Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[TL4S]

I'm trying to understand but I can't make the leap from the young BG to the old Muddy/Bloody being the same guy. I'm not sure about his strategy; when I go from sounding kind of smart to saying something really, really stupid, can I claim it's strategy?

Sure! I strategize all the time...

 

[steeltowngirl]

Interesting...I don't remember the item about the guy in black...but I do remember something it seems like the police said about looking for a backpack..seems like in connection to RL's barn???

Man in black discussed at 1:40 in this 2017 news video
and this is interesting …listen on to 2:15 - a lady JC says they gave a tip that her fiancé used to work with a guy who looks like BG, and he used to have a house down in the area and knew he was still around.

---

"We don't know if the person's a local or a drifter who came in and left," Riley said, as he explained what they were looking for as they look to nearby communities for tips.

"We want to look at any aspect of what somebody might have seen," Riley said, adding that if someone saw a person throwing away a
backpack, they'd be interested in tracking that down, too.

Teens killed: Police look beyond Delphi for suspect

DELPHI, Ind. — Police are not limiting the search for a killer to just Carroll County.

www.jconline.com

 

[JudgeJudi]

Police released a redacted probable cause affidavit that included a description of an eyewitness sighting a man who appeared "muddy and bloody" near the Monon High Bridge.

The Murder Sheet can confirm that this eyewitness contributed to the sketch first released in July 2017, the one that seemed to depict an older man.

Murder Sheet

 

[katydid23]

I'll respectfully disagree since she has said they were cranking the music and singing with the windows down. That doesn't jive with her talking on the phone the whole time, and in fact, she would have probably even said something like "I told the girls to keep it down because I was on the phone."

Maybe the part about the singing, windows down, etc. isn't true and what you said is the accurate part.

Maybe they had windows down ,while singing, for several minutes, then bf called, and they talked for a few minutes, as she drove into the lot to drop off the girls. She could have continued their convo as she pulled out of the lot.

 

[katydid23]

As recently as Nov 2022, DC said this:

I-Team: In 2019, Indiana State Police released a sketch of a man thought to be a suspect in the murder of Abby and Libby. Two years later, investigators released another sketch of a much-younger man. That guy and that guy (referring to side-by-side views of the sketches), and there is a lot of similarities. How did we get from here to here?

Carter: Well, I think you will remember, I have said from the very beginning, since 2017, a sketch is a sketch. It is not a photograph. That is the first time I have seen that, and I have also indicated over time that once we get where we are today, we will be able to look at the similarities and make a photograph, which will be Richard Allen. I think there is a little bit of both, and I don’t regret that strategy by any means.

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

DC has called it a "strategy" before, too. I have formed my own speculations in an attempt to make it all fit, but I've accepted that the true answers to this sketch question will have to wait until trial, if even then.

I've always believed that the two sketches were just two different witness's descriptions of the suspect. It is quite common for two people to remember or see things in a different way from each other---even when describing the same person or event.

 

[TL4S]

I've always believed that the two sketches were just two different witness's descriptions of the suspect. It is quite common for two people to remember or see things in a different way from each other---even when describing the same person or event.

Except LE told us they were two different people, not a different representation of the same person. But also, the killer would be a combination of both. And that's when people's heads started to spin.

I think both statements will actually be accurate in the end, but it won't make sense to us until we find out LE's strategy.

I was looking for this yesterday and never found it, but after the PCA was released, I read somewhere that the three juveniles had described the man they saw near FB to LE before the BG photo release on 2/15/17. As far as I know, we have not heard when the woman came forward who saw the man on the bridge, and MS reported that the "muddy and bloody" witness came forward in 5/17. So, when the juveniles came forward and their description of clothing generally matched the as of yet publicly unseen video from L's phone, LE likely knew that it was the same man. But the YBG sketch wasn't drawn until 2/17/17, two days after the BG photo was released. That doesn't necessarily mean the witness didn't talk to LE before 2/15, but if they didn't, I wonder if that is why LE didn't release the YBG until 2019. It does not apparently match the person who the rest of the witnesses described, possibly? IMO, none of the witnesses from the PCA are the source of YBG (I could be totally wrong with that). And this, IMO, is a key piece of information that we won't know about until it possibly comes out at trial.

