IMVU and SWs released 2011.01.04

[bellyup]

Right, and I think having to actually type the stuff out in some way makes it more personal don't you? It's not just mind numbing clicking, you are actually having to THINK up your actions.

Surely. But that point is also a stickler for me in regards to this case. The people that are performing the T1/T2 level "fighting and killing" are extremely intelligent and literate people. You have to have a very high aptitude as a writer. The writings are EXTREMELY detailed lengthy and creative (not all are attacks of course - but the format is followed for all activities). It's very much like a dungeons and dragons type of game play for those who are familiar with it. I am amazed at the amount of time and accuracy put into the T1 T2 style role play paragraphs and I have a writing background.

I don't see the case players in Zahra's case being able to perform to the standards of most of the T1/T2 role players in IMVU. The reason I believe this is that I've seen writings from at least two of those accused of playing in IMVU and they just aren't up to par or even remotely close. I have also spoken to several people in IMVU who have indicated that they were not serious roleplayers.

Which means *IF* ... they were "roleplaying" a "chainsaw masacre" it was very amateur in nature. More along the lines of the "Tim" example I posted above.

Not that it's a HUGE importance because even if it were amateur and they did "roleplay" this ..... it could be key information to the case. It may help firm a time line or indicate premeditation.

I just wanted people to know that the IMVU aspect like is NOT nearly as horrific or as a sensational as it's being made out to be IMO. Because virtual worlds are an "unknown" to many it can be quickly blown out of proportion.

In reality it wouldn't be much different than if someone suspected of THIS SAME crime was emailing a bunch of friends detailing what they wanted or were going to do.

 

[bellyup]

The last time someone accessed Aaron's IMVU account was 3 Mar 2010, so unless Aaron has another account, he was not involved in any massacre role playing games on 22 Sept 2010.

From what I know, they all have multiple accounts. It's rare to find someone in IMVU that has been playing for awhile that DOES NOT.

 

[dar107]

"12. On November 3, 2010, a Web Sleuth User with the handle of "NoeticSoul" blogged that she was an IMVU user and that she had a conversation with Adam Baker and/or Elisa Baker regarding their involvement with chain saw massacre role-playing and information that Aaron Young was also involved in this role-playing as well. The date of September 22nd was given regarding their virtual family "doing a murder with chainsaws". NoeticSoul also noted that a user name that needed to be watched was "sweetlilspitfire69" as possibly connected to this case as well. NoeticSoul had advised that an employee of IMVU had confirmed to her that Elisa Baker, Adam Baker, Aaron Young, and Kava Fullman were all active IMVU users and that all accounts except Adam Baker's had been active as of 10/29/2010."

IMVU Warrants
pg 6/6
0104part5

see above noted link

BBM

Can we still view the Virtual World thread? I don't recall that Noetic said she spoke with EB or AB, IIRC she said she spoke with an IMVU member who had contact with them.

 

[tehcloser]

But if they are playing only with a "few" peeps they know, the intelligence level would be the same. I think it's a safe bet that they are not playing with top level players on there.

 

[bellyup]

What would make a person even think to pick up a vertual chainsaw? Im glad I dont understand it.

I almost responded in my IMVU character. ROFL!!!

Personally, I feel no call to any sort of violence or violent games. HOWEVER, I have and will continue to participate in role play type games so I "get" that aspect. Role play games have been popular for a long long time in different formats (some might remember groups of friends getting together to play dungeons and dragons in the 80's, or mid evil/ ren faires which still happen today, civil war re enactments, etc) They are all essentially a form of roleplaying.

I think the recent tendency toward "bloody" role play has been sparked by this generations obsession with the Twilight (and similar) series.

 

[raisincharlie]

From what I know, they all have multiple accounts. It's rare to find someone in IMVU that has been playing for awhile that DOES NOT.

Do you have any information, or seen any information, that identifies:

1. How long AB, EB, AY etal have had accounts on IMVU ?

2. Is this the online site where AB and EB actually met by any chance ?

I don't recall seeing this information but confess, I am not up to snuff on every single detail of this case either. Any ideas ?

