Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[Lovemycat]

That doesn't mean anything if the deal is regarding sentencing. Again - we don't know what he has or hasn't received or revealed.

If he had a deal he wouldn’t have a trial date set for January

 

[Gardenista]

Looking at the Carroll County prosecutors, seems they have two, Shane Evans (who used to be the mayor of Delphi) and Nicholas McLeland.

If these guys have a full caseload now, there is no way they are going to be able to handle this case.

Here's info about Evans.

Delphi mayor resigns; council meets Aug. 15 to elect his successor

Anyone wanting to be the next mayor of Delphi has until noon Aug. 13 to file paperwork to replace Mayor Shane Evans.

www.jconline.com

Here's info about McLeland

Carroll County chooses new prosecutor for coming year

Nicholas McLeland was chosen to replace the Carroll County Prosecutor on Jan. 1 by a vote of 15 of the 19 Carroll County Republican precinct people on Saturday.

www.newsbug.info

 

[gizmobtj]

Because he's charged with 35-42-1-1(2) which is felony murder. The difference is the intent element.

Under this statute, for (1), you need to prove the mental state of "knowing or intentionally" killing another person.

For (2), there is no intent element. The law states that a person who kills another human being during the commission of the listed felonies is guilty of murder. That's what "felony murder" means.

"Felony murder" is not a separate homicide charge like manslaughter or reckless endangerment. It is murder but it does not require an intentional or knowing mental state.

Again, the point behind this is the state is saying that by engaging in these listed violent felonies, if someone dies, we are going to hold you responsible without having to prove intent. Your conduct by engaging in kidnapping or burglary or arson or child molestation is so egregious, if someone dies, you are as responsible as if you intended it.

It's not just intent -- but you are correct. It's also that he did not actually have to do the murder. He could have committed a felony that led to the deaths.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Hoping i didn’t dream this up but I recall discussion here a month or so ago about Doug Carter being interviewed by Murder Sheet and he emphatically stated nobody would be given a plea deal regarding Delphi murders? Anyone else remember this?

I didn’t see the interview but this poster did, saying that DC‘s view was that it is crucial that the KAK case go to trial and not be pled out. DC even offered to connect Miami Co with a prosecutor from another county in order to provide more legal manpower.

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

 

[Schatz]

I honestly don’t know how it’s possible to keep up. I think I’ve totally skipped over 2 whole threads. Anyone got a highlights?

 

[steeltowngirl]

It seems unlikely trial proceedings will start in January. Won’t RA’s defense team need time to prepare, and they will need to request a delay?

 

[GatorFL]

It's not titled felony murder but it is felony murder. Here's the text of the statute:

35-42-1-1. Murder​

Universal Citation: IN Code § 35-42-1-1 (2021)
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;
(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);
(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:
(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC 35-48-4-1);
(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.1);
(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.2);
(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-2);
(E) dealing in a schedule IV controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or
(F) dealing in a schedule V controlled substance; or
(4) except as provided in section 6.5 of this chapter, knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus in any stage of development;
commits murder, a felony.

The difference between (1) and (2) is the intent element. So for (1), you have to prove the person knowingly or intentionally killed another person. The traditional defenses to that are that it wasn't intentional, the person snapped, it happened in the heat of passion, or whatever other defenses are allowed in the state.

For (2), this subsection basically defines the traditional legal concept of felony murder. It states that "A person who kills another human being while committing [specific felonies] commits murder." This does not include an intent element - the state does not need to prove intent to kill here.

The point behind felony murder statutes is that the state considers certain violent felonies to be so dangerous and egregious that a reasonable person should know there is a high risk of someone being killed. If you commit one of those dangerous felonies, and someone dies, we're essentially going to infer your intent.

If you set a house on fire (arson) and you didn't realize someone was home and that person dies, even though you did not intend to kill that person, you can be charged under (2) with murder.

If you kidnap a child and put her in the trunk of your car and she dies, even though you didn't intend to kill her, you can be charged under (2) with murder.

In this case, IMO, the state believes they have probable cause to prove at least that RA kidnapped the girls and it resulted in their death so he was charged with felony murder. As the investigation continues the state can always file additional charges. But right now they filed these.

