Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[JudgeJudi]

Or video , or even just audio -- of him threatening the girls before their death ?
As in telling them what he was going to do ?
We know Libby took that short video of RA on the bridge, what if she turned the screen off but kept it recording ?

Sgt. Holeman said investigators have more audio from Libby’s phone, which was found with the girls at the crime scene. “It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it”.

Intriguingly he added, “There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions”.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

 

[Niner]

Not yet. YAW!

Thanks!

 

[JudgeJudi]

It would have been quite leafy I would have thought considering the time of the year so maybe she managed to drop it and cover it over with her foot.

Here are 2 images of the crime scene:

Delphi property owner: "I can't comprehend it"

Saying goodbye

 

[Cryptic]

OK, do I have this right? It is possible a private attorney could take RA's case, and be paid for by the state at an agreed upon state rate? Otherwise, he might be appointed a public defender?

Yes, you have it right.

But.... the answer is a murky: Yes- well at least in theory. But.... probably very unlikely in practice.

On very rare occasions the State will make such arrangements in high profile cases where the government also has an interest in providing such an attorney(s).

For example, Uncle Sam funded a super star defense attorney for Timothy McVeigh at his usual extremely high rate.

The Government's interest was to eliminate far right conspiracy theories that McVeigh had been framed and the real culprits were say, Islamacists, The Mossad, the New World Order etc.

California also paid for the Menendez brother's all star defense team in their third trial.

The government's interest was to avoid an appeal based on: Dear Appellate Court- The State has unlimited resources. They maliciously kept trying us until we had exhausted our ability to effectively defend ourselves. Sure enough, the state then finally found a jury willing to convict.

 

[TL4S]

Here's a link to the Oct. 31, 2022 press conference for anyone who, like me, prefers to read vs listen only.

Delphi Murders Press Conference Transcript 2022 - Arrest of Richard Allen (10-31-22) - CrimeLights

This is interesting to me:

REPORTER: Is Mr. Allen connected to any other crimes?

NICHOLAS McLELAND: Again, that gets into the evidence we have in the investigation. And I know, I know from everybody… it’s frustrating. I know everybody – not only reporters, but the family – everybody wants to know more information. I understand it is frustrating, but my goal is to maintain the integrity of this case.

 

[Boxer]

Yes, you have it right.

But.... the answer is a murky: Yes- well at least in theory. But.... probably very unlikely in practice.

On very rare occasions the State will make such arrangements in high profile cases where the government also has an interest in providing such an attorney(s).

For example, Uncle Sam funded a super star defense attorney for Timothy McVeigh at his usual extremely high rate.

The Government's interest was to eliminate far right eliminate conspiracy theories that McVeigh had been framed and the real culprits were say, Islamacists, The Mossad, the New World Order etc.

California also paid for the Menendez brother's all star defense team in their third trial.

The government's interest was to avoid an appeal based on: Dear Appellate Court- The State has unlimited resources. They maliciously kept trying us until we had exhausted our ability to effectively defend ourselves. Sure enough, the state then finally found a jury willing to convict.

True. Still the main reason is that the right to an attorney is one of the rights guaranteed to Americans in the Constitution, 6th Amendment.

Google: 6th summary.
The 6th Amendment contains five principles that affect the rights of a defendant in a criminal prosecution: the right to a speedy and public trial, the right to be tried by an impartial jury, the right to be informed of the charges, the right to confront and call witnesses, and the right to an attorney.

 

[lonetraveler]

If he’s guilty he deserves to be ”scared crapless.” In my humble opinion he deserves to fry! Twice for good measure. Unfortunately, I don’t think he is scared at all. Not. One. Bit. I think he is a cold blooded murderer. A chameleon feigning victimhood. Yet, he so casually resumed his life in the community playing the nice guy at CVS that gave BP photos for free. I find it absolutely sickening that he has the GALL to play the victim. I say this because I truly believe LE have the right monster. JMVHO.

I have always supported mandatory death sentences for murders of children. I certainly hope that he is found guilty and sentenced to death. I hope they have hard evidence and leave nothing to doubt.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Here's a link to the Oct. 31, 2022 press conference for anyone who, like me, prefers to read vs listen only.

Delphi Murders Press Conference Transcript 2022 - Arrest of Richard Allen (10-31-22) - CrimeLights

This is interesting to me:

REPORTER: Is Mr. Allen connected to any other crimes?

