Ill. students lose diplomas over cheers

[Paladin]

--agree that people should volunteer their time--I was a volunteer driver for awhile, I drove cancer patients to their treatments--but in this case I think the students are still being punished unfairly, air horns or not

I'm actually torn on this issue.

Yes, I think it's a bit unfair to punish the students for the actions of others, but how else are you going prevent this type of thing? I've been to many graduations and it's the one thing that bothers me most at this type of event. It's really rude and uncalled for.

You can threaten the members of the audience that they will be removed if they cause a ruckus, but then they would need to hire security/ushers. Even then, who is to say that when confronted by an usher they will cooperate and leave quietly? Then you have an entirely new, and larger issue on your hands, and this has the potential to disrupt the ceremony even further.

It's really sad that people can't listen to instructions these days.

 

[Karanjeff]

This article just rubs me the wrong way. Turn up the mike and make a quick comment to all those attending about keeping it short and sweet before the ceremony. When my mom graduated from college I was in high school and they said the same thing please keep quiet til the end. Well let me tell you peeps that was MY MOM doing the coolest thing in the world possible. After all those years of catering to everyone else she finally did something for herself and was so excited. I had to stand up and scream "Way to go Mom! whoohoo" clapped and sat down. Something inside of me just couldn't stay contained.
At my high school graduation my parents and grandparents clapped and maybe said a yahoo there but when I heard some of the other kid's families I wish my family was as loud and cheerful.
Every graduation we always had a couple of state troopers in the back I guess ready just in case a situation arose.
But hey that's just my opinion.

 

[MSM]

...the hypothetical where some Snidley Whiplash launches an air horn while twirling his moustache isn't what we're talking about here.

That's a hilarious image!

 

[kgeaux]

If the parents signed the contract, then why did they yell?

Dont sign the contract if you disagree.

I refuse to sign the drug testing paper my sons High School wants all the students to sign and turn in, because he is being sent to school to be educated, NOT treated like an untrustable junkie. Just because the school sends this crap home does not mean you become a sheeple and just blindly sign.

I foresee our school trying the graduation contract thing, they are all about penalizing(as in penal colonizing) the students.

Besides, our recent graduation, ANYONE can show up, and the graduate may well have had her/his family sign a contract, but the OTHERS who showed up dont have to sign or abide by squat, and to penalize the child for the actions of the audience is going too far.

No wonder so many kids hate school.

The sticking point about the contract is that only the parents and students signed, not Uncle Johnny, not dear boyfriend Zack, and not sisters and brothers, and exactly the situation you've described could occur. Is it the student's fault if her Uncle Johnny lets out a yell? Maybe she told him not to yell, but excitement took over.

There is also the possibility that lil Sally's family is pizzed at Kathy because she won the coveted scholorship---and if Sally's family is vindictive, they just might cheer for Kathy, just to be mean.

Bottom line for me, Kathy should not have to do community service to get her diploma. She earned it, and Kathy did everything the school system required her to do, right down to signing the contract and not yelling her own head off.....I do NOT think enforced community service is a "good deal" for a student who has done absolutely nothing wrong.

I've quoted your post because I often do just as you do, and not agree to things that the school pushes me to agree to----not out of orneriness but out of a feeling that the school system is pushing to take over certain aspects of MY JOB raising my kiddo.

--agree that people should volunteer their time--I was a volunteer driver for awhile, I drove cancer patients to their treatments--but in this case I think the students are still being punished unfairly, air horns or not

You've stated it perfectly, Peter. I couldn't agree more.

 

[JBean]

I would GUESS that those that signed the contract were responsible for the guests that they bring. Simple enough for the signers to make sure whomever they brought as a guest was aware of the rules.
I am surprised that this is not just a no brainer. Follow the rules, be respectable or don't come. It is just so common sensical to me. We follow these rules in Church, in school, in the workplace,in the airport, at a restaurant, everywhere, everday. This is the most basic of social skills and I cannot for the life of me understand what the resistance is.
Being repsctful of others and knowing when yelling is ok and not ok is just another thing my mom taught me along with potty training.

 

[gman20001969]

My stepdaughter graduated from Hoover High School in Alabama. They were basically threatened that if anyone cheered for them they would not get their diploma. She said that they were told more than once in a very threatening fashion. I thought that this was absolutely ridiculous. It is supposed to be a time of joy as it is a big accomplishment for both the child and their parents/friends!

Of everything that the schools should be doing, this is not one, IMO.

P.S. I cheered and felt like an idiot afterwards. :blushing:

LOL, a nice way of showing a young person that we adults can be the ones being childish...