 

[bellyup]

From what I know, they all have multiple accounts. It's rare to find someone in IMVU that has been playing for awhile that DOES NOT.

Quoting myself ....
There are also many times an account is used by multiple persons. For example say there was a character Lord Dumbledore that's always been played by the real life person Tom Smith. Lord Dumbledore become a very high rank in a prestigious family. However, Tom Smith is going back to college and will no longer have internet access.

Tom Smith will find someone to play Lord Dumbledore for him either forever, or until he can return and take his place.

There are characters that I know that have been played by more than three real life persons for a multitude of reasons.

 

[bellyup]

Do you have any information, or seen any information, that identifies:

1. How long AB, EB, AY etal have had accounts on IMVU ?

2. Is this the online site where AB and EB actually met by any chance ?

I don't recall seeing this information but confess, I am not up to snuff on every single detail of this case either. Any ideas ?

I do to some extent. I don't think there is any possible way to know for sure how long AB EB or AY have been on IMVU. It's nearly impossible for anyone to know. Even police or IMVU employees would not be able to figure it out.

The police / employees could find out when they first created an account IN THEIR NAME but that doesn't mean they weren't playing under someone elses account prior to that. Which I am actually fairly certain at least one of the people in this case was doing.

And yes, this was reported as the site that AB and EB met on. Which is not uncommon. There are couples that were husband and wife before IMVU and then started playing together. There are couples that met on IMVU. There are A LOT of people moving to be with this one or that one even though they are still married to someone (who also still plays IMVU). It's like a full blown soap opera.

One of the leaders of a family that I am pretty close to has two "slave girls" who have been played by at LEAST 5 different people of which 3 of them have at one point or another either lived with him or had a real life relationship with him.

Real life and fantasy quickly blur lines in IMVU. A huge amount of people talk outside the game either on the phone, MSN, yaho, texting, etc.

I'm sure for most that is in their relationships and friendships but I'm sure for others it may include activities.

 

[raisincharlie]

My curiousity is related only to one aspect - AB if he did indeed meet EB on this website, was into this lifestyle prior to EB entering his life.

Thanks for your response bellyup

 

[bellyup]

My curiousity is related only to one aspect - AB if he did indeed meet EB on this website, was into this lifestyle prior to EB entering his life. Thanks for your response bellyup

I'm not sure what is allowed to be posted as far as what we have heard in IMVU so hopefully I am not out of line with anything :waitasec: I guess anything stated in IMVU has be to considered as rumor so please take it as that.

My understanding is that AB's initial character was that of a druid. [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid[/ame]

from what I understand he switched his main character sometime around 2 - 2 1/2 years ago (which COULD coincide with meeting EB? I don't know exact dates that they met offhand).

 

[Aedrys]

Surely. But that point is also a stickler for me in regards to this case. The people that are performing the T1/T2 level "fighting and killing" are extremely intelligent and literate people. You have to have a very high aptitude as a writer. The writings are EXTREMELY detailed lengthy and creative (not all are attacks of course - but the format is followed for all activities). It's very much like a dungeons and dragons type of game play for those who are familiar with it. I am amazed at the amount of time and accuracy put into the T1 T2 style role play paragraphs and I have a writing background.

I don't see the case players in Zahra's case being able to perform to the standards of most of the T1/T2 role players in IMVU. The reason I believe this is that I've seen writings from at least two of those accused of playing in IMVU and they just aren't up to par or even remotely close. I have also spoken to several people in IMVU who have indicated that they were not serious roleplayers.

Which means *IF* ... they were "roleplaying" a "chainsaw masacre" it was very amateur in nature. More along the lines of the "Tim" example I posted above.

Not that it's a HUGE importance because even if it were amateur and they did "roleplay" this ..... it could be key information to the case. It may help firm a time line or indicate premeditation.