 

[Boxer]

Discussion about what witnesses reported at the time hasn't been including one I remember. I have no link to take us back.
A lone, young, all-in-black male with a black backpack was reported 'leaving?'. Perhaps he has been explained?
Anyone from early days remember mention of sighting?

MOO separate information. The man in black was on of the three young girls RA passed in the trail’s memory of RA’s clothing. The other two remembered blue jacket and jeans.

The backpack was a request from the Police be on the look out for it tossed or anyone they saw on the road with a backpack.

 

[M. Kay]

Except LE told us they were two different people, not a different representation of the same person. But also, the killer would be a combination of both. And that's when people's heads started to spin...
...I think both statements will actually be accurate in the end, but it won't make sense to us until we find out LE's strategy.

MOO separate information. The man in black was on of the three young girls RA passed in the trail’s memory of RA’s clothing. The other two remembered blue jacket and jeans.

The backpack was a request from the Police be on the look out for it tossed or anyone they saw on the road with a backpack.

Thanks for all responses on the topic of early-news report of black outfit/"backpack" guy, including 'steeltowngirl' too. I'd long thought that second sketch reveal might be him, the guy who appeared younger...so I'm combining and confusing also.
Today it's poignant how so many here continue with helpful replies! Wish I could send everyone an orange lightbulb for the upcoming anniversary date.

 

[Falling Down]

I can't see why it was included, either. Either they cleared the first sketch or they didn't. If they didn't, then why did they go with the second sketch?

Which in my mind makes me wonder about the April 2019 PC, the "new direction", etc. I believe LE had nothing until RA came on to their radar last year.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

Except they told us to ignore the first sketch, to go with the second young one and that they were not the same person. So how did they clear the muddy/bloody one. Surely they didn't stop until they found him and got an admission from him that he was indeed the one she saw?

Or maybe they didn't confirm it? Is that why DC backtracked and said that odd thing about overlaying the sketches and his face would be underneath (or whatever confusing thing he said)?

In my opinion, those two sketches were guesses by LE.

They chose individuals who they believed had the best chance of probably seeing bridge guy and put out a sketch based on those eyewitness statement descriptions. If someone had thought Richard Allen looked like either of those sketches he would have been reported to LE and maybe this case would have been solved sooner. Sometimes I wonder if Richard Allen thought the sketches were so far off that he had nothing to worry about.

If a person is wearing a blue jacket, is the same height, looks like the same person, people will think it is the same person.

 

[katydid23]

Except LE told us they were two different people, not a different representation of the same person. But also, the killer would be a combination of both. And that's when people's heads started to spin.

I think both statements will actually be accurate in the end, but it won't make sense to us until we find out LE's strategy.

I was looking for this yesterday and never found it, but after the PCA was released, I read somewhere that the three juveniles had described the man they saw near FB to LE before the BG photo release on 2/15/17. As far as I know, we have not heard when the woman came forward who saw the man on the bridge, and MS reported that the "muddy and bloody" witness came forward in 5/17. So, when the juveniles came forward and their description of clothing generally matched the as of yet publicly unseen video from L's phone, LE likely knew that it was the same man. But the YBG sketch wasn't drawn until 2/17/17, two days after the BG photo was released. That doesn't necessarily mean the witness didn't talk to LE before 2/15, but if they didn't, I wonder if that is why LE didn't release the YBG until 2019. It does not apparently match the person who the rest of the witnesses described, possibly? IMO, none of the witnesses from the PCA are the source of YBG (I could be totally wrong with that). And this, IMO, is a key piece of information that we won't know about until it possibly comes out at trial.

I know they said that at one point, it was 2 different people. But then they backtracked on that and were very vague about it. So I concluded it was 2 versions of the same guy.

And I think that we will find out that is actually what happened, by the time we get to trial...when that finally happens.

 

[Megnut]

I know they said that at one point, it was 2 different people. But then they backtracked on that and were very vague about it. So I concluded it was 2 versions of the same guy.

And I think that we will find out that is actually what happened, by the time we get to trial...when that finally happens.

I theorize that the YBG was released, not for public consumption, but as a statement directly to the murderer(s), who would recognize the sketch and the significance. We're onto you.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

[Speaking] Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And one day, you will. A question to you: What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children! Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders. We try so hard to understand how a person could do something like this to two children. I recently watched a movie called ‘The Shack’, and there’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death, and about eternity. To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, IS NOT, what they are experiencing today.

