Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[Boxer]

PCA page 3 second paragraph, Witness #4 states in referring to who she saw... "he was standing on the first platform of the Monon High Bridge approximately 50 feet from her. She advised she turned around at the bridge and continued her walk"

Doesn't say specifically whether she had a clear look or could've been looking through trees or brush, but she does state how far he was from her, exactly where he was standing [on the platform, not just on the bridge] and that she did go all the way to the bridge before turning around (which would seem to suggest he would've had a clear view of her if he'd looked in that direction during the brief time she was there].

In addition to the above statement of her saying "her walk", later in the same paragraph of the PCA, she uses the phrase "finished her walk and saw no other males"

Thus I think her twice referring to "her walk" would eliminate the possibility she was running or jogging. Powerwalking I'd think yes would count as walking in terms of how the subject would describe it, but that's a really superfast powerwalk pace for that distance.

What part is super fast?

 

[TL4S]

Respectfully snipped (and bolded) by me.

Search warrant: Delphi killer took souvenir, may have ‘staged’ murder scene

DELPHI, Ind. – A search warrant reveals new details of the investigation into the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi. According to a search warrant obtained by the Murde…

fox59.com

This article says (you have to look in the photo timeline that they published to see this detail) that "At 7 pm (on February 15th, 2017) Indiana State Police release a photo of a man seen walking on the trail around the time the girls disappeared. They stop short of calling him a suspect."

This was actually the second announcement that they made that day. They had one earlier, around 3 pm, in which they announced the official identification of the victims and called it a double homicide investigation. (Info on timing from same article linked above).

So IF RA came forward before the photo was released, it would have to be between the evening hours of February 13th (when they first were reported missing to police and word spread that girls were lost) and 7pm on February 15th when they released the photo. But I don't think he came forward when they were only missing, because of the inclusion of his cell phone MEID in the tip narrative that the officer took. So if he came forward after they were found murdered on February 14th, then he had from noon that day until 7pm the next day to meet with the conservation officer and give his statement. It's a really tight timeline to come forward and have your story straight so maybe this is how he got tripped up. I wonder what his work schedule was from February 14th into the 15th.

I don't know if it means anything, but I feel like the fact that he spoke to a CO might also indicate it was very early on. We know from news sources that NRD officers (COs) were involved in the search, but I'm not sure how much COs would be involved once it became a full-fledged homicide investigation (I legitimately don't know). So, I do think it was likely the 14th or 15th. I'm betting he wanted to get his statement in ahead of the three juvenile girls, all while making it known he hadn't seen L and A, and doing so in the midst of chaos in Delphi. Imo, his strategy worked, too, for awhile, because the focus seemed to be finding the three juvenile girls rather than looking harder at him.

 

[mrjitty]

What part is super fast?

Right - according to AA

Seen eastbound to Mears Farm entrance 1.46pm

Seen westbound from Mears Farm entrance 2.14pm

Victims dropped off at 1.49

So the victims are at least 3 mins behind her on the trail, but potentially more if they were not focussed.

If we give woman walker the same inbound and outbound times for the sake of analysis (14mins), and say the girls were the same pace (they might have been slower), She might bump into them less than half way (3mins walking) back down the trail - my guess is around between 2.02-2.05pm

They will film Bridge Man at 2.13

Seems to fit?

Am I missing something?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Right - according to AA

Seen eastbound to Mears Farm entrance 1.46pm

Seen westbound from Mears Farm entrance 2.14pm

Victims dropped off at 1.49

So the victims are at least 3 mins behind her on the trail, but potentially more if they were not focussed.

If we give woman walker the same inbound and outbound times for the sake of analysis (14mins), and say the girls were the same pace (they might have been slower), She might bump into them less than half way (3mins walking) back down the trail - my guess is around between 2.02-2.05pm

They will film Bridge Man at 2.13

Seems to fit?

Am I missing something?

Kelsi said she dropped the girls at 1:35ish.

 

[mrjitty]

Kelsi said she dropped the girls at 1:35ish.

The AA has 1.49

Though interviews, reviews of electronic records, and review ofvideo at the Hoosier Harvestore, investigators believe Victim 1 and Victim 2 were dropped ofcrossfrom the Mears Farm at 1:49p.m. on February 13m, 2017 by ____

 

[FrostedGlass]

BIB / Snipped for focus

I am not sure what is you specific issue with women walker?

She arrives to the carpark some minutes before the victims, has a good 10 mins to walk to the bridge, and a good 10 mins back

I suspect she simply saw them closer to the bridge than she remembers, as they were likely only a few minutes behind her on the trail.

My specific issue is BP and KG both have stated that she at the trail, talking to her bf at 1:38 when she left the girls off. The woman didn't pass the HoosierHarvestore until 1:46. By that timeline, the girls should have been ahead of the woman by at least a few minutes.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The AA has 1.49

I order if the girls just hung out at the trail entrance for a while. Were they possibly thinking someone else was going to meet them, and they were waiting for them?

 

[Justice101]

Right - according to AA

Seen eastbound to Mears Farm entrance 1.46pm

Seen westbound from Mears Farm entrance 2.14pm

Victims dropped off at 1.49

So the victims are at least 3 mins behind her on the trail, but potentially more if they were not focussed.

