Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #5 *Arrest*

[kassellessak]

Very nice analysis for the surveillance video. I also watched the video many times, but could not find more useful information. It's possible that YY showed the map using her cellphone before she got into the car. But it's really weird that BC moved the car so quickly, within 4-5 seconds after YY closed the door. This time period is even too short for YY to fasten the seat belt. Why did BC decide to move so quickly? What happened within this 4-5 seconds? Did he subdue her using a stun gun right after she closed the door?

 

[Linfone]

Very nice analysis for the surveillance video. I also watched the video many times, but could not find more useful information. It's possible that YY showed the map using her cellphone before she got into the car. But it's really weird that BC moved the car so quickly, within 4-5 seconds after YY closed the door. This time period is even too short for YY to fasten the seat belt. Why did BC decide to move so quickly? What happened within this 4-5 seconds? Did he subdue her using a stun gun right after she closed the door?

Is there evidence he had a stun gun?

 

[kassellessak]

Hope LE knows the answer and collects more evidences from the different camera, which is closer to the scene.

Also, YY immediately steps to the car as soon as it stops. I think this is because BC shouted (or beeped) from the car before it stops to attract her attention.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

5) The last image before he moves out of frame looks to me like just a bad quality image. In isolation, it looks like a giant head looking straight out the window.

I was also trying to make it out. It seems to me at that last moment on camera his head was behind the vertical bar that separates the front-side and rear-side windows. The big black seems to be the back of YY's seat?

But it's really weird that BC moved the car so quickly, within 4-5 seconds after YY closed the door. This time period is even too short for YY to fasten the seat belt. Why did BC decide to move so quickly?

My take is that because all he wanted was to lure someone into his car, and he didn't want to give any extra time that could make it possible for the victim to get off the car, for whatever reason. He wants to lock them in the car and get on the road so everything would be under his control, the victim would be helpless, wherever the car was going.

 

[human]

It's possible but I doubt it. Having lived here a loooong time, I wouldn't be surprised if there were laws against importing another's garbage. When the landfill in Champaign closed many years ago, Danville was more than willing to accept it. From Champaign, it looks like you would have to tack on another 20 miles to find the closest one in Indiana. Probably not cost effective.

Garbage is big business so it may be transported far away. Garbage cannot be prohibted from moving around. Interstate commerce laws

 

[Elainera]

Very nice analysis for the surveillance video. I also watched the video many times, but could not find more useful information. It's possible that YY showed the map using her cellphone before she got into the car. But it's really weird that BC moved the car so quickly, within 4-5 seconds after YY closed the door. This time period is even too short for YY to fasten the seat belt. Why did BC decide to move so quickly? What happened within this 4-5 seconds? Did he subdue her using a stun gun right after she closed the door?

bbm - She could have fastened her seat belt first, then closed the door.

Is there evidence he had a stun gun?

No.

 

[SteveP]

MOO

Let's say bc's roommate planned a weekend trip for themselves for the weekend of June 9 a few months ago (during the time of his kidnapping views on Fetlife). Then on Friday june 9th with roommate gone BC starts trolling for his victim, knowing he has until the end of the weekend when roommate comes back. He starts at 9-10 am in a quiet residential neighborhood by impersonating a police officer near campus and attempting to lure a young girl, unsuccessfully. Maybe makes more attempts that are unreported or maybe just drives around frustrated. Then, 4-5 hours later he spots YZ By this point he is running out of time in his mind and is desperate. He gets her in his car. I believe a gun or knife was likely employed as a threat once she caught on he wasn't heading to one north. He uses this weapon to quickly get her into his empty apt where he quickly binds her and assaults her. Then, Saturday, he kills her, dismembers her in his bathtub, and brings her pieces to his car. He drives out of town on one of the many many many lonely country roads and drives around again for 5-6 hours, just like Friday, and disposes of her piece by piece in fields, drainage ditches and ponds where the elements and animals do the rest. Sunday, he cleans his car for fingerprints and hair and his bathroom top to bottom with bleach. June 15 FBI luminal his bathtub and find evidence of possible blood spatter Effected by bleach so untestable for her DNA and not enough blood left to show a large amount. They suspect she's dead due to their suspicions about the luminal test and possibly video evidence of him gassing up or heading out of town on a main road Sunday. They watch him hoping for a slip up, revisiting one of the dump sites, bragging about his crime, until the vigil when they must act to protect the public and it becomes clear he is not going to revisit any scene after 2 weeks. This is just a theory I've been cooking up based on my overactive imagination and years of watching crime tv. Totally just my opinion of course.

