Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #11 *GUILTY*

[kittythehare]

I agree, we stiiiill don’t know anything about that crucial time period from when she got in the car to when he got to his apt. (in 90 mins. he was calling MZ on the phone, I presume from his apt., but what filled those 90 mins.). Assuming he took her inside the apt. in the duffel bag, then he had to stop somewhere after pick-up long enough to subdue her and put her in there, but indeed what else did he do to her at that point, before he ever arrived home?

Supporting that direction is that the car received extra cleaning, particularly on the passenger side.
He expected blood to be found, telling detectives he had cut his finger.
Watering that theory down is that her blood and DNA were located in his bedroom and her dNA located on the bat.
The quantity of blood was never described but when the prosecution were summing up they stated it must have been a lot of blood to have penetrated the carpet. But, as it had been cleaned nad watred down, hydrogen peroxide, the penetration may have occurred due to wetting rather than quantity..?

I'm still unsure why he brought her home at all when he had a car andopen roads at his disposal...I imagine he headed for open roads to begin with his initial attack.
The car had childproof locks.
BC was left-handed.

 

[Webthrush]

<snip>....
I'm still unsure why he brought her home at all when he had a car andopen roads at his disposal...I imagine he headed for open roads to begin with his initial attack.....

Bold added

agreed, bringing her back to the apt. has always been baffling… if he’d already killed her then what would be the point (unless, as elsewhere implied he had necrophiliac or equally-sickening fetishes)… but if she were alive the risks were huge in bringing her back in broad daylight — I live in a college town with lots of apt. complexes, and can’t imagine trying to bring a kidnap victim back to one while trying to evade detection — even if she was knocked out, at some point she would awaken and potentially scream. Or did BC delusionally think she would succumb to his magnificence and fulfill his every wish, only to be surprised when she fought back??? Was killing always the intent or as Kitty has previously wondered was sex slave more his plan… I suspect the Defense still knows a lot more than they've ever told (or at east they know what BC has told them -- truth or not).

 

[kittythehare]

Bold added

agreed, bringing her back to the apt. has always been baffling… if he’d already killed her then what would be the point (unless, as elsewhere implied he had necrophiliac or equally-sickening fetishes)… but if she were alive the risks were huge in bringing her back in broad daylight — I live in a college town with lots of apt. complexes, and can’t imagine trying to bring a kidnap victim back to one while trying to evade detection — even if she was knocked out, at some point she would awaken and potentially scream. Or did BC delusionally think she would succumb to his magnificence and fulfill his every wish, only to be surprised when she fought back??? Was killing always the intent or as Kitty has previously wondered was sex slave more his plan… I suspect the Defense still knows a lot more than they've ever told (or at east they know what BC has told them -- truth or not).

True.
I'm wondering now if the strangulation actually occurred in the car, outa town somewhere before he brought her home...
Suppose he did some of what he told TB he did, but not in sequence or not in same location?
None of us could believe he brught her home at all at the beginning... If he brought her home already dead so he could fulfil some necrophiliac desire, her blood and dNA could easily be present as they described.
If he suspected blood to be in the car and the cleaning was quite extensive and he also brought it for a second cleaning according to Michelle, probably quite a lot happened within that car- somewhere...

I cannot get my mind round him chopping her up, not because it's so ghoulish but because it's so arduous..
Another possibility is that he had the apartment rigged up in a certain way to either scare or or film her death or dismemberment- he wanted fame nad he wanted it badly...
he could have done all he described in the cornfields and there would have been no trace of her in his apartment at all when they came looking, even though he was not expecting them.

He opened his *advertiser censored*-file at around 9 that night, the night he took her... I wonder whether it was to remove something he had taped directly into the file as opposed to seeking further sexual stimulation?
The Prosecution certainly know an awful lot more than they're saying.
Michelle's entire interviews with them, for example.
The redacted texts and messages from her...
His entire web history is missing, we just got an ultra streamlined case presentation.

 

[AnemoneBrown]

The literature on sexual killer profiling has shown killers abduct and kill where they feel most comfortable. BC was not a big outdoorsman, truck-driver, or someone who explored open landscapes. He got drunk at the house and had no friends. He abducted a few steps from his job, killed at home and likely disposed a few steps from his apt. It seems crazy to us, but killers want that familiarity and safety in surroundings. There are exceptions. Peeping toms get used to the layout and set up of strangers' houses.