If we give woman walker the same inbound and outbound times for the sake of analysis (14mins), and say the girls were the same pace (they might have been slower), She might bump into them less than half way (3mins walking) back down the trail - my guess is around between 2.02-2.05pm

They will film Bridge Man at 2.13

Seems to fit?

Am I missing something?

Well done!

Remember also that some of these times are just approximate times. People remembering about what time something happened when they were just enjoying themselves and paying no attention to time.. but later asked what time. Also, sometimes video from security is not synched to the internet and is off 2 or 3 minutes.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The notable item for me in the timeline is that a witness saw BG just after 1:26 pm when she took a photo of the bench and began walking toward the Freedom Bridge. RA placed himself there by 1:30. He arrived prior to Libby and Abby.

 

[somequestions]

But then how did RA not see the victims?

I don't know.

 

[JosieMae]

Agreed

I would love to read his interrogation!

Better yet - see the video. If the case goes to trial, perhaps we will.

 

[MistyWaters]

Right - according to AA

Seen eastbound to Mears Farm entrance 1.46pm

Seen westbound from Mears Farm entrance 2.14pm

Victims dropped off at 1.49

So the victims are at least 3 mins behind her on the trail, but potentially more if they were not focussed.

If we give woman walker the same inbound and outbound times for the sake of analysis (14mins), and say the girls were the same pace (they might have been slower), She might bump into them less than half way (3mins walking) back down the trail - my guess is around between 2.02-2.05pm

They will film Bridge Man at 2.13

Seems to fit?

Am I missing something?

Not to forget the 2 pics Libby sent by SC time stamped @ 2:07.

 

[steeltowngirl]

But then how did RA not see the victims?

This is the dilemma IMO - and no doubt exploited during interrogation

If walking woman sees RA on the bridge, then RA needs to get off the bridge and back down the trail without seeing the victims. Given walking woman saw the girls already inbound, this is only possible, if RA or the girls went off the trail, so as to allow one or the other past unseen.

or

If WW sees BG on the bridge - where was RA? it would appear he needed to somehow have finished his walk and returned already to avoid meeting WW on the trail.

Well, exactly.

 

[FromGermany1]

Right - according to AA

Seen eastbound to Mears Farm entrance 1.46pm

Seen westbound from Mears Farm entrance 2.14pm

Victims dropped off at 1.49

So the victims are at least 3 mins behind her on the trail, but potentially more if they were not focussed.

If we give woman walker the same inbound and outbound times for the sake of analysis (14mins), and say the girls were the same pace (they might have been slower), She might bump into them less than half way (3mins walking) back down the trail - my guess is around between 2.02-2.05pm

They will film Bridge Man at 2.13

Seems to fit?

Am I missing something?

The many times are confusing me, but I want to ask, if L&A could have slowed down their pace to not be seen by the female witness? Maybe, she was known to BP/MP or AW, and the girls wanted to avoid being seen at some certain point.

Does it make sense?

 

[TL4S]

My specific issue is BP and KG both have stated that she at the trail, talking to her bf at 1:38 when she left the girls off. The woman didn't pass the HoosierHarvestore until 1:46. By that timeline, the girls should have been ahead of the woman by at least a few minutes.

Didn't KG say she saw a car in the lot when she dropped them off (my memory tells me she said it had a lot of stickers on it)? Per the PCA, the woman said there were no other cars in the lot when she parked, so I'm going to assume the car KG saw belonged to the woman. Maybe KG's bf's call came in at 1:38, but they were actually driving to the trails at that point?

 

[mrjitty]

My specific issue is BP and KG both have stated that she at the trail, talking to her bf at 1:38 when she left the girls off. The woman didn't pass the HoosierHarvestore until 1:46. By that timeline, the girls should have been ahead of the woman by at least a few minutes.

Hmm

The AA says 1.49 based off the camera timing. I feel the camera will be reliable for the relative timings so they must arrive after.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Didn't KG say she saw a car in the lot when she dropped them off (my memory tells me she said it had a lot of stickers on it)? Per the PCA, the woman said there were no other cars in the lot when she parked, so I'm going to assume the car KG saw belonged to the woman. Maybe KG's bf's call came in at 1:38, but they were actually driving to the trails at that point?

Yes. Supposedly it had no connection to the murders but if it was the witness's vehicle, would LE say so?

Here is BP talking about the timeframe of KG's arrival at the lot. She seems solid on that.
20mm

Here is GH talking about the dark SUV with the decals
3:18:21 mm

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hmm

The AA says 1.49 based off the camera timing. I feel the camera will be reliable for the relative timings so they must arrive after.

Farther down in the PC, it gives that time stamp as her leaving. If arriving and leaving are both 1:49, she barely had time to boot them out of her car. If she came from the east, the HH cam would not have seen her arrive?

 

[FrostedGlass]

This is a screen cap from the gate area across from Mears, looking toward HH. If KG's vehicle was caught on video, I don't think it came from HH. You can see the curve just past the car. This came from the same GH video I posted above.

 

[mrjitty]

Well done!

Remember also that some of these times are just approximate times. People remembering about what time something happened when they were just enjoying themselves and paying no attention to time.. but later asked what time. Also, sometimes video from security is not synched to the internet and is off 2 or 3 minutes.

Yes so the video camera that imaged the cars might have a different time to the victim's video - i agree - but it will be the accurate relative to the 3 car timings, as it is the same clock. On that basis, the girls definitely arrive 3 mins after woman walker. IMO