IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[CGBSpender]

While Cass Co. did say that they didn't want him, they said they would take him if the judge ordered it.

Off hand, I know of 2 counties who have the ability to isolate prisoners: Elkhart and Jackson. I've never looked into if every county has the ability to isolate an inmate.

Their options are pretty limited if they want him close to Logansport. Carroll and White have already said they can't do it. Howard is notoriously overcrowded, so they are probably not an option. I doubt Miami wants that headache, which would leave Fulton or Pulaski maybe if they had the resources?

 

[CGBSpender]

Why? I don't know how the process works.

A member of the Judge's staff likely would need to scan and upload the order to the CSM. Allen Co. Courts were also closed on the 19th for the Juneteenth holiday. Depending on how full the docket was the following days, and/or if clerks were on vacation...I can see it taking a few days to get orders uploaded and entered.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Their options are pretty limited if they want him close to Logansport. Carroll and White have already said they can't do it. Howard is notoriously overcrowded, so they are probably not an option. I doubt Miami wants that headache, which would leave Fulton or Pulaski maybe if they had the resources?

Good points, a lot of rural counties here would be in a bind handling RA, and yes he and his attorneys deserve to be in a reasonably close proximity, IMO.

Howard has enough problems, Kokomo is a city of almost 70,000 with major violent, drug, and property crime issues. They can't keep him too far from Carroll Cty, and quite frankly any care RA needs is available within the DOC, vs. county facilities here in IN which generally do a poor job of physical and mental health care.

 

[FrostedGlass]

A member of the Judge's staff likely would need to scan and upload the order to the CSM. Allen Co. Courts were also closed on the 19th for the Juneteenth holiday. Depending on how full the docket was the following days, and/or if clerks were on vacation...I can see it taking a few days to get orders uploaded and entered.

JMO

Thanks. The June 16th hearing took place in Delphi; wouldn't the person in that court be the one inputting the information or did the judge bring her staff?

In other cases I follow, some of the dockets are updated in real time and others have quite a lengthy delay. I never knew why.

As for other counties' abilities to handle RA, I'll repeat that Cass said they are logistically equipped to handle a defendant like RA, and would do so. We know White Co held him for several days, at least until 11/03 when the transfer to DOC was ordered. We don't know when he arrived at Westville. If we've heard comments from White Co., I've missed them.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hoosier Public Defender tweeted about a recent Maryland Supreme Court opinion regarding firearms/unspent rounds.
It's a long one = 128 pgs.

https://mdcourts.gov/data/opinions/coa/2023/10a22.pdf

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673346660041211911

 

[CGBSpender]

Thanks. The June 16th hearing took place in Delphi; wouldn't the person in that court be the one inputting the information or did the judge bring her staff?

In other cases I follow, some of the dockets are updated in real time and others have quite a lengthy delay. I never knew why.

As for other counties' abilities to handle RA, I'll repeat that Cass said they are logistically equipped to handle a defendant like RA, and would do so. We know White Co held him for several days, at least until 11/03 when the transfer to DOC was ordered. We don't know when he arrived at Westville. If we've heard comments from White Co., I've missed them.

It can depend on the availability of clerks. Sometimes there will be one in Court updating the CSM in real time, other times if things are busy, you might have a judge write the information in the file for entry later on. If it is something that is being e-filed by an attorney, those seem to be posted pretty quickly. Given the level of confidentiality, and desire for accuracy related to this case...I would not be surprised if the judge has the same one or two clerks (whether it be in Delphi or Ft Wayne) filing her court orders in the CSM (as opposed to the orders are not being dumped in the file and sent to the clerk's office for entry along with all of the other criminal case entries being uploaded).

It wouldn't be the worst decision to move him to Cass County...burdensome as it may be on Cass County. The easier it is for defense counsel to have lots of access to their client, the more difficult it becomes to make an ineffective assistance of counsel argument on appeal.

JMO

 

[CGBSpender]

Good points, a lot of rural counties here would be in a bind handling RA, and yes he and his attorneys deserve to be in a reasonably close proximity, IMO.