BBM...No one, except probably BC, knows exactly what happened, and your theory is not far-fetched, especially considering the number of completely crazy turns we have seen so far. I do think the dismemberment and scattering of body parts over a large area is unlikely though. Every minute that any part of YingYing's body is in his car is one more minute that BC is in danger of being caught with it. My theories are certainly no better than anyone else's, but I really feel like he most likely just took her somewhere, relatively closeby, and dumped her, intact except for whatever injury or injuries killed her. And I know several people here think LE has perhaps already recovered her remains, but I just don't see it as being likely. While this has not been as big a case nationally as I think it probably should be, I am sure it is huge news locally, and I would guess that several local and area print and tv reporters are shadowing LE as much as possible. They knew and reported that BC's apartment was being searched before LE was probably ready to release that info, and I know in most every case I have followed, whenever a search has yielded remains that are thought perhaps to be those of the victim, news crews have been all over it immediately. I honestly just don't see LE being able to keep it from reporters if YingYing's remains had been found, and again, I don't believe any news team would sit on that news if they had it. Quite the contrary, I see them rushing to be the first to scoop the story. JMO

 

[Yellow]

The complaint was written by Anthony Manganaro, FBI special agent. Also, It was filed in the Central District of Illinois. I highly recommend you actually read the complaint which has been posted multiple times as you are stating wrong information repeatedly in this thread and the last. It's very short and will take only a few minutes.

My apologies on the complaint- I read the complaint very close back when it was posted 2 weeks ago and it is really an affidavit, it's not a regular complaint like you see in a civil case which is what I thought it was initially when it was kept being referred to as a complaint. Moreover, it was signed by the FBI agent-we don't know who wrote it or if it was written in part from a template; it does not say it was written by him (court case opinions for instance are signed by the judges, but everyone knows that law clerks often write the first draft or often the whole thing, I would defer to anyone who knows how things work in IL on how it works in terms of drafting there or if FBI agents working high profile criminal cases have the time to write affidavits from scratch or rely on a template written by lawyers). I would suspect they use a template and add in their own facts about interstate commerce. My experience with experts and whatnot is that often legal issues are not the purview of FBI agents - I don't know whether this FBI agent is a lawyer - but oftentimes those legal type issues are handled by the lawyers in the US Attorneys Office not the FBI agent because if they are not a lawyer they would not know the latest constitutional law. And I got the court wrong- I did not realize Urbana would be that central to be in Central District not Southern. I don't believe the substance of what I wrote is wrong, though, if you know and read the caselaw on the commerce clause, or even if you read what a lay person could find on the internet.

Can anyone name any case where the federal court got jxn in a kidnapping case and kept it? I teach constitutional law and am a lawyer so my reading of the caselaw and law review article fails to yield any caselaw where the feds took control and kept it in a case like this. The only cases where they kept it as far as I know are ones where the body shows up in a different state or on federal property or something like murder for hire. Indeed, how is this case different from that of Nicole Lovell, the little girl that was murdered by the VA Tech students allegedly? There she was enticed on the internet, her body was found in a different state yet that trial is in VA state court. The grounds for federal jxn are even stronger there since you have a very strong interstate connection. The only difference here is that the victim is a foreign national but if you read the kidnapping law that does not matter. Why treat one case different from another especially given that the purpose of federal jxn is uniformity?

There are indeed attempts to assert jxn in cases like this based on the enticement theory. The law is fairly new though so I don't think it's a settled legal question because all appeals on those issues are not settled yet. Moreover, the cases where I have seen them trying to stretch it are clearly enticement cases like the Nicole Lovell case where the perp uses the internet to entice. I could understanding jxn being granted there and in fact I would be interested to know why that case isn't in federal court and this one is, other than they know this case is only temporarily in federal court or they got good evidence of interstate conduct like they suspect he crossed state lines to dispose of the body or evidence.

Many of you follow more cases than me - any cases where you see a kidnapping in federal court where there is no clear interstate connection other than possibly using the internet and buying a car? Maybe they have a stronger interstate connection that they don't want to tip their hand in but the facts in the complaint would almost give the feds jxn over any kidnapping case where someone buys a car or uses the Internet. they simply do not have the resources to prosecute all those cases nor do we routinely see cases like this in federal court.