They asked everyone not to whoop and holler at my niece's ceremony. you can't tell our clan of folks that we can't do something. We cheered something fierce when her name was called.

 

[JBean]

LOL, a nice way of showing a young person that we adults can be the ones being childish...

They asked everyone not to whoop and holler at my niece's ceremony. you can't tell our clan of folks that we can't do something. We cheered something fierce when her name was called.

would you have done it if they told you your niece would not get her diploma if you cheered excessively and that she would be required to do community service if your clan didn't follow the rules?

 

[pedinurse]

I just graduated from law school. It's a HUGE deal - we have these big gowns, and a hood, and it's a formal occasion. Some people cheered and such, as was allowed, but people could behave themselves.

Since when did the graduation ceremony itself become a huge party and since when did people lose the ability to behave themselves?? However, since when did administration decide to take on these rules and use this approach?

I remember graduating high school we were sternly ordered not to bring beach balls, noisemakers, etc. Ourselves - not the family. There were consequences, but I don't remember them.

I just don't understand, though, why administration wouldn't make an announcement at the beginning explaining about the solemn occasion, and asking that people treat it as such. Only clapping and brief cheering. Then, when people ignore it, make another announcement. Stop the ceremony until people calm down. And probably these schools have tried that, but it hasn't worked - it just seems that another approach would be better.

Most ceremonies I have gone to the graduates are seated separately from the families. Sure, it would look bad to have them throwing beach balls,ect in thier section. but you can't control visitors, friends, or just people from the community who go to the ceremony.

 

[kgeaux]

I would GUESS that those that signed the contract were responsible for the guests that they bring. Simple enough for the signers to make sure whomever they brought as a guest was aware of the rules.
I am surprised that this is not just a no brainer. Follow the rules, be respectable or don't come. It is just so common sensical to me. We follow these rules in Church, in school, in the workplace,in the airport, at a restaurant, everywhere, everday. This is the most basic of social skills and I cannot for the life of me understand what the resistance is.
Being repsctful of others and knowing when yelling is ok and not ok is just another thing my mom taught me along with potty training.

It IS a no-brainer if everyone would just listen! But obviously, you can TELL your guests the rule, but you CAN'T make them follow it. At that point, who should be punished?

I just don't think it should be the student, unless they themselves did something to disrupt the graduation.

 

[JBean]

It IS a no-brainer if everyone would just listen! But obviously, you can TELL your guests the rule, but you CAN'T make them follow it. At that point, who should be punished?

I just don't think it should be the student, unless they themselves did something to disrupt the graduation.

Hi Kgeaux. I completely disagree. I think the families did not take the contract seriously and did not warn their guests accordingly. I think 1000's of grad ceremonies go off every year following the rules.
I think defiant behavior like shouting out when asked not to, is not something these family's are just finding out about their guests. I think most know well in advance who is to be trusted and who will not abide by the rules. I know exactly who i can and can't count on..don;t you? I mean this is theoretically close friends and family.
Sorry, I don't think for one minute that I cannot control my guests to behave.If I truly believe they will do as they choose, not a chance in heck I would invite them.
I bet if we were to poll the offenders in this case, they would say,
1. I had no idea, the parents didn't tell me
2. We didn't believe that the family members were serious
3. We didn't think in a million years that the diplomas would be withheld.
I would also guess that those very same offenders wil be very quiet next year since they are crystal clear on what is at stake.
The whole reason they punish the grad is so the people in the stand will behave! If they punished the offender, the offender may think it is worth it and holler out because they take the fall. This is a very clever and smart way to do it on the part of the school. Control behavior by threatening punshment to an innocent party.
It is one of the oldest and most effective ways to get desired behavior in the book.
These people just doubted it had any teeth and they found out they are wrong. I really hope the school doesn't cave in and wimp out on this. I hope they have some backbone.

 

[sherri79]

ok my great grandmother had 16 kids. if this family claps for 30 seconds they are too loud. my grand mother had 4 kids. if this family claps for 30 seconds they would not be punished from the way i read the article. seems a little arbitrary

 

[JBean]

ok my great grandmother had 16 kids. if this family claps for 30 seconds they are too loud. my grand mother had 4 kids. if this family claps for 30 seconds they would not be punished from the way i read the article. seems a little arbitrary

Well I am not sure what you mean Sherri.
But, if each family claps for 30 seconds and there are 3600 seconds in an hour, that would be 120 students per hour and that is just cheering time..not name announcement or presentations. My kids had 1000 or so students in their class.So the ceremony would have been over 8 hours long, just for cheering alone. Even if the school had a class half that size, 30 seconds of cheerig per student would be over a 4 hour ceremony. I loved my kids but I don't think I could make it lol.
This rule is sounding better and better.