Howard has enough problems, Kokomo is a city of almost 70,000 with major violent, drug, and property crime issues. They can't keep him too far from Carroll Cty, and quite frankly any care RA needs is available within the DOC, vs. county facilities here in IN which generally do a poor job of physical and mental health care.

Other than Westville, I think Wabash Valley is the only other IDOC facility with "Secure Confinement Units" if that is what they feel is needed. It's a difficult decision to be sure.

I'm confused as to where the bulk of the risk is that LE is trying to avoid. It seems like the guy has like 8 or more US Marshals around him in full gear every time he is outside of Westville...yet, there doesn't seem to be any indication of actual threats made against him from what has been disclosed.

 

[arielilane]

Recent article; however, nothing new here:

Release of sealed records could shed new light on case against Richard Allen in Delphi murders

DELPHI, Ind. – This could be a landmark week for information in the Delphi murder case. Allen County Judge Frances Gull, assigned as a special judge to oversee the high-profile case, is expected to…

cbs4indy.com

Updated: Jun 26, 2023 / 05:00 PM EDT

DELPHI, Ind. – This could be a landmark week for information in the Delphi murder case. [...]

Documents under review include the unredacted probable cause affidavit, search warrant and search warrant return, motions regarding Allen’s pretrial incarceration and mental health history and examinations, and evidentiary challenges.

Some documents—such as Allen’s mental health records and privileged communications with his attorneys and wife—will remain under seal. [...]

The release of additional information in the case was spurred by a request from Kevin Greenlee, an attorney who co-hosts The Murder Sheet podcast.

[...] Allen County Judge Frances Gull, assigned as a special judge to oversee the high-profile case, is expected to unseal a trove of documents related to the case against Richard Allen.

[...] However, it appeared dozens of documents related to the case would be released this week. Gull said the court was reviewing more than 130 court filings. She initially anticipated they would be released last week, but the review of those documents apparently took longer than anticipated. [...]

Documents under review include the unredacted probable cause affidavit, search warrant and search warrant return, motions regarding Allen’s pretrial incarceration and mental health history and examinations, and evidentiary challenges.

Some documents—such as Allen’s mental health records and privileged communications with his attorneys and wife—will remain under seal.

The release of additional information in the case was spurred by a request from Kevin Greenlee, an attorney who co-hosts The Murder Sheet podcast.

 

[Niner]

@Niner From your notes: The State will be calling two witnesses after lunch. One or both witnesses will be testifying to ADMISSIONS OF GUILT allegedly made by RA while being detained. Did you happen to get the names of those witnesses?

The State called to the stand Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett & from the Westville Correctional Facility Captain John Galipeau.

^^from my notes. So they are probably on page 39 or 40 on the link in my last post.

 

[FromGermany1]

Other than Westville, I think Wabash Valley is the only other IDOC facility with "Secure Confinement Units" if that is what they feel is needed. It's a difficult decision to be sure.

I'm confused as to where the bulk of the risk is that LE is trying to avoid. It seems like the guy has like 8 or more US Marshals around him in full gear every time he is outside of Westville...yet, there doesn't seem to be any indication of actual threats made against him from what has been disclosed.

I would like to know, if RA is afraid to be kidnapped or to be murdered, while he is leaving a vehicle during transport from A to B. If so: fear of accomplices (to silence him) or relatives of the girls or outraged citizens?

 

[FrostedGlass]

The State called to the stand Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett & from the Westville Correctional Facility Captain John Galipeau.

^^from my notes. So they are probably on page 39 or 40 on the link in my last post.

Yes, but we didn't hear anything about RA's admissions of guilt. I wonder if someone did testify but it was kept secret either by the court or by the news.

"One or both witnesses will be testifying to ADMISSIONS OF GUILT allegedly made by RA while being detained."

 

[girlhasnoname]

Well then, if he's convicted he's dead, too. If he was your loved one, I'd think you would want him close where you could visit often and keep your eye on things.

Aren't you even the least bit curious why they won't let him go to Cass Co. jail?

Evidence of his alleged mistreatment at Westerville was presented to the Judge during the last hearing both by the Defense and the State. The Emergency Motion to Transfer was requested by the defense in early April IIRC.