I actually find it an extremely interesting constitutional law question which I may write about because to have jxn here - especially if you are asserting jxn to get around the fact that IL is not a death state- is a very interesting constitutional question and one I think would get alot of publicity and attention from legal academia and the higher courts, especially if he gets the death penalty by the federal courts taking jxn in an abduction case in a state that does not have the death penalty.

 

[Yellow]

I have another thought but don't know if it's at all realistic. Our member Yellow and others with more understanding of legal procedures and jurisdictions etc have explained that right now this is a federal case because of the kidnapping charge, and if a murder charge was added it might be bumped back to state level. Did I get this correct?

Now my thought was , maybe FBI and LE don't hurry to find the body right now because they want to keep this case in federal court for as long as possible to be able to dangle the possibility of a death penalty above BC's head.

Possible?

Yes, I wrote about this before. A defendant is entitled to a "speedy trial" which can be interpreted quite broadly since many criminal trials take a long time. But I think the clock begins to run once you charge, so if they don't have the body, and they have him in custody, what reason do they have for rushing? It could take months to find the body. Moreover, from an evidentiary perspective, the prosecutor wants as much time to gather evidence especially if there is alot to go through. I am not sure exactly of IL law but there are deadlines, etc. for prosecutors to follow with respect to disclosure of exculpatory evidence. Why start that clock now?

It can technically stay in federal court with a murder, because a kidnapping resulting in death is a death penalty case. Both jxn (state and federal) can both have jxn and double jeopardy does not apply. I just cannot recall one case where a case like this - a kidnapping and murder scenario which unfortunately is all too common in this country - was tried in federal court unless there is a clear interstate connection. The most visible one I found was the Dru case from MN where the girl was kidnapped in ND yet her body was found in MN and the perp is now on federal death row but there the interstate connection is clear. All the other cases where you have a kidnapping and murder are all in state court as far as I know. I don't really know why this case would be different under the law.

 

[Millhouse]

Hope LE knows the answer and collects more evidences from the different camera, which is closer to the scene.

Also, YY immediately steps to the car as soon as it stops. I think this is because BC shouted (or beeped) from the car before it stops to attract her attention.

I just realized that if he was circling the area, he might have actually seen her miss the bus and realized she might be more receptive to getting in his car. Maybe he used her missing the bus as a way to shout or wave or otherwise get her attention.

Source that she missed a bus: http://www.news-gazette.com/news/lo...-blame-bus-driver-who-didnt-stop-scholar.html

 

[SteveP]

Has anyone entertained the idea that BC may have already had a willing submissive "play partner", for lack of a better term, and it may have been someone we can't yet discuss, and this person may have known about YingYing from the beginning, though she had no part in the abduction (maybe YingYing was brought to be a "play partner" for both of them), and may have gone to LE early on with what she knew, and then she became LE's ears, and while acting in that role, asked something or acted in a way that caused that person to be threatened?

 

[Tinypeeps]

Are searches done only when there is a chance someone is still alive? I've read many posts here justifying the lack of organized searches based on a "belief" by LE that Yingying is no longer alive (a belief not even strong enough to charge B.C with murder at this time). I may be wrong but it seems to me searches are done to make a case stronger against the perp and to give family closure. As I said before, I am sure the family would appreciate having a hair strand back if that is all that is left of her. Am I way off here? What would a "belief" have to do with halting searches?

They have hard evidence she is dead, I believe. They cannot possibly search the entirety of Illinois or even the entire county without any idea at all of where she might be. Her body may not be recoverable without some sort of clue. For example in the Laci Peterson case, her body was ultimately washed ashore from San Francisco Bay, over 100 miles from her home in Modesto, months after her death. LE had previously searched the Bay as it happened, without finding her, but only because they had evidence that her husband had been there the day she disappeared. Without the tidal currents that finally washed her ashore, her remains would never have been found, even.though LE had a strong belief that she had been dumped there. Same in this case: YY'S body could be anywhere within hundreds of miles of Champaign. They need to develop their evidence of just where BC was that day, night, and the next day to narrow the search focus. 2. YY may literally not be recoverable (not going to get graphic about it). 3. If LE gets irrefutable evidence (or so overwhelmingly strong that he believes a jury will hang him), hat BC murdered her, he will confess and give up the location in a plea deal. For all we know those talks are already taking place. 3. It is quite possible that they have already traced his whereabouts in that time period, have already formed a theory of her whereabouts, and are already searching there without public knowledge.

