Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[Gemmie]

The following is just a weird thing that has become a bit of a headscratcher to me ...
It's just me, mulling my own impressions ... so MOO.

Also, thanks for letting me get it off my chest. I'm guessing it's been asked or mulled-about in these threads before. Maybe it's been beat to death and all figured out. LOL. So ...

The "Guys" audio addition sticks in my craw - a headscratcher.
a) Wondering why (LE) withhold that tidbit for 5-years in?
b) Who approaches 2 strange girls on a hike (that they've never met prior) and calls them "guys"? Much less, "Guys, go this way."
c) The use of "Guys, down the hill" is a directional instruction. One would think it's not a first sentence upon a first meeting.
d) Is it interesting that the girls made a choice to film this random dude walking towards them (Why was he interesting enough to film? Why was he interesting enough to wait and watch as he negotiated the tracks slowly? If he was weird or threatening, would they stand there and film? Had they met BG guy at some point beforehand?)
e) The voice recording has been disembodied from the BG walking video. We actually don't know when "Guys down the hill" was uttered during audio/video capture.
d) Add to this that we're told one of the girls can be heard later in same video to say "Gun", along additional walking sounds.

The whole line "Guys, down the hill" seems an odd first sentence to speak to 2 young girls who are strangers. Would you say "Guys, down the hill" to 2 young girls, strangers to you, that you just came upon? Or would you say it to kids who expected you, and waited for your direction?

Probably overthinking this. Still, it BUGs me.

Again ... 5 years of keeping "Guys" from the public. Maybe someday we'll understand why. Clearly quite a bit we don't yet understand.

To me, 'guys' is just an informal way of speaking. I've called people, women and young girls included, 'guys'. It's usually something like "Hey, guys... let's do XYX or Hey guys, what do you think about XYZ?".

So since I've used it many, many times over the decades myself, when speaking to females of all ages (and males and mixed company), I don't find it odd at all. I'm thinking you've never done this so it feels odd to you. I'm thinking RA does it in the same way that I do. People are just 'guys' when speaking to them informally. NOT something you'd do when addressing the royal family under any circumstances. lol

ETA - And yes, I'd call young girls I didn't know 'guys'. Like... "Knock it off, guys", if they were doing something mean.

ETA 2 - I would NEVER consider calling women or young girls 'gals'. It's just always been 'guys' for me. Gals just seems weird to me. That word would never roll off my tongue. lol

 

[Gemmie]

Do we think BG saw Libby filming him?

Not unless he lifted his head. He seems pretty intent on watching his step in the few seconds long clip we've seen. I'd be keeping an eye on my feet if I had to walk across that bridge. It looks pretty treacherous. And it's not like it's a short fall either.

So I don't think he saw her filming him. He had his mind on 2 huge things at that moment IMO. 1) Not tripping or putting his foot down on a crumbly spot and having his foot break through, and 2) what he was about to do in mere moments. Too bad he didn't trip and fall. Those girls would have been spared and they likely would have been heroes for getting him help.

 

[stattlich1]

Do you know of an instance where a plea deal is arranged without charges first being laid? I’ve never heard of that nor can I imagine why someone would voluntarily implicate themselves without knowing what potential conviction might be hanging over their head. A plea deal is not an agreement for someone to rat on another and therefore entirely avoid all personal ramifications for their involvement in the crime.

Plea bargain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A plea bargain (also plea agreement or plea deal) is an agreement in criminal law proceedings, whereby the prosecutor provides a concession to the defendant in exchange for a plea of guilt or nolo contendere.This may mean that the defendant will plead guilty to a less serious charge, or to one of the several charges, in return for the dismissal of other charges; or it may mean that the defendant will plead guilty to the original criminal

Well, it may not be an 'official' plea deal.

A search would indicate KAK is working with investigators. He does have charges, but not charged with murder in this case.

 

[Betty P]

"Down the hill" leads to Deer Creek, there is no option of no mud. There is nowhere to march them to a vehicle that doesn't involve crossing the creek, a steep hike and a substantial risk of being seen once they exited the woods. The nearest place to park a car would be the cemetery.

RA didn't even risk parking his car near the cemetery, he had to walk and hike in and out.

Moo, but a look at the maps makes it clear that he waited for a victim(s) to be in the isolated area of the bridge where they couldn't go around him to go back. He then took them to a secluded area to do what he had been thinking about for some time, out of sight and earshot of witnesses. MOO

If KK had never been heard of, I doubt that many people would think a 2nd person or a complicated kidnap/murder plan was involved. Nothing RA did required an accomplice. MOO

View attachment 408448

Redirect Notice

I agree. JMO, the odds are against anyone else being physically involved in the kidnapping and murders. My theory is that RA communicated online with KAK, using his online profile to gain access to the girls and either set up a meeting or learn that they were going to the bridge that day.


