Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

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But he already admitted to wearing the same outfit, so that would be pretty unlikely.
I've seen this description in multiple posts elsewhere, but MOO I think it's a stretch to say that RA admitted to wearing "the same outfit". The PCA says that RA told investigators he was wearing blue jeans, a blue or black Carhartt jacket with a hood, and possibly some type of head covering [assumedly that's in addition to the hood]

We don't know if the PCA describes everything that RA told them about his wardrobe or the PCA is snipped to specifically list the guilty parts but may exclude other parts. First off, blue jeans come in different shades. The jeans of BG per L's video are clearly a lighter blue shade than most available but could reasonably described as light-to-medium. (clearly not similar to the one witness who recalls the man she saw as wearing black jeans). We don't know if RA described the shade of the jeans he claims to have been wearing. While the description of the Carhartt jacket seems spot-on, there is no mention that RA's describes his footwear in the interview per PCA. There is no mention that RA admits to wearing a fanny pack or anything at all around his waist that day.

I do not know how all-inclusive the PCA must be or if a cut-and-paste approach is allowable but IFFFF hypothetically IMO the full version of RA's '22 interview went something like this:
....I can't say for sure what I was wearing back then on that exact day, but if I wore what I normally did to hike, then I was wearing a pair of {dark} blue jeans, a blue Carhartt jacket with a hood, red jogging shoes, and maybe if it was cold then another head covering, probably my royal blue Chicago Cubs cap. I can certainly say I've never owned any fanny pack like that released video is showing.... then I would say RA did not admit to wearing "the same outfit", though at the same time admitting to wearing some items similar to what BG was wearing.
 
Holding on to the gun I’m not convinced he realised he dropped a bullet. Otherwise he would never of admitted he had never lent it to anybody else.
I think even if he realized he dropped it, he probably thought it was no big deal. He more than likely thought since it hadn't been fired, that there was no possible way it could be traced back to him. By stating he never loaned the gun out and had never been in that area where the bullet was found he actually backed himself further into a corner imo. Now, he can't say well, I let someone use my gun it was them or I've been in that area a million times, I could have pulled a bullet out of my pocket accidentally and dropped it .
 
From the time given by LE he was seen leaving and the 3 girls were on the way in .


It was stated in the PC he was observed to be muddy and bloody looking like he was In a fight.
Imo the reason that was how he was described this way is; who would describe a person as "someone who looked like they stabbed someone to death in a mud puddle" . He may have had a scratch or 2, bloody hands and muddy jeans / boots hence the description of muddy and bloody...

Really no shake at all ..if anything more wasted time on defense theory's that dont match the evidence. Here is what a good lawyer would do with what you posted:

You mention Carhartt, Jeans, and Sig.

You the jury have been shown eye witness or Video or photo evidence which shows suspect who said "down the hill" wearing a carhart hoody jacket at 2:15pm. The defendent (points finger at RA) willing offered information he was on that bridge ,during that exact time ,wearing a carhartt hoody jacket..let me remind you members of the jury that this is the same jacket seized from (points at RA)defendants home 5 years later.

Jeans :Same as above just change the words "carhart hoody" to the words " blue jeans"


State Trooper Sig 227:
The crime scene was secured and only a handful of SP investigators were at the crime scene and maybe 2-3 from that agency were within the inner taped off crime scene location were the bodies and 40c bullit were found. After test results came back confirming the bullit had been cycled through (points at defendants) RAs gun and only his gun as the eject marks are similar to fingerprints and chances of matching 2 different guns would be in the billions we still went ahead and compared the marks to our own officers service weapons which did not result in match.

There are tens of thousands of these sig 26 and 27 owned by LE and private owners all over the US and the world...what are the chances we found 1 round at the scene,, that matches 100% like a fingerprint to (points at defendant) RAs weapon ..that he has stated nobody has ever had access too but him? He Also Stated he was in the immediate area of the crime scene at the time of the murders which has been confirmed by several other eye witnesses and also video.