One thing I know is that LE would never have announced she was 'presumed dead," if they didnt know for absolute sure she was. Never. Also, that recovering her body will be top.priority once they get a good idea where to look.

 

[Webthrush]

Did some checking and found there are 8 active landfills in the “east central Illinois” region closest to Champaign (there are another 4 in the “west central Illinois” area and of course still more in north & southern Illinois, not to mention Indiana or Wisconsin). That’s quite a few landfills.
I believe the idea of dumpster-disposal of the body makes so much sense and ties together some loose ends:


1) It makes disposal by BC relatively easy and quick; and if he did it on a Sunday or late Sat. night at a dumpster away from his apts., with the body in some sort of duffle-bag, he would likely go unseen.
2) Surely the informant who BC blabbed to, asked, “…and what did you do with the body?” and his possible response, “thrown in a dumpster, by now she’s buried under 3 tons of garbage in a landfill somewhere,” and he himself honestly wouldn’t know where she ended up.
3) Without knowing which dumpster was used, police don’t know which landfill the body ended up in — they may feel certain she’s dead, but know there is no need to call out the community to search fields, woods, lake areas, etc.; and it could take them a long time to adequately search the possibilities (she could indeed be under tons of garbage).

 

[Satchie]

Thanks so much for the video analysis, so odd that in your video 4), Yingying isn't visible at all. Btw, the gif in point 7) is the same as in 4), did you mean to post a different link.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[Yellow]

Has anyone entertained the idea that BC may have already had a willing submissive "play partner", for lack of a better term, and it may have been someone we can't yet discuss, and this person may have known about YingYing from the beginning, (maybe YingYing was brought to be a "play partner" for both of them), and may have gone to LE early on with what she knew, and then she became LE's ears?

I have always struggled with whether this was a crime of opportunity or whether he planned to get a girl that day and YY happened to be that girl. I think he maybe saw her miss the bus and saw her confused or worried and she looked like a good victim. Whether another person is involved I think is doubtful, from what we know. I don't know much about that community but it seems like you can get a fair share of partners who want to do that with you and I could see some women or man perhaps willingly engaging in such activity. Why go to an innocent third party?

But it's possible and in fact this is more like a conspiracy case with a third person that may be the interstate conduct that they are relying on, and they don't want to tip their hand to him that that person turned him in. That theory makes sense with respect to the federal issue. Moreover, even though it's rare for another party to be involved in a case like this, it's not unheard of (i.e.., the Nicole Lovell case for instance involved both a man and woman, Diane Zomora, etc.).

 

[Tinypeeps]

Has anyone entertained the idea that BC may have already had a willing submissive "play partner", for lack of a better term, and it may have been someone we can't yet discuss, and this person may have known about YingYing from the beginning, though she had no part in the abduction (maybe YingYing was brought to be a "play partner" for both of them), and may have gone to LE early on with what she knew, and then she became LE's ears, and while acting in that role, asked something or acted in a way that caused them to be threatened?

I think something like that would be possible, except that that would make two ppl who knew the truth: (the person he told at the march [I think that's been established?], whom he wouldnt have had to tell if she had been there herself, and the theoretical 3rd "playmate".) I would think he would want his actions known to as few ppl as possible, but he's obvi an idiot, so who knows?

 

[Tinypeeps]

I have always struggled with whether this was a crime of opportunity or whether he planned to get a girl that day and YY happened to be that girl. I think he maybe saw her miss the bus and saw her confused or worried and she looked like a good victim. Whether another person is involved I think is doubtful, from what we know. I don't know much about that community but it seems like you can get a fair share of partners who want to do that with you and I could see some women or man perhaps willingly engaging in such activity. Why go to an innocent third party?

But it's possible and in fact this is more like a conspiracy case with a third person that may be the interstate conduct that they are relying on, and they don't want to tip their hand to him that that person turned him in. That theory makes sense with respect to the federal issue. Moreover, even though it's rare for another party to be involved in a case like this, it's not unheard of (i.e.., the Nicole Lovell case for instance involved both a man and woman, Diane Zomora, etc.).