I will say recently I have seen more State AGs file charges and then take their case to a grand jury and come back with additional murder indictments. I think there's a calculation to get a dangerous offender off the street as soon as you believe you have probable cause for the arrest while also wanting the security of an indictment where an independent grand jury concurred with your proof. JMO IMO etc etc

So felony murder could be charged based upon child molesting, kidnapping, rape and the various sexual offenses AS WELL AS charging even if RA didn't kill the victims. So lots on that list that immediately make sense based on what we know.

But why? Would it be the intent inference or one of the aggravators?

And does felony murder carry a different charge than murder?

 

[Lovemycat]

It seems unlikely trial proceedings will start in January. Won’t RA’s defense team need time to prepare, and they will need to request a delay?

I was talking about KK jury trial date.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I was talking about KK jury trial date.

Gotcha, apologies

 

[Schatz]

It seems unlikely trial proceedings will start in January. Won’t RA’s defense team need time to prepare, and they will need to request a delay?

Pre-trial is January, trial in March (but there’s still just no way).

 

[steeltowngirl]

I honestly don’t know how it’s possible to keep up. I think I’ve totally skipped over 2 whole threads. Anyone got a highlights?

Richard M Allen arrested and charged 2 counts of murder
He was on no one’s radar
Worked at CVS
Printed funeral photos for Libby‘s family
Probable cause warrant sealed
Hearing to unseal 11/22
Trial scheduled for March 2023

 

[m00c0w]

If he had a deal he wouldn’t have a trial date set for January

Based on...? Proffers generally go towards leniency at sentencing. This would have absolutely zero impact on his trial date.

 

[Schatz]

Richard M Allen arrested and charged 2 counts of murder
He was on no one’s radar
Worked at CVS
Printed funeral photos for Libby‘s family
Probable cause warrant sealed
Hearing to unseal 11/22
Trial scheduled for March 2023

I think I had all of that other than the hearing to unseal date a couple threads ago. But I appreciate it. Will back up and slog through.

 

[Lovemycat]

Based on...? Proffers generally go towards leniency at sentencing. This would have absolutely zero impact on his trial date.

It’s not a sentencing hearing. It’s a court date for his jury trial to start. If he had a deal it would not be called a trial hearing.

 

[Marysmith]

I honestly don’t know how it’s possible to keep up. I think I’ve totally skipped over 2 whole threads. Anyone got a highlights?

It’s not!
Not really… I’ve missed so much as well.

 

[Jealoushe]

Did the search for marathon gas station actually happen or was that just a rumor made up by the murder sheet for clicks? Because frankly I have read kegans interview and I do not think that the redacted names being discussed are TK. Since they mention "your dad" several times during the interview. As in "would you show your dad pictures....comment on hot girls?" etc along that vein. If they were going to redact his name I am sure they would also redact all the references to "your dad". Not hard to figure out who his dad is if they were concerned about redacting it.

What kegan did search for, confirmed as police question him about it is that he searched for "how long does DNA last" after the murders. He also says that the police know he didn't do it because they took his DNA the first time they interviewed him. At one point he makes a comment regarding the police knowing about all the CSAM and Anthony shots account basically right after the murder and letting him walk free. The cop responds that he had started the largest CP investigation in Indiana history. Which I infer to mean that they let him go right after the murders in order to try and get as many of these sickos as possible.

I don't know. I guess I am just sick of disingenuous youtubers and podcasters exploiting cases for clicks and basically making things up.

I think of all sources MS seem the most legit personally, and HLN.

 

[SkyBoomer]

Well, that’s a bit concerning. I really hope that if LE/DA find themselves in over their heads, that they reach out to other agencies for support.

This case needs seamless prosecution. MOO.

 

[Jealoushe]

This just screams unprofessional to me. Like how could they not expect this and if he can’t handle the job get somebody in who can.


imo

There’s only 3000 people in this town. It makes sense they are not prepared and understaffed. Sounds like they have hired people.

 

[Yemelyan]

I didn’t see the interview but this poster did, saying that DC‘s view was that it is crucial that the KAK case go to trial and not be pled out. DC even offered to connect Miami Co with a prosecutor from another county in order to provide more legal manpower.

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

I'm the poster haha

It wasn't an interview with Carter, though. @MistyWaters

The MS podcast was reporting on what they had been told about Carter's view on a plea deal for KAK by a source highly placed within the investigation.

 

[Andreee]

Source?

Heck, this was years ago, can't recall exactly.