RA like every US citizen derserves his day in court,His defense is required to do everything in thier legal capicity to get him off and if he doesnt make a plea deal after seeing all the evidence against him ..then he wll get his fair trail..the thing is.. this is 2022.. it's not easy to get away with any crime let alone murder...especially if you did it, Cameras,cell phone pings,dna,lie detectors,hair and fiber analysis,tire tracks,boot prints,socoal media etc etc will all be used against him. The days of uncheckable "maybe this happend..maybe it was this person" are a defense of the past. Either fight the science with science and let the chips fall or or plead out

Its possible when RA is confronted with the scientific evidence he will take a plea offer...IF one is offered. If not theres a small chance he still may plead guilty knowing its a slam dunk.
I'd love to know exactly what RA said he was doing, where he was trekking or sitting for the 2 hours he told LE he was there...watching fish for 2 hours, fall asleep on that bench for 2 hours, wandering the woods reading his stock ticker for 2 hours?
 
I'd love to know exactly what RA said he was doing, where he was trekking or sitting for the 2 hours he told LE he was there...watching fish for 2 hours, fall asleep on that bench for 2 hours, wandering the woods reading his stock ticker for 2 hours?
I'd love to know, too.
 
Sorry if replied elsewhere already - but it was not an unusually warm day on Feb 13th. It was sunny which may have made it feel warmer, and slightly above average for Delphi historically on 2/13. High temp was 43, low was 25. It was around 40 in the late afternoon - BG was dressed appropriately for the weather and a hat of some sort wouldn't have seemed out of place to anyone there.
It was unseasonably warm for Indiana in February that day. And there was bright sunshine, unusual because we have mostly cloudy days here in Indiana in February.
 
Latest episode of the Murder Sheets pod (ep. 150) is reporting that one of the reasons why RA was looked over back in 2017 was:



About the 5 minute mark

edit: link to pod

This would explain a lot - i.e investigators never got to see the tip
 
IMO risk of anyone being catfished increases with the number of online strangers one communicates with.

So the odds of a murder victim being associated with a catfisher, crimes totally unrelated, substantially decrease when the victim is also an avid SM user.

JMO

Also from the other perspective if thousands of people in the US are engaged in catfishing, there is a not insignificant chance their crimes are revealed by something unrelated but unlikely happening to the victim

e.g imagine a victim of catfishing is killed in a car accident and thus her parents discover the messages on her phone

The catfisher would be thinking 'what are the chances" but actually when you are dealing with big numbers, something like this is bound to happen

02c
 
If they really didn’t fight - why not? We’re they drugged into compliance?
I think we have to remember that they were only 13 and 14 years old and they got essentially ambushed on that bridge. Young kids put in a terrifying situation that ultimately ended their lives in the most horrific way. Fear does incredible things to your brain/body.
 
Can someone explain to me how an UNSPENT round is matched to a specific gun? TIA

So, according to the probable cause, except for the unspent round, everything else is circumstantial and extremely thin? A vehicle that resembles his Ford Focus, a man LE believes to be RA was seen bloody, eye witnesses who saw a man who they believe match the image on Libby's phone, and LE found jackets, a gun, and knives at his home?

No wonder the man didn't run. I have have all of those items in my house. I'm very interested in learning how an unspent round was matched to his gun.
 
Nowhere did I state they had a weak case. Simply that I do not believe they had RA on their radar until they found that tip, a tip that sat unchecked for almost 6 years. I'm sure they had a great timeline and a great lineup of witnesses, it just didn't include RA.
I agree. How many tips were received between the date of the murders and the date of RA's arrest? They had a mountain of mostly useless, irrelevant tips from the public that needed to be sorted through. The meaningful one got lost in the shuffle.
 
I’d like to know something different actually. I’d like to know and I hope we find out at trial - what was his demeanour like during the interview and subsequent search warrant? Did he leave the interview thinking he had them fooled? Or was he freaking out? During the search warrant, what did he imagine they were looking for? Did he somehow think the search would clear his name in all of this?

He had to have reacted to the search warrant in some way? Wouldn’t it be interesting to know how?
100% certainly
 
The PCA doesn't give us an inclanation as to what happened to the girls. Why was the scene so bloody. They haven't released that information. I mean from what other posts have stated it appeared as if the girls had lost a lot of blood. So many questions now that we see the PCA. Why didn't the girls scream? Did they scream and no oe heard them? I wonder if insteasd of a fight the girls were beaten to death. Perhaps the perp subdued them by the gunshots inflocted on them?
 