Bold added

agreed, bringing her back to the apt. has always been baffling… if he’d already killed her then what would be the point (unless, as elsewhere implied he had necrophiliac or equally-sickening fetishes)… but if she were alive the risks were huge in bringing her back in broad daylight — I live in a college town with lots of apt. complexes, and can’t imagine trying to bring a kidnap victim back to one while trying to evade detection — even if she was knocked out, at some point she would awaken and potentially scream. Or did BC delusionally think she would succumb to his magnificence and fulfill his every wish, only to be surprised when she fought back??? Was killing always the intent or as Kitty has previously wondered was sex slave more his plan… I suspect the Defense still knows a lot more than they've ever told (or at east they know what BC has told them -- truth or not).

 

[Webthrush]

The literature on sexual killer profiling has shown killers abduct and kill where they feel most comfortable. BC was not a big outdoorsman, truck-driver, or someone who explored open landscapes. He got drunk at the house and had no friends. He abducted a few steps from his job, killed at home and likely disposed a few steps from his apt. It seems crazy to us, but killers want that familiarity and safety in surroundings. There are exceptions. Peeping toms get used to the layout and set up of strangers' houses.

We really don’t know how outdoorsy BC was (he grew up in a very outdoorsy area of Wisconsin) or what recreational areas he & MZ may have occasionally explored, especially prior to his downward spiral. And while we enjoy painting him as an idiot, he got into one of the best physics programs in the country — he had a logical, methodological, step-by-step mind, and having studied other serial killers no doubt wanted to commit a perfect crime (and but for one street camera may have gotten away with it). Nor do I believe (JMO) that he disposed of the remains anywhere near his apt. but drove them to an outlying site or dumpster (that, if found, wouldn’t be associated with his apt. complex). I can't even recall another case where an abductor brings a victim back in broad daylight to a large-scale apt. complex?

 

[kittythehare]

We really don’t know how outdoorsy BC was (he grew up in a very outdoorsy area of Wisconsin) or what recreational areas he & MZ may have occasionally explored, especially prior to his downward spiral. And while we enjoy painting him as an idiot, he got into one of the best physics programs in the country — he had a logical, methodological, step-by-step mind, and having studied other serial killers no doubt wanted to commit a perfect crime (and but for one street camera may have gotten away with it). Nor do I believe (JMO) that he disposed of the remains anywhere near his apt. but drove them to an outlying site or dumpster (that, if found, wouldn’t be associated with his apt. complex). I can't even recall another case where an abductor brings a victim back in broad daylight to a large-scale apt. complex?

Good points, well made.
Reminds me of how little we actually know.
Big questions are
-WHY did he kill her?
-Is she his first?
- WHY did he pick her up in broad daylight when he had many more options?
-wHY did he bring her home, in broad daylight, while sober?
I can understand sadism, taking pleasure from inflicting pain on another, torture.
I can understand rape.
I can understand strangulation, erotic and other.
Certainly the wording of the superseding indictment led us astray because its wording suggested meticulous planning, to commit a murder, any murder misled us towards thinking a meticulously planned disposal site formed part of the plan and that she would have been held there, dead , as a trophy, or alive as a sex slave.
BUT no plan on earth could imagine why he would have chosen to dismember her afterwards, if that is what happened.
Any plan should have included a means of disposal or preservation...
He was new to the bDSM scene, but he had developed his 'interest in serial killers since January '16.
The character in 'american Psycho' was considered ultra 'cool' and utterly 'stylish', killed clinically, just for the hell of it, without empathy.

She could be anywhere is the truth.
They were able to tract every route his vehicle took on the morning of the abduction and for a very short while following the abduction but then apparently 'lost ' it.
There is simply nothing to go on.

 

[tresir2012]

Perhaps he didn't go anywhere and that's why he is not on cameras anywhere. The dumpsters didn't have cameras till after the event someone said on here Maybe he used all the fuel driving around trying to get his containers and plastic bags and attempting to get other victims before he tried on the one we know about and ultimately poor Ying Ying. Maybe there were others who didn't even report him? The police didn't do much about the one report IIRC so maybe other reports were lost even.