There is no doubt in my mind that if this Judge had one inkling that this Defendant was being subjected to inhumane treatment, RA would have been moved already. Of course I'm curious about all thing pertaining to RA, but I trust the decision made by the Judge who is the weigher of facts, not biased to the Prosecution or the Defense.

ALL MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Other than Westville, I think Wabash Valley is the only other IDOC facility with "Secure Confinement Units" if that is what they feel is needed. It's a difficult decision to be sure.

I'm confused as to where the bulk of the risk is that LE is trying to avoid. It seems like the guy has like 8 or more US Marshals around him in full gear every time he is outside of Westville...yet, there doesn't seem to be any indication of actual threats made against him from what has been disclosed.

I think the key words are in your last sentence 'from what has been disclosed'. We the public have no idea what threats RA might be receiving either from other inmates, outsiders, or even himself (if suicidal). The prison could be receiving regular death threats, bomb threats even regarding RA.

He is a high profile/risk Defendant that needs 24 hour protection from himself and others IMO.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hoosier Public Defender tweeted about a recent Maryland Supreme Court opinion regarding firearms/unspent rounds.
It's a long one = 128 pgs.

https://mdcourts.gov/data/opinions/coa/2023/10a22.pdf

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673346660041211911

The biggest issue addressed here is that the State used an Unqualified Firearms Examiner. I bet the State of IN will have the most qualified expert(s) available. MOO

<snipped & BBM>

At the trial of the petitioner, Kobina Ebo Abruquah, the Circuit Court for Prince George’s County permitted a firearms examiner to testify, without qualification, that bullets left at a murder scene were fired from a gun that Mr. Abruquah had acknowledged was his. Based on reports, studies, and testimony calling into question the reliability of firearms identification analysis, Mr. Abruquah contends that the circuit court abused its discretion in permitting the firearms examiner’s testimony.

 

[FrostedGlass]

...
It wouldn't be the worst decision to move him to Cass County...burdensome as it may be on Cass County. The easier it is for defense counsel to have lots of access to their client, the more difficult it becomes to make an ineffective assistance of counsel argument on appeal.

JMO

snipped for focus

You bring up a good point about appeal. How do you think the Supreme Court would decide on his current incarceration versus a county jail that could house him? How about LE moving him twice without council?
Ineffective council: he's 6 months away from his trial date and his attys are still asking for him to be moved closer.

I recently saw the difference between the usual defense atty and a really good one. I think RS's defense is making a good basis for the appeal.

 

[MistyWaters]

snipped for focus

You bring up a good point about appeal. How do you think the Supreme Court would decide on his current incarceration versus a county jail that could house him? How about LE moving him twice without council?
Ineffective council: he's 6 months away from his trial date and his attys are still asking for him to be moved closer.

I recently saw the difference between the usual defense atty and a really good one. I think RS's defense is making a good basis for the appeal.

If RA’s current defense team know they will not be effective, they‘d be best to resign prior to the commencement to the trial. They knew where was RA was housed prior to their acceptance of the job and it wasn’t an issue then, is it still now and if so why wasn’t it brought to attention of the judge as a stand alone point instead of being tossed in along with the dog kennel and prisoner of war.

Why is RA “too far”? It’s not as if daily meetings are required for a defence to build a defence strategy. As he proclaimed he is not guilty (prior to his confessions) their job is to poke holes in the evidence the prosecution will be using to attempt to prove his guilt. Most often that’s through legal arguments, why defendants require the services of trained lawyers and in RA’s case, has been appointed to represent him.

However due to his alleged confessions is he still going to proceed with the not guilty plea? That has to be a primary issue to his defence team at this time because how can he plead Not Guilty at a trial after admitting his guilt? I think that’s a hugely significant factor still looming, making the location or nature of his current incarceration or any future appeals of a guilty verdict a moot point.

"Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" in California

In California, ineffective assistance of counsel is a claim by a criminal defendant that their attorney failed to perform in a reasonably competent manner.

www.shouselaw.com

There are three remedies if a court finds that a counsel was ineffective. Depending on when the ineffectiveness occurs in a case, a court may:

1. appoint a new defense counsel,
2. if a trial concluded, reverse any guilty verdict and order a new trial, or
3. vacate a sentence and resentence the defendant.

