IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thank you for putting this up!
I wanted to use it in relation to my post, but of course couldn't find it .


He is eating. He exercises. He has showers and clean clothes.

He watches movies and has a tablet, etc etc.

He has a companion.

He listens to music.

I would add this interesting statement from that testimony.
So he apparently was doing OK and then…

“He testified that Allen started exhibiting “strange behavior” the day after he was given legal work, although he did not go into detail on the behavior or what that work was.”

Hmmmm….
 
Interesting how he gets Legal Work and suddenly starts behaving oddly. Almost like his team have told him the best bet is to go with the mental health route.


Also the whole weight loss thing I’m not sure if it’s So he just looks completely unrecognisable from Bridge dude. You look at him now and you think how was he capable of pulling this off as he looks so feeble.
 
Shay Hughes aka Hoosier Public Defender has some interesting comments on the hearing. For one, he thinks RA's decline is genuine.
One would think his decline would have happened after the 2 horrendous child murders that he did. But no! His decline is once he sees legal work. Must have been very damning! Poor guy must be scared to death! I don't feel one bit sorry for him!
 
In the courtroom Thursday, onlookers learned Allen has an electronic tablet to make phone calls from his prison cell, and the calls are monitored. In those calls, the prosecution said, Allen confessed five or six times to the murders of the girls.


BBM-Hmmmm...this report states RA confessed in recorded prison calls.
 
Hmmm.... People don't typically admit to crimes they don't commit. But, what were the words? Why is the defense arguing his "mental stae"? The prosecution has seemed confident. If their confidence is based on an admission, this would explain why.



I have a big problem with the statement " People don't typically admit to crimes they don't commit".

I guess we've forgotten Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. Our own prison system is filled with people who make false confessions all the time for one reason or another. I'm also going to need to hear or read exactly what he said and to whom. Jailhouse snitches are not the most reliable people in the world. RA's appalling condition makes me question everything.

Just ask the Innocence Project! I'm linking this story which I hope everyone takes a minute to read. False Confessions

There are even whole organizations dedicated to false confessions. Interresting stuff. Fact Sheet | False Confessions

And some more reading on the topic: False Confessions: Causes, Consequences, and Implications

I want justice for Abby and Libby as much as the next person! I really do! I'm just seeing things here that are raising BIG RED FLAGS!

** Just read the 'confessions' came from conversations that he had with people thru the tablet he uses. That's good. We should be able to see the context in which they were made! We'll see.
 
One would think his decline would have happened after the 2 horrendous child murders that he did. But no! His decline is once he sees legal work. Must have been very damning! Poor guy must be scared to death! I don't feel one bit sorry for him!
It's not about whether a person feels sorry for him or not. IMO his atty is laying the groundwork for the appeals that are sure to come if/when he's convicted. Rozzi is making a record of every one of his objections to RA's treatment.

This kind of statement irritates me. If you're going to detail strange behavior, by all means tell us why. I'm pretty sure they know.
“He testified that Allen started exhibiting “strange behavior” the day after he was given legal work, although he did not go into detail on the behavior or what that work was.”
 
Shay Hughes aka Hoosier Public Defender has some interesting comments on the hearing. For one, he thinks RA's decline is genuine.

One would think his decline would have happened after the 2 horrendous child murders that he did. But no! His decline is once he sees legal work. Must have been very damning! Poor guy must be scared to death! I don't feel one bit sorry for him!
MOO Of course, we don't have any idea of his mental state after the murders, a gradual decline may have been going on for years. The point is, does the prosecutor want to risk any kind of censure, lose evidence or face constitutional challenges in the eventual trial and/or appeals? I very much doubt that Shay Hughes feels sorry for RA, he is giving an educated opinion on what should be done (give RA the benefit of the doubt). I agree with Shay Hughes, he is far more knowledgeable about the workings of this Indiana court than anyone on WS. MOO
Were you just expressing your disgust for RA or was there meant to be an implication that someone felt sorry for RA?
 
"Richard Allen appears to have made incriminating statements connecting him to the murders of Libby German and Abby Williams."

I take back any previous defense I may have made of Allen. He is toast.