JMO, going through KAK's online messages, files etc. gave investigators clues about other possible suspects, including RA. When they began identifying and tracing creeps that KAK gave info to about A Shots account, they looked at RA, then went back to find he was on the list for talking to the park ranger.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well, it may not be an 'official' plea deal.

A search would indicate KAK is working with investigators. He does have charges, but not charged with murder in this case.

KAK working with investigators?……that sounds like the scorpion helping the frog cross the road scenario. I say again, just imagine the public outrage if KAK was given hero status for helping to solve the Delphi case without facing any consequences for his own involvement. Is that what we think is going to happen, it sure wouldn’t make my day. I just can’t see even a remote chance of that, if LE know he was directly involved and had a connection to RA, he’d be facing charges right now too, even for the sake of polishing up their public reputation. IMO.

 

[stattlich1]

It clearly states the parties are engaged in negotiations.

 

[stattlich1]

It's plausible KAK has provided information to LE relative to the Abby and Libby case. There is no proof of such at this time, not that I'm aware of.

It's also plausible KAK has been providing LE with information relative to other LE investigations.

Knowing that he, and his counsel, were/are in negotiations with the State of Indiana is telling. Can't wait for the trial(s) to unfold so as to potentially answer some long debated questions.

 

[TL4S]

It's plausible KAK has provided information to LE relative to the Abby and Libby case. There is no proof of such at this time, not that I'm aware of.

It's also plausible KAK has been providing LE with information relative to other LE investigations.

Knowing that he, and his counsel, were/are in negotiations with the State of Indiana is telling. Can't wait for the trial(s) to unfold so as to potentially answer some long debated questions.

I even think it's plausible that KAK could be helping with the Delphi case as it relates to his current CSAM case. He doesn't have to have been involved with the murders, but he could be sharing information about online accounts, usernames, dropbox files, etc., that possibly pertain to one or both of the girls or the murders. Just a thought.

 

[sandy_80]

MOO Yes. I don't blame them, so little to go on, any kind of information of him having told someone else about L, is what they hoped could lead them to a suspect. They practically told him they knew he wasn't the killer.
Highly unusual and unbelievably naive that a defendant would subject themself to interrogation without an attorney after already being in custody for multiple felonies.

they can be held accountable if the the intensive massive expensive river search was indeed based on a word of a conman and liar ? dont you think ? wasting state money and so on
but so far we only have the word of the MS ..le will not expose this for now
possibly on a future documentary
MPO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

It clearly states the parties are engaged in negotiations.

The continuance of KK's jury trial from Oct 2022 to Jan 2023 to May 2023 is just the latest in a string of continuances. His first jury trial was scheduled nearly 2 years for May 2021.

In Dec 2021, reporter McDonald posted that the trial was again delayed as negotiations for a plea agreement had broken down, and I believe this was stated at yet another continuance (besides more recently). So, I'm not seeing any new developments here.
Moo since KK apparently made admissions in his first interview with LE (the one we have no information from) he has diminished his ability to plea bargain.



Barbara MacDonald
@NewsyBarbara
Kegan Kline's attorney says "negotiations have broken down and a resolution to this matter will not be reached by way of negotiations or plea agreement." Court sets trial date for May 9-13, 2022.
6:07 AM · Dec 14, 2021

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[MistyWaters]

It clearly states the parties are engaged in negotiations.

Yes but the negotiations refer to KAK’s child *advertiser censored* case. It wouldn’t surprise me if he is considering a plea deal in relation to those charges.

BBM

Man linked to Delphi murder case through fake, online profile has child porn trial confirmed for January

According to court records, Kegan Kline admitted to creating the fake, online "anthony_shots" profile to meet underage girls and receive explicit photos.

www.wthr.com

13News wants to make it clear Kegan Kline has not been named a suspect in the Delphi murders. In Fact, ISP issued the following statement to 13News about Kline:
The Indiana State Police do not confirm or deny anyone who is or is not a suspect in any ongoing investigation. At this time, we are looking for any information about the “anthony_shots” profile and anyone who may have had contact with that profile. The case that you are referring to is a separate child *advertiser censored* case.

 

[stattlich1]

The continuance of KK's jury trial from Oct 2022 to Jan 2023 to May 2023 is just the latest in a string of continuances. His first jury trial was scheduled nearly 2 years for May 2021.

In Dec 2021, reporter McDonald posted that the trial was again delayed as negotiations for a plea agreement had broken down, and I believe this was stated at yet another continuance (besides more recently). So, I'm not seeing any new developments here.
Moo since KK apparently made admissions in his first interview with LE (the one we have no information from) he has diminished his ability to plea bargain.