 

[FrostedGlass]

If RA’s current defense team know they will not be effective, they‘d be best to resign prior to the commencement to the trial. They knew where was RA was housed prior to their acceptance of the job and it wasn’t an issue then, is it still now?

Why is RA “too far”? It’s not as if daily meetings are required for a defence to build a defence strategy. As he proclaimed he is not guilty (prior to his confessions) their job is to poke holes in the evidence the prosecution will be using to attempt to prove his guilt. Most often that’s through legal arguments, why defendants require the services of trained lawyers and in RA’s case, appointed to represent him.

However due to his alleged confessions is he still going to proceed with the not guilty plea, I think that’s a hugely significant factor still looming, making the location or nature of his current incarceration or any future appeals of a guilty verdict a moot point.

"Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" in California

In California, ineffective assistance of counsel is a claim by a criminal defendant that their attorney failed to perform in a reasonably competent manner.

www.shouselaw.com

There are three remedies if a court finds that a counsel was ineffective. Depending on when the ineffectiveness occurs in a case, a court may:

1. appoint a new defense counsel,
2. if a trial concluded, reverse any guilty verdict and order a new trial, or
3. vacate a sentence and resentence the defendant.

Since what has happened to RA hasn't happened before in Indiana, I suspect it was his attys' plan from the beginning to get him moved. In all fairness, they walked into a ton of papers to wade through, unlike prosecution who has had a lot of discovery in their possession for months/years.

Since he seemed to be ok for a while, moving him may not have been a priority during that brief period of time. He was there for a couple of months before he started showing a decline, according to reports.

So, regarding the remedies, are they preferable to just moving him closer to his council?

 

[Boxer]

The biggest issue addressed here is that the State used an Unqualified Firearms Examiner. I bet the State of IN will have the most qualified expert(s) available. MOO

<snipped & BBM>

At the trial of the petitioner, Kobina Ebo Abruquah, the Circuit Court for Prince George’s County permitted a firearms examiner to testify, without qualification, that bullets left at a murder scene were fired from a gun that Mr. Abruquah had acknowledged was his. Based on reports, studies, and testimony calling into question the reliability of firearms identification analysis, Mr. Abruquah contends that the circuit court abused its discretion in permitting the firearms examiner’s testimony.

Yes. A different issue. Not about tool marks, rather about qualifications of the expert.

 

[scapa]

The biggest issue addressed here is that the State used an Unqualified Firearms Examiner. I bet the State of IN will have the most qualified expert(s) available. MOO

<snipped & BBM>

At the trial of the petitioner, Kobina Ebo Abruquah, the Circuit Court for Prince George’s County permitted a firearms examiner to testify, without qualification, that bullets left at a murder scene were fired from a gun that Mr. Abruquah had acknowledged was his. Based on reports, studies, and testimony calling into question the reliability of firearms identification analysis, Mr. Abruquah contends that the circuit court abused its discretion in permitting the firearms examiner’s testimony.

I'm a bit confused here -- is this a question of an unqualified examiner, or a examiner testifying, without qualification, that X?

In the first case, the examiner is herself lacking qualifications; in the second, examiner (qualified or not) is expressing an opinion in the absolute without quantifying that claim appropriately -- "In my opinion, and based on X examinations in similar cases, I believe with Y degree of certainty that this bullet came from Mr A's gun.

I can't make out from Hoosier's posts just what the issue is.

 

[MistyWaters]

Since what has happened to RA hasn't happened before in Indiana, I suspect it was his attys' plan from the beginning to get him moved. In all fairness, they walked into a ton of papers to wade through, unlike prosecution who has had a lot of discovery in their possession for months/years.

Since he seemed to be ok for a while, moving him may not have been a priority during that brief period of time. He was there for a couple of months before he started showing a decline, according to reports.

So, regarding the remedies, are they preferable to just moving him closer to his council?

By all accounts any need to move him has been proven to be grossly exaggerated, really no surprise given the sensationalized tone of that motion.

The underlying purpose of the motion may even have been a desperate response to get something/anything on record in order to mitigate RA‘s acknowledgement of his guilt, however at this time we don’t know which came first or later. All par for the course, the games that attorneys play….this is barely the beginning IMO.