NICHOLAS McLELAND: Again, that gets into the evidence we have in the investigation. And I know, I know from everybody… it’s frustrating. I know everybody – not only reporters, but the family – everybody wants to know more information. I understand it is frustrating, but my goal is to maintain the integrity of this case.

Respectfully BBMFF.

IMHO, that answers my question about other crimes tied to him.
Thank you soooo very much, @TL4S, for sharing this!! ILY.

Again, moo, when DC said in the 2019 PC: “For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And one day, you will.”.
I believe that this was when or rather around the time when LE began looking at other possible cases that were very similar to A&L’s case. NOT the murders but whatever took place other than the murders themselves. The signatures, the MO, possible rape cases that left very little DNA behind, etc.

JMVHAspieO YMMV MOO

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Yes, you have it right.

But.... the answer is a murky: Yes- well at least in theory. But.... probably very unlikely in practice.

On very rare occasions the State will make such arrangements in high profile cases where the government also has an interest in providing such an attorney(s).

For example, Uncle Sam funded a super star defense attorney for Timothy McVeigh at his usual extremely high rate.

The Government's interest was to eliminate far right eliminate conspiracy theories that McVeigh had been framed and the real culprits were say, Islamacists, The Mossad, the New World Order etc.

California also paid for the Menendez brother's all star defense team in their third trial.

The government's interest was to avoid an appeal based on: Dear Appellate Court- The State has unlimited resources. They maliciously kept trying us until we had exhausted our ability to effectively defend ourselves. Sure enough, the state then finally found a jury willing to convict.

When counties do not have Public Defender offices, there is a list of private attorneys who are on a list to be hired to serve as counsel. My husband was a PD for many years, and our county has a PD office. In addition to those attorneys, there was a list of private attorneys who could be appointed in cases where the PD office had a conflict of interest.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

The money will go to the county to pay the lawyer, and other expenses. (And what if they arrest someone else? How is the county going to afford it?)

JMO: Carroll County is a rural county that (fortunately) does not experience a high homicide rate. Although Carroll County is rural, it’s not a demographically “poor” county. Here’s the wiki demographic overview:

Carroll County, Indiana - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

For this case, were there to be a concern about available funding for court proceedings, I am confident that state resources would be made available (as we’ve seen on the investigative side). Indiana overall has areas with unfortunately high homicide rates and has vast experience with judicial proceedings for violent felonies, including crimes against children. Resources have been and will continue to be made available from the state.

All My Humble Opinion Only.

 

[uwmadison]

I highly respect your opinion and I really hope that you're right. I found a similar case from 2015 : The Star Press vs Muncie, IN. It contains a very good analysis regarding sealing records. Am I correct in understanding that when a document is sealed without a hearing to do so, it can be unsealed without a hearing? I think they are going to fight very hard to keep it sealed.


According to this link, Indiana has a public access counselor. Who makes the final decision on unsealing?

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/15-FC-57.pdf

I think it would be the new judge assigned to the case .....Judge Fran Gull.

 

[IDK]

Here's a link to the Oct. 31, 2022 press conference for anyone who, like me, prefers to read vs listen only.

Delphi Murders Press Conference Transcript 2022 - Arrest of Richard Allen (10-31-22) - CrimeLights

This is interesting to me:

REPORTER: Is Mr. Allen connected to any other crimes?

NICHOLAS McLELAND: Again, that gets into the evidence we have in the investigation. And I know, I know from everybody… it’s frustrating. I know everybody – not only reporters, but the family – everybody wants to know more information. I understand it is frustrating, but my goal is to maintain the integrity of this case.

But that could go either way, right? Even if there is no evidence to connect him to other crimes, that relates to “evidence we have in the investigation”. ie— the evidence relates to this double murder only vs the evidence relates to possibility of other crimes. It could go either way, IMO. I just want to be careful and not jump to conclusions here.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

When counties do not have Public Defender offices, there is a list of private attorneys who are on a list to be hired to serve as counsel. My husband was a PD for many years, and our county has a PD office. In addition to those attorneys, there was a list of private attorneys who could be appointed in cases where the PD office had a conflict of interest.

Thank you for this.

I want to add that the Nicholas McLeland, the current Carroll County prosecutor, is a former public defender:The Monticello Herald:

[McLeland is] a public defender for Carroll, White and Clinton counties, and he spent about two years as a public defender in Tippecanoe County, he said.

ETA: I can’t edit the quote function to fix it. Hopefully the relevant quote is decipherable.