I'd love to know exactly what RA said he was doing, where he was trekking or sitting for the 2 hours he told LE he was there...watching fish for 2 hours, fall asleep on that bench for 2 hours, wandering the woods reading his stock ticker for 2 hours?
Yep. The very same 2 hour window during which time Libby and Abby were being murdered.
 
The PCA doesn't give us an inclanation as to what happened to the girls. Why was the scene so bloody. They haven't released that information. I mean from what other posts have stated it appeared as if the girls had lost a lot of blood. So many questions now that we see the PCA. Why didn't the girls scream? Did they scream and no oe heard them? I wonder if insteasd of a fight the girls were beaten to death. Perhaps the perp subdued them by the gunshots inflocted on them?
They probably didn't scream because they were being threatened by a menacing man with a gun. They were likely gripped with fear. He could have told them if they didn't make a sound and cooperated he would let them live. Or if they screamed or struggled he would kill them.

I doubt he actually fired the gun since the sound likely would have carried and been heard by someone. He owned knives, so perhaps a knife was the murder weapon.

I'm sure we will find out eventually what the cause of death was.
 
I'd love to know exactly what RA said he was doing, where he was trekking or sitting for the 2 hours he told LE he was there...watching fish for 2 hours, fall asleep on that bench for 2 hours, wandering the woods reading his stock ticker for 2 hours?
I wonder if he really had his phone with him and if LE was able to find the data to support or disprove his claim.
 
From the time given by LE he was seen leaving and the 3 girls were on the way in .


It was stated in the PC he was observed to be muddy and bloody looking like he was In a fight.
Imo the reason that was how he was described this way is; who would describe a person as "someone who looked like they stabbed someone to death in a mud puddle" . He may have had a scratch or 2, bloody hands and muddy jeans / boots hence the description of muddy and bloody...

Really no shake at all ..if anything more wasted time on defense theory's that dont match the evidence. Here is what a good lawyer would do with what you posted:

You mention Carhartt, Jeans, and Sig.

You the jury have been shown eye witness or Video or photo evidence which shows suspect who said "down the hill" wearing a carhart hoody jacket at 2:15pm. The defendent (points finger at RA) willing offered information he was on that bridge ,during that exact time ,wearing a carhartt hoody jacket..let me remind you members of the jury that this is the same jacket seized from (points at RA)defendants home 5 years later.

Jeans :Same as above just change the words "carhart hoody" to the words " blue jeans"


State Trooper Sig 227:
The crime scene was secured and only a handful of SP investigators were at the crime scene and maybe 2-3 from that agency were within the inner taped off crime scene location were the bodies and 40c bullit were found. After test results came back confirming the bullit had been cycled through (points at defendants) RAs gun and only his gun as the eject marks are similar to fingerprints and chances of matching 2 different guns would be in the billions we still went ahead and compared the marks to our own officers service weapons which did not result in match.

There are tens of thousands of these sig 26 and 27 owned by LE and private owners all over the US and the world...what are the chances we found 1 round at the scene,, that matches 100% like a fingerprint to (points at defendant) RAs weapon ..that he has stated nobody has ever had access too but him? He Also Stated he was in the immediate area of the crime scene at the time of the murders which has been confirmed by several other eye witnesses and also video.


RA like every US citizen derserves his day in court,His defense is required to do everything in thier legal capicity to get him off and if he doesnt make a plea deal after seeing all the evidence against him ..then he wll get his fair trail..the thing is.. this is 2022.. it's not easy to get away with any crime let alone murder...especially if you did it, Cameras,cell phone pings,dna,lie detectors,hair and fiber analysis,tire tracks,boot prints,socoal media etc etc will all be used against him. The days of uncheckable "maybe this happend..maybe it was this person" are a defense of the past. Either fight the science with science and let the chips fall or or plead out

Its possible when RA is confronted with the scientific evidence he will take a plea offer...IF one is offered. If not theres a small chance he still may plead guilty knowing its a slam dunk.
Good exercise.