 

[Raptors001]

M

True.
I'm wondering now if the strangulation actually occurred in the car, outa town somewhere before he brought her home...
Suppose he did some of what he told TB he did, but not in sequence or not in same location?
None of us could believe he brught her home at all at the beginning... If he brought her home already dead so he could fulfil some necrophiliac desire, her blood and dNA could easily be present as they described.
If he suspected blood to be in the car and the cleaning was quite extensive and he also brought it for a second cleaning according to Michelle, probably quite a lot happened within that car- somewhere...

I cannot get my mind round him chopping her up, not because it's so ghoulish but because it's so arduous..
Another possibility is that he had the apartment rigged up in a certain way to either scare or or film her death or dismemberment- he wanted fame nad he wanted it badly...
he could have done all he described in the cornfields and there would have been no trace of her in his apartment at all when they came looking, even though he was not expecting them.

He opened his *advertiser censored*-file at around 9 that night, the night he took her... I wonder whether it was to remove something he had taped directly into the file as opposed to seeking further sexual stimulation?
The Prosecution certainly know an awful lot more than they're saying.
Michelle's entire interviews with them, for example.
The redacted texts and messages from her...
His entire web history is missing, we just got an ultra streamlined case presentation.

Maybe we have to think of bc like animal. Bring home a catch to the family...like Michelle.

 

[kittythehare]

The family will also attend a private ceremony afterward at the memorial garden created for Ms. Zhang last year on Goodwin Avenue in Urbana.

Friends from the Amish community built a box to hold some of Ms. Zhang’s personal possessions, which the family will bury in lieu of her remains, which have not been found, Moore said.


“My guess is it’s designed to emotionally help them make some sort of progress toward closure,” Moore said. “I’ve been doing this long enough to know that helping people do something tangible is very important in achieving closure.”
Service for Yingying Zhang rescheduled for Friday

 

[kittythehare]

Interview with Steve Beckett at end of this link too (podcast)
Service for Yingying Zhang rescheduled for Friday
Also states presser to go ahead with Beckett at 10am Wednesday

 

[Webthrush]

Interview with Steve Beckett at end of this link too (podcast)
Service for Yingying Zhang rescheduled for Friday
Also states presser to go ahead with Beckett at 10am Wednesday

Good, it sounds like just maybe we'll get some more details on the landfill situation tomorrow morning.
Do any of the local sleuthers here plan to attend the Fri. memorial? -- I'm sure we'd all like to hear from you firsthand (no doubt it will be covered well in the press or even filmed for the Web, but first-hand accounts would still be appreciated).

 

[lynneboh]

We really don’t know how outdoorsy BC was (he grew up in a very outdoorsy area of Wisconsin) or what recreational areas he & MZ may have occasionally explored, especially prior to his downward spiral. And while we enjoy painting him as an idiot, he got into one of the best physics programs in the country — he had a logical, methodological, step-by-step mind, and having studied other serial killers no doubt wanted to commit a perfect crime (and but for one street camera may have gotten away with it). Nor do I believe (JMO) that he disposed of the remains anywhere near his apt. but drove them to an outlying site or dumpster (that, if found, wouldn’t be associated with his apt. complex). I can't even recall another case where an abductor brings a victim back in broad daylight to a large-scale apt. complex?

intelligence - the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills

While BC's intelligence may arise from being book smart that doesn't necessarily mean that he has street smarts or common sense. After all he didn't take into account that he drove a rare car and was doing his kidnapping deed in a college town loaded with cameras.

My brother has a genius IQ but he can't wipe his *** with both hands and has difficulty balancing his check book. Oh, by the way, he has civil engineering degrees from UIUC.

 

[dm92]

Good, it sounds like just maybe we'll get some more details on the landfill situation tomorrow morning.
Do any of the local sleuthers here plan to attend the Fri. memorial? -- I'm sure we'd all like to hear from you firsthand (no doubt it will be covered well in the press or even filmed for the Web, but first-hand accounts would still be appreciated).

Unfortunately, I will be busy with work :-(

 

[dm92]

Here is the News-Gazette article on the rescheduled memorial service....

Service for Yingying Zhang rescheduled for Friday

The family will also attend a private ceremony afterward at the memorial garden created for Ms. Zhang last year on Goodwin Avenue in Urbana.

Friends from the Amish community built a box to hold some of Ms. Zhang’s personal possessions, which the family will bury in lieu of her remains, which have not been found, Moore said.