 

[sherri79]

Well I am not sure what you mean Sherri.
But, if each family claps for 30 seconds and there are 3600 seconds in an hour, that would be 120 students per hour and that is just cheering time..not name announcement or presentations. My kids had 1000 or so students in their class.So the ceremony would have been over 8 hours long, just for cheering alone. Even if the school had a class half that size, 30 seconds of cheerig per student would be over a 4 hour ceremony. I loved my kids but I don't think I could make it lol.
This rule is sounding better and better.

well my point is they did not punish every kid who had family members clap. they only punished those that they felt were louder than average.

In Galesburg, the issue has taken on added controversy with accusations that the students were targeted because of their race: four are black and one is Hispanic. Parents say cheers also erupted for white students, and none of them was denied a diploma.
Principal Tom Chiles said administrators who monitored the more than 2,000-seat auditorium reported only disruptions they considered "significant," and all turned in the same five names.

if it's ok to clap but only if they feel it is significant will the child be denied a diploma is the rule arbitray? would people from large familys automaticly make more noise than those from small? if the rule is no clapping then it should apply to every1 not just the loudest.

 

[Paladin]

LOL, a nice way of showing a young person that we adults can be the ones being childish...

They asked everyone not to whoop and holler at my niece's ceremony. you can't tell our clan of folks that we can't do something. We cheered something fierce when her name was called.

Your clan is the reason people are asked not to do this at graduation ceremonies. When you cheered something fierce you risked drowning out the next person's name. You would be happy with ruining some other family's evening?

 

[JBean]

well my point is they did not punish every kid who had family members clap. they only punished those that they felt were louder than average.

if it's ok to clap but only if they feel it is significant will the child be denied a diploma is the rule arbitray? would people from large familys automaticly make more noise than those from small? if the rule is no clapping then it should apply to every1 not just the loudest.

I don't think it is really aribitrary as much as it is just common sensical. They punished those that were "louder than average".If the average person knew what was proper decorum, 5 groups were just excessive.
I bet most of us would know what was ok. I also think it was most likely spelled out in the contract. We know it said dignified.
IMO, this just isn't that mysterious. .

 

[sherri79]

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jun07/0,4670,GraduationDecorum,00.html
Ill. Students Awarded Withheld Diplomas

School officials defended the decorum policy, but said the stalemate over the diplomas and the attention it attracted took up valuable time and energy.
"It is time for the good of the community, the school district, the families and the students involved to move on .... I have decided to grant to the students involved their diplomas," Superintendent Gene Denisar said in a written statement.
Denisar cited talks with the Illinois State Board of Education, which has said it cannot support the district's decorum policy because it makes students responsible for behavior they cannot control.
==================
more @ link

 

[JBean]

Too bad they couldn't have backbone and stick with their rule.Hopefully something was learned anyway.Hopefully all are happy now.

 

[close_enough]

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jun07/0,4670,GraduationDecorum,00.html
Ill. Students Awarded Withheld Diplomas

School officials defended the decorum policy, but said the stalemate over the diplomas and the attention it attracted took up valuable time and energy.
"It is time for the good of the community, the school district, the families and the students involved to move on .... I have decided to grant to the students involved their diplomas," Superintendent Gene Denisar said in a written statement.
Denisar cited talks with the Illinois State Board of Education, which has said it cannot support the district's decorum policy because it makes students responsible for behavior they cannot control.==================
more @ link

i knew that if the Board of Education stepped in, there would be NO WAY to keep the diplomas away from those students.....good deal!:clap:

 

[Nova]

Too bad they couldn't have backbone and stick with their rule....

I don't think it was about backbone. I'm sure their lawyers told them there is no precedent for penalizing someone for the actions of others.

That elementary school business of "if one person talks, the whole class will be punished" doesn't fly in the real world (except, as I understand it, in the Army).

 

[JBean]

I don't think it was about backbone. I'm sure their lawyers told them there is no precedent for penalizing someone for the actions of others.

That elementary school business of "if one person talks, the whole class will be punished" doesn't fly in the real world (except, as I understand it, in the Army).

Howdy Nova.
Of course I know you are right, but I hold out hope that people can behave. Because if they do, this rule means nothing.
It's amazing how many baptisms, graduations, church services, confirmations,and meetings I have been to without incident.
I have a feeling our school district would not have backed down. they are known to be pigheaded lol.
I really am more disappointed that these 5 families just couldn't get their chit together for the sake of their grads.
and so it goes.