Barbara MacDonald
@NewsyBarbara
Kegan Kline's attorney says "negotiations have broken down and a resolution to this matter will not be reached by way of negotiations or plea agreement." Court sets trial date for May 9-13, 2022.
6:07 AM · Dec 14, 2021

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

The document I posted earlier, dated 11/8/2022, clearly states the parties are in negotiations.

 

[stattlich1]

Yes but the negotiations refer to KAK’s child *advertiser censored* case. It wouldn’t surprise me if he is considering a plea deal in relation to those charges.

BBM

Man linked to Delphi murder case through fake, online profile has child porn trial confirmed for January

According to court records, Kegan Kline admitted to creating the fake, online "anthony_shots" profile to meet underage girls and receive explicit photos.

www.wthr.com

13News wants to make it clear Kegan Kline has not been named a suspect in the Delphi murders. In Fact, ISP issued the following statement to 13News about Kline:
The Indiana State Police do not confirm or deny anyone who is or is not a suspect in any ongoing investigation. At this time, we are looking for any information about the “anthony_shots” profile and anyone who may have had contact with that profile. The case that you are referring to is a separate child *advertiser censored* case.

Yes indeed. I don’t recall stating KAK had any charges related to the Delphi murders. He is though, apparently in negotiations with the state of Indiana. The exact parameters, depth, and/or reach of those negotiations being unknown.

 

[MistyWaters]

I even think it's plausible that KAK could be helping with the Delphi case as it relates to his current CSAM case. He doesn't have to have been involved with the murders, but he could be sharing information about online accounts, usernames, dropbox files, etc., that possibly pertain to one or both of the girls or the murders. Just a thought.

The interview released with KAK is dated August 2020, the same month he was arrested. If he had information to share with LE I’d wonder how useful it would be almost three years later. LE would‘ve been able to obtain that sort of data by subpoena at the time without his cooperation if there was good reason. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes indeed. I don’t recall stating KAK had any charges related to the Delphi murders. He is though, apparently in negotiations with the state of Indiana. The exact parameters, depth, and/or reach of those negotiations being unknown.

What is known is negotiations is the stated reason for the Motion to move forward the date of KAK’s jury trial for the unrelated CSAM charges. I’m sorry, I’m just not getting how that would relate to Delphi proceedings. If he was negotiating a deal for charges he isn’t yet facing regarding Delphi, what impact would that have on these proceedings?

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

I-Team 8: There has been a lot of activity on this case today. Kegan Kline, 28, is a figure linked to the Delphi murders investigation, although he has not been charged in the deaths of Abby and Libby.(On) Kegan Kline, the prosecutor dismissed five charges. Is there any correlation between those charges being dropped and the search that was performed in the Wabash River? ?

Carter: No, absolutely not. I think he was charged with 30 counts, and they have dropped five, so it is 25. So, it is important the case has not been dropped against Kegan Kline.

 

[stattlich1]

What is known is negotiations is the stated reason for the Motion to move forward the date of KAK’s jury trial for the unrelated CSAM charges. I’m sorry, I’m just not getting how that would relate to Delphi proceedings. If he was negotiating a deal for charges he isn’t yet facing regarding Delphi, what impact would that have on these proceedings?

The possibilities are vast. We don't know the breadth, or scope, of what's really going on. I do think it's rather large in scope. Might there be overlap between Delphi. RA, KAK, a_shots, CSAM, other investigations unknown to us, etc? For me, I'm not willing to flat out deny the possibility.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The document I posted earlier, dated 11/8/2022, clearly states the parties are in negotiations.

MOO Yes, I just don't think it's significant as they have been in negotiations, off and on for nearly 2 years, so I don't see it as a new development, just business as usual.
Five charges that the prosecutor said lacked some evidence were dropped, so it sounds to me like refining the charges to take the strongest ones to trial. Many CSAM cases in Indiana in the last 7 years but nothing adding anything to KK charges.

The possibilities are vast.

Yes

 

[FrostedGlass]

MOO Yes, I just don't think it's significant as they have been in negotiations, off and on for nearly 2 years, so I don't see it as a new development, just business as usual.
Five charges that the prosecutor said lacked some evidence were dropped, so it sounds to me like refining the charges to take the strongest ones to trial. Many CSAM cases in Indiana in the last 7 years but nothing adding anything to KK charges.

Yes

In addition to dropping charges, they downgraded a number of other ones. All the level 4 felonies were dropped to level 5. All he has left are F5 and F6.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do we think BG saw Libby filming him?

I really don't. If he knew he was on film, I think he'd have made sure to take that phone with him or destroy it.

MOO

 

[Justice101]

Well, it may not be an 'official' plea deal.

A search would indicate KAK is working with investigators. He does have charges, but not charged with murder in this case.

Also, I've walked across similar bridges though not as high. The spacing of the wooden RR ties is such that it does not match your gait... too short for a baby step and too long to do a double step on every other tie.

It's awkward and not meant for people walking across.. just doesn't match their gait.