NOTE: the podcast linked at the bottom of the page is an old one from the spring, before the trial was delayed to June 3rd. It is not the podcast from this morning (Beckett normally appears on a morning radio show every Tuesday to discuss local events).

 

[dm92]

Perhaps he didn't go anywhere and that's why he is not on cameras anywhere. The dumpsters didn't have cameras till after the event someone said on here Maybe he used all the fuel driving around trying to get his containers and plastic bags and attempting to get other victims before he tried on the one we know about and ultimately poor Ying Ying. Maybe there were others who didn't even report him? The police didn't do much about the one report IIRC so maybe other reports were lost even.

The videos they have of him are of him driving around campus during the early morning, and during the afternoon. I have no doubt that he was also driving all over the Champaign-Urbana area looking for a woman to pick up, and I'm sure he probably would have taken a girl in her teens -even if she was under 18. I don't think he was going to be overly picky. He just needed someone relatively small. It would not surprise me in the least bit if he attempted to pick others up off-campus, and they never reported it.

I think he was probably getting a little frustrated and desperate, and that made him gamble in trying to pick up Yingying. The stretch of street where he picked her up is right across from a bus stop kiosk and a massive parking garage. The security cameras are easily visible on both structures. That road would be one he would travel on frequently going to and from Loomis Lab -the building where he was based. Surely he would have noticed those cameras before over the previous few years he had been at the University.

He was working on a schedule. He knew when Michelle was coming back, and knew he had to have sufficient time left to clean everything up properly so she would not suspect anything. I think he saw Yingying miss her bus, saw how small/thin she was , and thought she would be a perfect target. Add to this another factor: She probably looked like a new arrival. Every year in the spring and summer, you can see new foreign students walking around, and they aren't that difficult to pick out. He probably figured she was a new arrival - had maybe only been here for a few days to a week or two. As such, she might not know many people, and if she were to disappear? Maybe it would be a few days before someone would notice she was missing -and if she didn't know many people, maybe no one would know where she went that day.

He was right about the new arrival -but he was off by a few weeks and it made a difference. She was working with several people and they knew where she was going and what she was doing.

 

[altojack]

I'm thinking that as soon as Michelle left bc was out driving, hunting if you like. He must have had an idea of time needed to carry out his deeds at home once he had caught his prey. How many tries did he have that morning? One that we know of. So as soon as he picked up YY the clock was ticking.

Did he cut her up into pieces? Did he have time? I don't think he did have time because of the need for disposal and clean up.

Maybe this Service will help YYs family come to terms with the fact that it's unlikely her remains will be found.

 

[dm92]

I'm thinking that as soon as Michelle left bc was out driving, hunting if you like. He must have had an idea of time needed to carry out his deeds at home once he had caught his prey. How many tries did he have that morning? One that we know of. So as soon as he picked up YY the clock was ticking.

Did he cut her up into pieces? Did he have time? I don't think he did have time because of the need for disposal and clean up.

Maybe this Service will help YYs family come to terms with the fact that it's unlikely her remains will be found.

I hope there is a chance that remains will still be found. Hopefully the press conference tomorrow will give us an idea of just what they were told, who exactly it came from, and if there will be any searching for her remains.

I need to read the article on human decomposition that he downloaded. My guess is that he was looking for ways to **advertiser censored** decomposition for a period of time, so that odor of decomposition would be minimized, and thus no attention would be drawn to a dumpster that had her remains in it before a garbage truck could pick them up for disposal.

 

[altojack]

dm92, Yes, I'm too am hoping that something can be found but as soon as I see the word 'landfill', my heart sinks and I start the hope fades somewhat.

Good luck in reading that document, he must have had a cupboard full of items, all ready there and waiting to be used.

 

[Raptors001]

What a crazy case. Almost as crazy as Karla homolka and Paul Bernardo.

 

[dm92]

dm92, Yes, I'm too am hoping that something can be found but as soon as I see the word 'landfill', my heart sinks and I start the hope fades somewhat.

Good luck in reading that document, he must have had a cupboard full of items, all ready there and waiting to be used.

I know they found and empty box of baking soda in his trash, but I don't think one box of that would be enough to absorb odors from an entire body that would be in a hot dumpster for potentially up to 60 hours