I guess the weakness they'd go for is that bullet casing extraction marks are weaker evidentially than a fingerprint, or even more established ballistic forensics. If the defence can show that casing extraction marks are a subjective analysis technique, the rest is circumstantial. We can see from the PCA that the state has only used human-based subjective comparison techniques, not the more advanced techniques like 3D microscopic analysis etc., that are not subject to visual errors or analyst error. If the bullet casing is further analysed and is proven beyond doubt to have cycled through RA's gun, well, unspent bullets belonging to RA could have been dropped in the vicinity at any time, doesn't mean guilt, even though it paints a circumstantial picture that circumstantially points toward guilt.

When a judge retires a jury for deliberation she gives them very specific instructions, it isn't a free-for-all. If the judge says: based on the evidence in front of you, you must be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty, or you must return a not-guilty verdict.

Without the bullet it comes down to: Man wearing jeans and blue jacket in the area at a similar time window. Several juvenile witnesses who aren't reliable (contradictions regarding colour of clothing, they all say they didn't see his face). One witness said bridge guy could have been as tall as 5'10", RA is 5'4". RA admits himself he was in the area and has not changed his life considerably since the crimes to suggest he has sought to evade prosecution. He didn't get rid of his gun despite the knowledge that LE were looking for guns on the properties of other persons-of-interest (RL). He didn't move house.

The then-juvenile witnesses will be cross-examined and if they have any doubts or biases that have crept in since the murders and arrest, those will ring loud and be cause for doubt.

With the bullet it's all of the above plus a bullet casing that RA could have dropped anywhere at any time. Prove he put it there on 13 Feb 2017 at 14.30.

The bullet casing in and of itself does not prove guilt. That plus all of the other circumstantial evidence together paints a picture which I'd hate to have to consider as a juror. But let's for argument's sake suggest the state can't have the bullet casing admitted to the trial as evidence. In that scenario it just comes down to the clothes and the timing. Based solely on "the kidnapper was a middle aged white man wearing blue jeans and a blue jacket, and the defendant is a white middle aged man who wore blue jeans and jacket same day same place" in a vacuum - forget anything else for just a moment, as a juror you have to suspend certain biases and what might feel like logic, as per the judge's instructions - is enough to execute someone who doesn't deny being around there, has no apparent motive, no violent crime history, and no DNA evidence (again, we don't know, maybe it's coming)? No way would I say guilty in that situation.
 
What to me is absolutely striking is that RA somehow remembered what he was wearing on a day 5 years prior. Who can do that on just a normal day?? I think to myself, there are a few events in my life that I'll absolutely never forget. I know where I was, who I was with, and what I was doing. The OJ chase, Columbine, 911, the "national" blackout," (I was a HS senior when 911 happened).

But for the life of me, I don't have a clue what I was wearing, let alone what color pants, jacket, and if I possibly had some sort of head covering. I just can't understand how he was able to answer that question, why in the world he would answer it, and even more troubling how the defense team is going to make his response so absolutely unreasonable because of this.
Five years later he knew what he was wearing, what he was looking at on his phone, what he was doing on the bridge, and at what time he was doing it all. It's very specific, and if these were details he hadn't told LE/CO in 2017, then his story looks suspicious because it's so specific and detailed, imo. On the other hand, it also feels rehearsed. Perhaps he's been telling his wife and other people that same story for the last 5 years, which is why he remembers. L's video is like the center of a ven diagram, connecting all the other parts together. Good for her!
 
It’s maddening now that we know they had a bullet! RA had that gun all along and they didn’t even check to see if the guy who was ADMITTEDLY on the trail that day and who MATCHED THE DESCRIPTION of BG owned a firearm that would use the kind of bullet they found near the victims???

I think they just flat out missed RA back in 2017. Seems to me that someone filed a report and nobody else looked at it until 2022.
I suspect, even when they got the gun, it wad voluntary because they could not seize it. I suspect they did not have an evidence for a warrant until RA and his wife started, insanely, perhaps, answering their questions. I am in the rediscover camp, but the moment is the gun. The other piece of evidence that seems important is the woman seeing the guy on the road and the car. They knew a lot about the suspect but needed to go back to the statements and needed whomever it was to slip up
 
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