Here’s the MSM link:

Carroll County chooses new prosecutor for coming year

Nicholas McLeland was chosen to replace the Carroll County Prosecutor on Jan. 1 by a vote of 15 of the 19 Carroll County Republican precinct people on Saturday.

www.newsbug.info

 

[Thewiley]

The most logical explanation at this point is that he was not missed per se and he is more like Lloyd Lee Welch in the Lyons Sisters case (what a g*dawful case). My betting money is someone went back into the case file and saw something in his initial discussions with police that suggested they needed to take another look. There was likely something there that, in retrospect, didn't look right. Suspects are forever putting themselves in the jackpot in cases like this.

Beyond the parallel of it being the murders of two girls, Welch was long suspected to have at least one accomplice

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/magazine/wp/2019/04/01/feature/the-lyon-sisters-had-vanished-40-years-earlier-but-this-cold-case-team-didnt-give-up-on-them/

Hello, have been lurking for years, rarely post. Bingo to this, bolded by me

During DC Monday press conference, after the arrest, he thanked several individuals and groups.

He made a point to thank a lady (secretary, organizer, office staff?) for her keen observation and attention to detail.

This comment stood out to me. I don’t have a link handy, but presser is linked in the forum.

I will go back and find it, and time stamp.

IMHO

 

[websl]

RA is being charged with felony murder, not intentional murder. Felony murder means if he had a partner, and the partner killed abby and libby, RA can be charged for felony murder even if he did not do it himself.

It may be that RA did not even kill abby and libby himself

 

[Cryptic]

When counties do not have Public Defender offices, there is a list of private attorneys who are on a list to be hired to serve as counsel. My husband was a PD for many years, and our county has a PD office. In addition to those attorneys, there was a list of private attorneys who could be appointed in cases where the PD office had a conflict of interest.

Good point.

My rural "home county" also had that arrangement.

No public defender, but all active attorneys in the county were placed on a list and assigned to defendants as their names came up. And..... there was no reimbursement for the attorney. Rather, it was considered a public service obligation.

The father of one of my friends was a tax attorney with no criminal experience, but a reputation as being the best attorney in the county. He told me and my friend that his name was at the top when a very rare murder case came up.

The judge then gave the defendant the option to keep him, or since it the charge was homicide, he could choose an attorney with criminal experience. Though he hoped he would not, the defendant kept him. The resulting trial was long, complex and convoluted and forced him to turn down paying clients.

 

[websl]

I think they there is lack of concrete proof that he killed them, but there is enough proof that he was there when the crime took place.

It may be that he killed them himself alone, but they cannot prove it.
So they are charging him with felony murder so they can convict him anyway

 

[Mellowmelly]

I have always supported mandatory death sentences for murders of children. I certainly hope that he is found guilty and sentenced to death. I hope they have hard evidence and leave nothing to doubt.

I agree, there's no possibility of rehabilitation for these sick people and to keep them locked up for life will no doubt cost the public.

 

[TL4S]

But that could go either way, right? Even if there is no evidence to connect him to other crimes, that relates to “evidence we have in the investigation”. ie— the evidence relates to this double murder only vs the evidence relates to possibility of other crimes. It could go either way, IMO. I just want to be careful and not jump to conclusions here.

I fully agree. NMcL (or anyone else involved in the investigation) really could not have given a definitive answer to that question. "Other crimes" could also involve what we see with his formal charges, where the murders happened during the commission of another crime, like kidnapping, etc.

With that said, it's an interesting statement to me. It's still an open investigation, tips are still requested, documents are still sealed. It will be intriguing to see what, if any, other charges might come out of this.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Good point.

My rural "home county" also had that arrangement.

No public defender, but all active attorneys in the county were placed on a list and assigned to defendants as their names came up. And..... there was no reimbursement for the attorney. Rather, it was considered a public service obligation.

The father of one of my friends was a tax attorney with no criminal experience, but a reputation as being the best attorney in the county. He told me and my friend that his name was at the top when a very rare murder case came up.

The judge then gave the defendant the option to keep him, or since it the charge was homicide, he could choose an attorney with criminal experience. Though he hoped he would not, the defendant kept him. The resulting trial was long, complex and convoluted and forced him to turn down paying clients.

It was frustrating for the PD staff, who was very experienced in murder trials, to have this occur. There is that stereotype that a public defender isn't as qualified as other private attorneys. My husband never wanted or sought to go into private practice. Rather, his intent all along was to work for the county to serve in this manner. He and his colleagues were excellent and served their clients well.