I just wanted people to know that the IMVU aspect like is NOT nearly as horrific or as a sensational as it's being made out to be IMO. Because virtual worlds are an "unknown" to many it can be quickly blown out of proportion.

In reality it wouldn't be much different than if someone suspected of THIS SAME crime was emailing a bunch of friends detailing what they wanted or were going to do.

Thanks for explaining this. I have a better understanding now. The one thing I wanted to say is that it is horrific and sensational if they, say, got someone to play "Zahra" and then in text were using those chainsaws to cut up "Zahra". So maybe there wouldn't be bloody graphics to back it up, but the idea that these people, who willing cut Zahra up in real life were possibly practicing or making a game of it in a virtual world beforehand is very horrific to me. It would just as horrific as people sending each other emails detailing how they will kill someone and get away with it. The imagination is usually enough to add pictures in the mind to make it more sensational and horrific. And a high IQ or writing skills is not required to sound violent or write violent things.

It's not how graphic you can make something that always counts. It's the content of what you're saying and how you're interacting with other people in a virtual world that can be horrific and sensational without violent graphics to back it up. And you don't have to be intelligent to be violent. To each his own, but it bothers me greatly that at EB and who knows who else was planning a virtual chainsaw massacre, and then not long after that, it came to real life with the very real dismemberment of Zahra. Normal people don't bring bloody fantasies to life like that. Apparently this was more than a joke or cutesy, amateurish fun to EB and whoever else was involved (though I fail to see how chainsaws and bloody role play is cutesy in any way, IMO).

 

[darnudes]

From what I know, they all have multiple accounts. It's rare to find someone in IMVU that has been playing for awhile that DOES NOT.

Aaron told me he had one account and one account only. That account has not been accessed in months. I don't think it is rare at all to find imvu users with only one account.

The alleged role play "game" is speculation at this point and nothing more, there is no evidence at all that Aaron was involved in this game. I'm sure Aaron is fully aware that those records could be accessed by the police, the same as with his facebook postings and and comment he made on a photo of Zahra the night before she was reported missing.

I feel a lot of sympathy for Aaron, he is accused of playing that game all on the basis of a warrant for his IMVU account and nothing more. I guess we'll know more of the actual facts when someone/s is finally charged with the murder of Zahra.

 

[Jacie Estes]

But if they are playing only with a "few" peeps they know, the intelligence level would be the same. I think it's a safe bet that they are not playing with top level players on there.

It is prolly safe to say that the eb crew was in the 'Oh look, shiny object' category.

 

[bellyup]

It's not how graphic you can make something that always counts. It's the content of what you're saying and how you're interacting with other people in a virtual world that can be horrific and sensational without violent graphics to back it up. And you don't have to be intelligent to be violent. To each his own, but it bothers me greatly that at EB and who knows who else was planning a virtual chainsaw massacre, and then not long after that, it came to real life with the very real dismemberment of Zahra. Normal people don't bring bloody fantasies to life like that. Apparently this was more than a joke or cutesy, amateurish fun to EB and whoever else was involved (though I fail to see how chainsaws and bloody role play is cutesy in any way, IMO).

I agree (on all accounts) with your post. IF it turns out this was acted out before hand it shows true premeditation to me. What worries me is that even if police get a hold of detailed records it may not even depict the entire situation (again, assuming there was one which we likely won't know until trial at the earliest if ever).

 

[bellyup]

The alleged role play "game" is speculation at this point and nothing more, there is no evidence at all that Aaron was involved in this game. I'm sure Aaron is fully aware that those records could be accessed by the police, the same as with his facebook postings and and comment he made on a photo of Zahra the night before she was reported missing.

I feel a lot of sympathy for Aaron, he is accused of playing that game all on the basis of a warrant for his IMVU account and nothing more. I guess we'll know more of the actual facts when someone/s is finally charged with the murder of Zahra.

There is no evidence at all that there was anyone involved in anything related to Zahra at IMVU (be it AB / EB / AY, etc.) at this point in time. In fact, I think at best all we have to go on is heresay and speculation that something possibly happened there based on whatever information was presented to LE that resulted in that warrant.

