Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

[M. Kay]

It is really striking to me that on the ISP and FBI Delphi sites, the younger sketch is still up. I know they removed the description back in March, but RA's age, facial hair, hair, etc. seem to match better to the first sketch released. IDK. I'm starting to wonder greatly on who this YBG sketch witness was and what they saw. I, too, think it might be from an online profile. I don't think it's a_shots, though, simply because if they wanted a_shots tips, they could use that model's photo, just like they did in the a_shots release. I'm starting to wonder if that YBG sketch wasn't a different online profile, but one maybe they don't have a photo of, because the witness saw it in passing and couldn't find it again, or maybe even someone they saw in a video chat.

What an excellent response, so well thought-through. Could be so.

 

[Ekliptika]

I wonder if there were finger prints on the unspend round? Anyone who knows how well finger prints stick to brass?
Not sure if this has been discussed earlier, I have not been able to catch up with all posts in this thread yet.

 

[Teche]

That book is only 97 pages! Shame on Court TV for giving him air time.

He’s a prolific author...ha!

 

[AC4RD]

I do not think this has been a botched investigation. Honestly, I understand why people are frustrated by it, but I love that they have played it close to the vest.

Just MHO, if I may: "Botched" and "Close to the vest" are two different things.

#1 I've been saying for years that I admired the Delphi LE and people for NOT LEAKING over all these years. I'm sure it isn't easy to get so many people to keep confidences. There must have been whispers around town, must have been police spouses who knew ABC or LMNOP, must have been neighbors and relatives who heard rumors on the wind ... and almost NOTHING significant was leaked outside the local area/population. It shows a real strength of will and a real unity to hold details so closely, IMO.

#2 "Botched"--I am pro-law-enforcement and I will offer no criticism of the investigation. I think we should celebrate Toze and Carter and the whole crew, for their breaking of the case before the accused perpetrator died of old age! I thijnk over 5 years to catch a suspect who lived almost two whole miles from the crime scene and who was seen near it and admitted being near it around the time of the crime--of COURSE that takes time. So NO criticism of law enforcement here! But some people might say "botched" and obviously, that's a different issue from the effective and admirable silence from the locals.

MOO. JMHO. YMMV. LS/MFT

 

[Trebor5591]

I'm still stuck on the press release from the defense attorney. Why would they mention "did not throw out his clothing" if their strategy is "Rick is innocent". Why even mention the clothes?

If he's innocent, then he's not BG and his clothes aren't the clothes BG was wearing, so why would what he wore that day matter if he wasn't the killer.

The defense attorney mentioning RA still owning the clothes from that day points more to guilt than innocence. They could have simply not mentioned the clothes.

I think they mean to imply "Look, Rick may have dressed similar to the Bridge Guy, but that's just an unfortunate coincidence. I mean, if he was guilty, he would have destroyed those clothes! But that thought did not even occur to him, because he is not the murderer."

 

[Gemmie]

I wonder if there were finger prints on the unspend round? Anyone who knows how well finger prints stick to brass?
Not sure if this has been discussed earlier, I have not been able to catch up with all posts in this thread yet.

A latent fingerprint will be left behind due to the sweat secretion deposited from an individual’s finger. This print will leave an impression of the papillary ridge pattern of the finger and can be left on cartridge cases. This print will then cause a slight corrosion of the metal, usually brass <snip>

Even after a firing and washing of a brass cartridge an individual will still be able to visualize the fingerprints left behind.

More here so I don't break the 10% rule: https://thetruthaboutforensicscienc...nts-off-brass-shell-casings-due-to-corrosion/

 

[Falcon500]

I wonder if there were finger prints on the unspend round? Anyone who knows how well finger prints stick to brass?
Not sure if this has been discussed earlier, I have not been able to catch up with all posts in this thread yet.

Couldn‘t be a better surface but they could only hope for a latent fingertip.

 

[NugHunter]

Your analysis is fine however in this case there was no grand jury presentation. The prosecutors issued an arrest warrant approved by Judge Deimer and a trial was then scheduled based on Judge Deimer's authorization. My opinion only.

Thanks for the info
i didnt realize Indiana did not have grand juries. If you replace the words "grand juries" with "judge" my previous post might apply a bit better.

 

[Ontario Mom]

This information about the unspent bullet seems to mentioned in a recent Murder Sheet podcast? Not just the bullet itself but an earlier leak of that information.

I read that here, but have not seen a link so I'm not at all sure.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I’m more into thinking they had nothing which was why all was quiet. They didn’t play close to the vest, they didn’t have anything till Oct 22. It’s unfortunate that the girls family had to spend so long waiting for an arrest. Human error collectively from many departments delayed this arrest. Hopefully lessons were learned. Moo

Well, they certainly had the knowledge of the crime scene and what was found there which they never released. I love that, honestly. Some cases take longer to work through than others. It is very easy for me to sit here and speculate on the couch in my jammies, especially when I don't have one speck of detail to go on.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

So one person apparently leaks info (years ago) about the unspent bullet and now this other guy claims to have pics of the actual crime scene. That's not very close to the vest as far as I'm concerned.

