Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[taylorss]

Defense attorney is trying to manipulate a potential jury and the public before the trial. This is nothing new and no one should be buying into it. If the PCA remains sealed, he's hoping people will take his word at face value and create reasonable doubt.

I agree mostly …. but … the fact that defense asked for release without bail first or, in the alt, release on reasonable bail…. is not confidence-inducing
JMO

 

[Algo214]

Could you expand on why that is? If enough protection were given to those juvenile witnesses, for example, would that sway you a bit the other way?

If I may offer my take: Family Court is not public, only the parties can know what's going on in there.
That's because children (minors) are most often involved (rather, in the middle of something that should be between adults) and they need the utmost protection from a State.

If there are witnesses who were or are still minors, NOTHING should be revealed about what they saw or who they are.
That redaction has to be SO perfect that there is no way somebody finds out who they are until trial.

EBM Spelling, can't English lately.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Color me NOT SURPRISED that he didn't act alone. It was a huge stretch for me to try to imagine that he did.

I'm curious why you thought it was a stretch that this suspect acted alone. I don't have any stats on it, but from the cases I've followed since the 70's it's far more common for murder suspects to act alone, than it is to have a "partner" in crime, as it were.

 

[Derph]

Haven't read thru everything but I've kept up on the case. I don't recall hearing ANYTHING about any interviews the cops had with RA and it doesn't sound like he even talked to them after his arrest. He just got his lawyers recently. It sounds like they just arrested him without telling him or his attorneys about the evidence they had against him. The gag order just came out today right? I would think that his lawyers would have wanted to get out ahead of everything and dispute some things in the media before they were gagged. But if they had nothing, then they couldn't say anything. That is concerning to me. This is all very, very strange.

 

[FrostedGlass]

My assumption: Both the "other actors" and the "still underage witnesses" are from the catfishing/child exploitation ring, which prosecution intends to prove Allen was involved in and then that his admitted presence at the scene of the crime (and pretty strong resemblance to the "Bridge Guy") are good enough circumstantial evidence to convict. I'm sure any and all jurors are hungry for blood.

MOO This is a heinous crime and someone will pay.

In closing, all a good prosecutor will have to say is: We've worked very hard to bring this man, who be believe is the murderer, to this point. (and some stuff about "evidence" and maybe show some pics, again), then say: 'Here is the murderer; it's in your hands now; have the courage to find him guilty!' He'll go to jail forever.

 

[MuddyTires]

6:36 minute marker on the video
Reporter asks attorney to talk about possibility of 2nd suspect involved; attorney replies basically (paraphrasing) that he didn’t hear that and doesn’t know what the reporter who said that was referring to.
Is that the way you understood his response?
I’m feeling all confused now.
Imo

No, that wasn't at all how I understood the response. To me, he was acknowledging the prosecutor referred to a second person being involved, and that hearing that from the prosecution in the courtroom was news to him.

 

[Gemmie]

My assumption: Both the "other actors" and the "still underage witnesses" are from the catfishing/child exploitation ring, which prosecution intends to prove Allen was involved in and then that his admitted presence at the scene of the crime (and pretty strong resemblance to the "Bridge Guy") are good enough circumstantial evidence to convict. I'm sure any and all jurors are hungry for blood.

You could be right about the underage witnesses... but my first thought when I heard about them was that they could have been out near the CS area and saw something, but were scared witless. They may have seen part of what went down or merely a bloodied up guy hurrying past after the fact.

 

[taylorss]

Right but do they believe the deaths happened whilst he was in the process of committing some other major crime (rape? Kidnapping? Trafficking)? We don’t know. We’re not told. We’re told he is the guy and now we’re told there may be someone else involved. What if the girls died as a result of some action - someone tried to kidnap them? Something happened, and then plan failed, the kids ended up dead. Now you have a pair of dead kids and someone who may not have actually hurt the kids, but was somehow involved. You could charge with the bigger offence and hope to use it as leverage IF you felt you had the evidence to support that, no?