AY isn't accused of playing the game based on that warrant. He admitted in the questions to AY thread that he had played the game. Merely playing the game doesn't mean anyone is involved in anything violent and/or sexual AT ALL. But I don't believe for a moment that this group was riding roller coasters and wave runners engaging in friendly chit chat.

 

[darnudes]

There is no evidence at all that there was anyone involved in anything related to Zahra at IMVU (be it AB / EB / AY, etc.) at this point in time. In fact, I think at best all we have to go on is heresay that something possibly happened there.

AY isn't accused of playing the game based on that warrant. He admitted in the questions to AY thread that he had played the game. Merely playing the game doesn't mean anyone is involved in anything violent and/or sexual AT ALL. There are areas where there are theme parks (you can go on roller coasters, water rides, etc.) There absolutely completely benign areas of IMVU for someone to enjoy, talk to someone, etc. and there ARE some people that use it that way.

Aaron is accused of playing that particular role based scenario based on the warrant.

What other "game" are you talking about that Aaron admitted he played? This warrant, which the thread is about talks about a specific incident that happened on a specific date. It's got nothing to do with if Aaron was in IMVU or not, he was a member, he said he was a member but he has not utilised that account since Mar 2010.

 

[bellyup]

Aaron is accused of playing that particular role based scenario based on the warrant.

What other "game" are you talking about that Aaron admitted he played? This warrant, which the thread is about talks about a specific incident that happened on a specific date. It's got nothing to do with if Aaron was in IMVU or not, he was a member, he said he was a member but he has not utilised that account since Mar 2010.

Yes, he is accused of it in the warrant. IMO I am not sold that anything happened in IMVU. It's my personal experiences based on playing the game and speaking with people that NOTHING related to Zahra's murder occurred on IMVU. I could be wrong.... but I think some people with a disregard as to the seriousness of the situation got wind it was speculated that it was acted out in IMVU and they ran with the story that it actually occurred and made up stuff for shock value. :sick:

So no reason to defend AY here. I don't think the situation occurred at ALL. (sorry for grammar , typos I'm typing fast as the school bus is almost here)

 

[salvarenga]

Aaron is accused of playing that particular role based scenario based on the warrant.

What other "game" are you talking about that Aaron admitted he played? This warrant, which the thread is about talks about a specific incident that happened on a specific date. It's got nothing to do with if Aaron was in IMVU or not, he was a member, he said he was a member but he has not utilised that account since Mar 2010.

Where are you getting confirmation that AY has not used IMVU since March of 2010? Are you familiar with every account he made have had access to on IMVU?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

IMVU mentioned in interview with AY, Jan 19, 2011:

Young's name appeared in search warrants connected to the online virtual website IMVU. The website allows users to create computer personalities and enter different themed rooms. A police informant claims someone in the Baker's home participated in a murder with chainsaws on the website and that Aaron Young was involved.

Young admits having an account with the site, but denies that accusation.

“I didn't even know you could stuff like that on IMVU. I thought it was just a chat, basically a virtual chat. I knew they had different clubs and rooms you could go into but I didn't know they could actually involve stuff like that in it,” said Young.

The informant said the virtual online massacre happened Sept. 22, but Young said he hasn't been on the website in so long he does not remember his password.

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/top_stories/635596/elisa-baker-s-ex-husband-speaks-out

 

[daisy7]

Here are the rules of this thread:

You can talk about the SWs, AY's interview and the IMVU world in general. If you have been introduced to information which came from playing the game with the Players in this case, then you need to be verified by Tricia before sharing that information.

Regarding AY, yes, he was mentioned in the SWs and he specifically mentioned IMVU in his media interview in the above link. You can discuss his comments to LE or the media about this, but anything else can not be sleuthed as he has not been named a suspect. There is to be NO bashing of AY.

You need to read this post and thank it before before posting on this thread. Mods will be watching this thread closely and those not following the rules will receive a vacation without warning.