Playing devil's advocate and also giving the defendant the presumption of innocence he is entitled: Perhaps his "incriminating statements" merely back up previous statements, i.e. he was on the bridge, wore the clothing identified, saw the other witnesses, etc.

I know it's not a popular take. But I strongly believe in the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
 
I agree, it’s absolutely typical for a defence team to attempt to have critical evidence tossed and this has only just begun.


“Allen’s attorneys described the state’s evidence as “flimsy,” and they raised serious questions about the science used to establish a possible link between Allen’s gun and the unspent round found at the crime scene.

“The probable cause affidavit seems to suggest that a single magic bullet is proof of (Richard Allen’s) guilt. It is a bit premature to engage in any detailed discussions regarding the veracity of this evidence until more discovery is received, but it is safe to say that the discipline of tool-mark identification (ballistics) is anything but a science. The entire discipline has been under attack in courtrooms across this country as being unreliable and lacking any scientific validity,” defense attorneys Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin wrote in December, just before a judge issued a gag order in the murder case. “We anticipate a vigorous legal and factual challenge to any claims by the prosecution as to the reliability of its conclusions concerning the single magic bullet.”
Perhaps they also have additional items seized during the search that render the tool markings more substantiative - round from scene, gun AND perhaps, IMO, a round or two 9 or a partial box of ammunition of same manufacturer with same batch and lot number found during the search. We haven't seen everything they have yet.
 
One would think his decline would have happened after the 2 horrendous child murders that he did. But no! His decline is once he sees legal work. Must have been very damning! Poor guy must be scared to death! I don't feel one bit sorry for him!

This may be the most concise, to the point, forget the fluff statement made about this situation!
It should be on billboards across Indiana!
It is perfect!
 
MOO Of course, we don't have any idea of his mental state after the murders, a gradual decline may have been going on for years. The point is, does the prosecutor want to risk any kind of censure, lose evidence or face constitutional challenges in the eventual trial and/or appeals? I very much doubt that Shay Hughes feels sorry for RA, he is giving an educated opinion on what should be done (give RA the benefit of the doubt). I agree with Shay Hughes, he is far more knowledgeable about the workings of this Indiana court than anyone on WS. MOO
Were you just expressing your disgust for RA or was there meant to be an implication that someone felt sorry for RA?
Oh lol! I was expressing disgust.
And I agree with your post also. Moo
 
Why does everyone think his weight loss is anything other than an alcohol free diet? It just looks like he lost his beer belly because he’s not drinking.
Usually when an alcoholic stops drinking they gain weight. The loss of sugar from the alcohol, especially if it's just beer, result in the eating of sweets to compensate for the loss of sugar in their diet. Also the sweets will act as a stimulant replacing the 'buzz' of alcohol.
 
I am sure this is correct concerning his defense.
The judge however today heard testimony from the prison warden pretty much refuting every horror that the defense threw out in their emergency motion weeks ago so he is objecting to nothing it would seem.
The defense's only response to what the warden said, from what I have read, was to ask if other pre-trial defendants were housed at the prison. The answer was no.
So do you have no concern that any of the defense's complaints could be an issue later? Capt Lewis stated he'd never had a pretrial defendant housed there. We already know pretrial defendants almost universally stay in county jails.

They certainly didn't disprove that he is housed the same as a sentenced convicted inmate and they admitted a noticeable weight loss. They didn't disprove his meetings with attorneys were being monitored, with RA shackled and made to sit in the middle of a room facing the camera. This would not occur at a county jail. They didn't disprove the difficulty the attorneys have getting appointments and an adequate room to visit their client. Some admission of mental decline, even tho the claim was the onset was upon being given his "legal papers". Guards are not qualified to assess his mental decline.
I find it appalling that a judge had to issue an order to prohibit DOC from interfering with attorney-client meetings.
But I also realize the prison is not a place set up for defendants waiting for trial.

Are you convinced that there could never be an appeal or a consequence to this situation, so they should just carry on without concern?
This post is about the legal system and process, not personal feelings about the crime or defendant.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
162
Guests online
1,915
Total visitors
2,077

Forum statistics

Threads
601,558
Messages
18,126,164
Members
231,091
Latest member
OkCujo98
Back
Top