*******
I think he maybe saw her miss the bus and saw her confused or worried..
********

That is a great thought. Wasn't it only like 2 -3 minutes after she missed the bus that th3 camera picked up his car? That's what I seem to recall? If he did see that, it would make a ton of sense.

 

[SteveP]

I think something like that would be possible, except that that would make two ppl who knew the truth: (the person he told at the march [I think that's been established?], whom he wouldnt have had to tell if she had been there herself, and the theoretical 3rd "playmate".) I would think he would want his actions known to as few ppl as possible, but he's obvi an idiot, so who knows?

They could be one and the same person. Maybe she was not at the apartment when BC brought YY home, or maybe she was, and BC was just reliving the story at the vigil.

 

[Yellow]

Thank you! And yes, it could stay in federal court. Will it? I have no idea. The defense would need a reason to get it removed from federal court to state court. I know defense counsel already cited the distance from Champaign-Urbana to where BC is being held as a possible barrier for their ability and legal right to adequately represent BC, but I do not see a court granting a motion to remove the case from federal to state court because of an hour drive. I would think that there would need to be something more there.

Both feds and state could both have jxn here. What I suspect defense will do is file a motion to dismiss based on the lack of jurisdiction because there's no involvement of interstate commerce. They may wait to do it however, because right now there's a rebuttable presumption that kidnapping is out of state if more than 24 hours elapsed. So they may have a hard time rebutting that presumption and say client is innocent plus they might want to argue that some random person kidnapped her and took her out of state or whatever. Many lawyers actually prefer being in federal court too.

But once facts are out and if her body is found in state and the allegations entirely consist of activity in state, they could file a motion to dismiss based on the lack of interstate contacts. I think this would be a strong argument, especially if the only reason this case is being treated differently is because of federal death penalty. The state would then file their own complaint and he would be tried there. If activity is wholly intrastate, the feds may just agree not to prosecute at this time because they will want to preserve trying him at a later date if he should get acquitted in state court. Why would the feds want to get involved in a lengthy constitutional challenge on jxn when he can be put away by state court without those issues? In most cases they wouldn't - they would just give it back to the state. The main reason would be to give him the death penalty which he would not be able to get in state court. Holding the death penalty over him is the best leverage they have at this point to find out where the body is so why not use it? Plus, the optics of this case may be somewhat unique in that China may be pushing for death so they have incentive to keep it in federal court for now.

There may also be other reason that defense could say that the case should go back to state court, but I don't know what those would be. Most people want to remove from state to federal court in civil cases, not the other way around. Moreover, since both state and federal can charge it's not like the defense can say "hey feds, you can't charge him." They can charge him with federal kidnapping, defense could only argue 1) federal kidnapping does not apply here because no interstate conduct nor does the crime fit within any of the other fact scenarios under the federal kidnapping act; or 2) for convenience, etc. try him in state court first, then federal (that is, state a preference for trying him in state court first). State is being smart here because right now his only option is number 1 since the state has not charged him yet. Moreover, the feds would be very reluctant to treat this case differently than other cases- the whole purpose of federal involvement is national uniformity - if the state charges, their normal approach would be to defer, so if they didn't it makes it look like they are not following their own policy. They must be coordinating with the state because they get around this dilemma by the state withholding charges (though at this point, I don't know what the state could charge him with - I assume there is an IL kidnapping law, but that's probably all they can charge him with at this point).

 

[crhedBngr]

*******
I think he maybe saw her miss the bus and saw her confused or worried..
********

That is a great thought. Wasn't it only like 2 -3 minutes after she missed the bus that th3 camera picked up his car? That's what I seem to recall? If he did see that, it would make a ton of sense.

RBBM

Yes, that makes sense. Also, IIRC, YYZ was indeed cautious about getting into a stranger's vehicle. BC may have told her that he "recognized" her from a certain class or lab ("remember that class? I think you sat in the front; I was sitting several rows back from you").

How many people remember who took what class with them in college? I certainly don't, and I suspect most others don't, either, unless they were friends.

Also, it's possible he could have mentioned mutual acquaintances to her. He may have seen her walking, and asked one of his friends who she was, finding her attractive. (Who wouldn't? She is a beautiful young woman.) He may have known her name. Especially if he was looking for potential victims.

I just can't imagine YYZ would get into a car with a complete stranger.

We just don't know.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

ETA: Praying every day they find her.