Unless... the knowledge of the bullet is just not true, and the crime scene photo guy from CT (whatever his name is, he's new to me) is full of baloney.

jmo

When I do a search, all I get are a bunch of not credible sites.

 

[Gemmie]

When I do a search, all I get are a bunch of not credible sites.

I'm not surprised and why they want us to stick with MSM here. I'd actually prefer MSM minus tabloids but that's me! All JMO!

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Just MHO, if I may: "Botched" and "Close to the vest" are two different things.

#1 I've been saying for years that I admired the Delphi LE and people for NOT LEAKING over all these years. I'm sure it isn't easy to get so many people to keep confidences. There must have been whispers around town, must have been police spouses who knew ABC or LMNOP, must have been neighbors and relatives who heard rumors on the wind ... and almost NOTHING significant was leaked outside the local area/population. It shows a real strength of will and a real unity to hold details so closely, IMO.

#2 "Botched"--I am pro-law-enforcement and I will offer no criticism of the investigation. I think we should celebrate Toze and Carter and the whole crew, for their breaking of the case before the accused perpetrator died of old age! I thijnk over 5 years to catch a suspect who lived almost two whole miles from the crime scene and who was seen near it and admitted being near it around the time of the crime--of COURSE that takes time. So NO criticism of law enforcement here! But some people might say "botched" and obviously, that's a different issue from the effective and admirable silence from the locals.

MOO. JMHO. YMMV. LS/MFT

I agree. Botched and close to the vest mean very different things to me too.

 

[AC4RD]

I agree. Botched and close to the vest mean very different things to me too.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood! (Is mis-understanding, poor understanding, equal to "overstanding?")

 

[Boxer]

It is really striking to me that on the ISP and FBI Delphi sites, the younger sketch is still up. I know they removed the description back in March, but RA's age, facial hair, hair, etc. seem to match better to the first sketch released. IDK. I'm starting to wonder greatly on who this YBG sketch witness was and what they saw. I, too, think it might be from an online profile. I don't think it's a_shots, though, simply because if they wanted a_shots tips, they could use that model's photo, just like they did in the a_shots release. I'm starting to wonder if that YBG sketch wasn't a different online profile, but one maybe they don't have a photo of, because the witness saw it in passing and couldn't find it again, or maybe even someone they saw in a video chat.

A Yellow catfishing profile like A_S perhaps.

 

[Boxer]

I think they mean to imply "Look, Rick may have dressed similar to the Bridge Guy, but that's just an unfortunate coincidence. I mean, if he was guilty, he would have destroyed those clothes! But that thought did not even occur to him, because he is not the murderer."

MOO he destroyed those clothes and replaced with similar pieces.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I wonder if there were finger prints on the unspend round?

I'm guessing there was/are not (fingerprints matching RA). A fingerprint is certainly stronger evidence than comparing markings on an ejected round. The unspent round is important to the PCA so I think a fingerprint would have been reported. I also think there is no DNA matched to RA on the round. MOO

 

[Boxer]

I'm guessing there was/are not (fingerprints matching RA). A fingerprint is certainly stronger evidence than comparing markings on an ejected round. The unspent round is important to the PCA so I think a fingerprint would have been reported. I also think there is no DNA matched to RA on the round. MOO

The ejector marks are going to be strong. There are two marks, one from retaining and one from ejecting. On a microscopic level a scrape in brass by steel is going to be unique.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The ejector marks are going to be strong. There are two marks, one from retaining and one from ejecting. On a microscopic level a scrape in brass by steel is going to be unique.

The purpose of my post was to respond/explain why I did not think RA's fingerprint(s) were on the found round.

MOO Again, I didn't offer an opinion on the strength of the evidence of interpretation of comparison of markings on an ejected round, and I did not refer to ejector marks. I said markings on an ejected round, which I previously opinioned did not exclusively consist of ejector marks.

This, I think is a fact. Fingerprints are much stronger, more established and accepted evidence than the interpretation of comparing markings on a found ejected round and a round ejected for the purpose of comparison. MOO

Fingerprint Evidence in Criminal Cases

Learn how fingerprint evidence is gathered and used in criminal investigations and trials.

www.nolo.com

 

[Prime8]

<modsnip: OP upthread was removed due to error>

Image of drop-offs/parking on trails. The CPS and trail head parking is open and can mostly be seen by surrounding the county road.

This is a good reconstruction of the possible paths: