were responsible for this. It should not be forgotten than 10 voted for death.

I really wish that they would go to a 3/4th majority to get a death sentence (9-3 for death or more). Go ahead and keep it so that you need to have all 12 find intent factors, statutory aggravating factors and non-statutory aggravating factors; but by having it required that 4 jurors or more think that the mitigating factors outweigh the aggravators, you are much more likely to get an outcome that reflects reality, rather than an outcome where you have 1-2 people blow everything up and let some monster have mercy because they have 1-2 mitigating factors that they have an enhanced affinity for and belief in -and think even the slightest presence of those factors for a defendant means mercy no matter what.

To me, if 4-5 or more jurors find mitigating factors outweigh the aggravating ones, then it means that there really is some issue or issues that are important that should be considered for mercy. When it's one or two -ESPECIALLY when those 1-2 have also by result found that a bunch of the intent factors and aggravators have been proven- it's much more likely that there is an mitigator that is of hyperactive and overarching importance to those 1-2 that lead them to give it too much weight.

Not going to make a difference here, I know. It's all like tears in the rain.

Damn, it is so depressing........

I think as long as it is a majority, that death penalty should be allowed. eg 7-5.


It must be very difficult to get a completely unanimous verdict.

We can try it on here. If you think he should have got the DP, please like this post.

 

[tresir2012]

Nauseating. Also, my speculative nature makes me wonder the gender dynamics of this jury. Yes, I am about to guess and surmise not provide facts. The jury had 7 men and 5 women. From the handwriting we can tell the foreperson was a woman. I wonder how much authority she was able to command in that deliberation room. I wonder how forceful she was in sustaining analysis.
I almost get the feeling the foreperson was not trusted and barely listened to. I am not blaming the woman at all but wondering how the majority of the men and the other women in the jury perceived her authority.

The role of the jury foreperson is crucial in deliberations:

1. Ensuring that each jury member is present in the jury room when deliberations begin.

2. Confirming that each juror understands the deliberation procedures and knows that each member is allowed to ask questions s/he may have concerning the case.

3. Ensuring that deliberations are conducted in an orderly manner and that the discussion is open to each member.

4. Ensuring that a jury member does not bully another.

5. Confirming that each juror is aware of his/her responsibilities and that each juror is allowed to state their views and reasons as to their verdict.

6. Communicating on behalf of the jury with the judge.

7. Announcing the verdict.

Jury Foreman Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Perhaps the foreman was one of the 2?

 

[tresir2012]

Yes.
BUT, the case was badly presented.
Far too much evidence redacted, jail letter, for example
Entire Michelle original testimony to FBI including exact content of the dEcember 2016 convo.
Did he actually tell her about prior victims in the course of that convo?

No bathroom evidence found.
No body found.
No proof at all of anything he said he did in the bathroom found.
Dead cadaver dog signal...
His defense crying! Cos he was not his action.
But they didn't allow him to take the stand to prove he was a nice gentle child who once bought a furry toy for his sister...
How much work did they do really?
A 3 week search, a few computer tests, a forensic search of his apartment, all standard...
I'm surprised they even got a conviction.
It really has the feel of a case where the budget was pulled suddenly.

I do wonder how the police feel about it?

Reading all that, the vigil tape, the health interview tape and the admission he did kill her by his defence team, was all out of his own mouth. If he had kept quiet he may have got away with.

 

[kittythehare]

Reading all that, the vigil tape, the health interview tape and the admission he did kill her by his defence team, was all out of his own mouth. If he had kept quiet he may have got away with.

True.
All they could prove was that she was in his apartment and she was injured there but there is no substantial evidence as to the extent of her alleged injuries.
If he had said they had consensual rough sex and she left in the morning...?
They would have found evidence of a big clean-up operation, theyy also had his Amazon list of purchases and all his other purchases which were pretty incriminating?
I just do not know how much of that vigil tape I really believe.
I'm stuck there.