 

[FrostedGlass]

FYI: When I pulled up a case just now on Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase there is a new box that asks "Is this your case?" If it is, once you prove your identity, you will receive an access code to view your documents. I didn't realize that parties to their cases did not have access.

I decided to create an account to see if there is a benefit for the public to do so. At this point, I don't see any benefit other than they now know my name, phone # and email. However, I probably will need an account in order to either view public docs or buy them.

 

[Yemelyan]

[Speaking] Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And one day, you will. A question to you: What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children! Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders. We try so hard to understand how a person could do something like this to two children. I recently watched a movie called ‘The Shack’, and there’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death, and about eternity. To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, IS NOT, what they are experiencing today.

Thanks for posting this reminder of those words. It is so striking to me how well, in retrospect, they fit RA: he lived close enough to have been in that very room, had he wanted to attend in person; he was hiding in plain sight; it did take a shift in investigative strategy to arrest him; and they HAD interviewed him already. I know that many believe that he didn't come onto their radar until 2022 but things like this make me wonder.

 

[dm799]

Thanks for posting this reminder of those words. It is so striking to me how well, in retrospect, they fit RA: he lived close enough to have been in that very room, had he wanted to attend in person; he was hiding in plain sight; it did take a shift in investigative strategy to arrest him; and they HAD interviewed him already. I know that many believe that he didn't come onto their radar until 2022 but things like this make me wonder.

It is tempting to go back and try and fit many prior LE statements to RA with the benefit of hindsight, but to me everything they said regarding their suspect is pretty vague. Blanket statements that could apply to almost anyone.

The things they actually give detail on aren't very close; age & sketch.

Watching this again does make me wonder though; when they said their suspect may appear younger than their true age I was always imagining someone with a very youthful face, but perhaps that was a clue about RA's height?

In my opinion that press conference was a total hail mary. And no shift in investigate strategy was ever required. Just straightforward investigative work following up the most obvious leads would lead them straight to their suspect.

My opinion only, others are available.

 

[TL4S]

For anyone interested. New MS episode.

The Delphi Murders: A Conversation With Another One of Richard Allen's Co Workers

 

[Yemelyan]

RA's defense team is now asking to delay the bail hearing that was set for next week, saying that they need more time to prepare: Defense asks for delay in Feb. 17 bail hearing for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen

According to the motion, the defense said it has “yet to receive the entirety of discovery” from the state and was “not yet prepared to proceed with the bail hearing.”

Allen’s counsel anticipated receiving the remaining discovery materials by the end of the week and said it lacked “adequate time to review the discovery in preparation for the bail hearing.”

As a result, the defense is asking Special Judge Fran Gull for a delay. If the hearing is continued, the defense acknowledged the court would likely have to push back Allen’s trial, which is scheduled for March 20, 2023.

 

[Megnut]

RA's defense team is now asking to delay the bail hearing that was set for next week, saying that they need more time to prepare: Defense asks for delay in Feb. 17 bail hearing for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen

According to the motion, the defense said it has “yet to receive the entirety of discovery” from the state and was “not yet prepared to proceed with the bail hearing.”

Allen’s counsel anticipated receiving the remaining discovery materials by the end of the week and said it lacked “adequate time to review the discovery in preparation for the bail hearing.”

As a result, the defense is asking Special Judge Fran Gull for a delay. If the hearing is continued, the defense acknowledged the court would likely have to push back Allen’s trial, which is scheduled for March 20, 2023.

And so it begins.

Typical defense playback.

JMO

 

[EllaMinnowP]

RA's defense team is now asking to delay the bail hearing that was set for next week, saying that they need more time to prepare: Defense asks for delay in Feb. 17 bail hearing for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen

According to the motion, the defense said it has “yet to receive the entirety of discovery” from the state and was “not yet prepared to proceed with the bail hearing.”

Allen’s counsel anticipated receiving the remaining discovery materials by the end of the week and said it lacked “adequate time to review the discovery in preparation for the bail hearing.”

As a result, the defense is asking Special Judge Fran Gull for a delay. If the hearing is continued, the defense acknowledged the court would likely have to push back Allen’s trial, which is scheduled for March 20, 2023.

Now I’m feeling evermore confident that Richard Allen is guilty as charged since his defense is still not prepared to argue for bail after all this time. MOO