We were all discussing when he was picked up that he was charged with Murder but he could face that charge under state law even if he didn’t kill them directly. If they died during the commission or some other crime… then they could charge with murder.

They have him literally on tape - assuming they can prove it’s him - kidnapping the girls by telling them to go “down the hill.” Kidnapping doesn’t have to involve taking the person to your home etc - it’s simply moving their location

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I'm curious why you thought it was a stretch that this suspect acted alone. I don't have any stats on it, but from the cases I've followed since the 70's it's far more common for murder suspects to act alone, than it is to have a "partner" in crime, as it were.

Agreed. It's difficult to imagine that more than one suspect was able to evade detection and capture for this long, and even more difficult to imagine that once this one was in custody that any others didn't immediately follow.

 

[SMK777]

Defendant leaving courthouse:
(WISH TV)

 

[MuddyTires]

As @asyousay quite pertinently points out (I'm taking @asyousay's point and putting in my own words):

There is a humungous logical fallacy in today's hearing. If "other parties" are the reason that LEA wants the probable cause affidavit to remain under seal, and yet the defence lawyer is saying no other parties are mentioned in that same affidavit, then how can it be used as a reason for the affidavit to remain sealed?

Did the defense lawyer say there are no other parties mentioned in the PCA? I didn't hear that in the video.

I heard him say the notion of a second person who might be involved was news to him. That does not preclude the PCA mentioning other parties---particularly the victims and witnesses.

 

[taylorss]

I’m not the OP but IMO….
- we know Libby was being catfished by KAK. Unless her simultaneous murder was unrelated, this at min shows involvement by KAK

- totally separate and just IMO … for all the talk about moving & posing the bodies…. that’s a pretty scrawny little dude
MOO

 

[Gemmie]

Agreed. It's difficult to imagine that more than one suspect was able to evade detection and capture for this long, and even more difficult to imagine that once this one was in custody that any others didn't immediately follow.

One could be dead and the other could be in jail for other things.

 

[asyousay]

I'm curious why you thought it was a stretch that this suspect acted alone. I don't have any stats on it, but from the cases I've followed since the 70's it's far more common for murder suspects to act alone, than it is to have a "partner" in crime, as it were.

Exactly!!!



Also this isn’t a major city. So in London , UK I can see a group of people doing this.


But in a small community in a wide open space on an early afternoon in February I just don’t see a bunch of predators lying in wait on the off chance young children come across them.


MOO

 

[TL4S]

This is a stupid question, but before the arrest PC, there had to be a PC to get a search warrant, right? Are they both sealed? I would assume RA's attorneys have seen that document, as well, wouldn't they have? We know something or someone led to that search, so that PC would be telling, too.

 

[RedArcher]

Color me NOT SURPRISED that he didn't act alone. It was a huge stretch for me to try to imagine that he did.

It seemed logical that this was planned together with one or more others, someone waiting down the hill while BG forced the girls in that direction.

 

[Vaderman]

I'm feeling less confident in this case. :/

 

[Nikynoo]

They have him literally on tape - assuming they can prove it’s him - kidnapping the girls by telling them to go “down the hill.” Kidnapping doesn’t have to involve taking the person to your home etc - it’s simply moving their location

But, it is all in context, is it not? If I were a criminal defence attorney, I already have an answer for that one.

 

[CDH1]

I’ve only been following this case since the arrest and imagine this was talked about extensively years ago, but I’ve had this nagging thought since I heard the recording that “Guys…” could have been instructing other men to go down the hill. Perhaps that additional word was released intentionally and seeing other men is when one of the girls realized what was happening? All MOO
The prosecutor’s statement today prompted me to create an account.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

But, it is all in context, is it not? If I were a criminal defence attorney, I already have an answer for that one.

I can see a good answer to "down the hill" by the defense, but if I were the prosecutor, I would play the entire video/audio. Moo but I think there is something more incriminating that hasn't been released.