IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[CGBSpender]

They said the phone was found "in the area" of the CS.
Yes, I hope she ditched it secretly or hurled when he wasnt looking, and becane unfindable in the leaf litter.
Maybe looking for that phone is why BG stayed at the CS so long...until he heard the calling of DG and knew the search was on.
LGs phone did ring through for DG on first try at Wilson Bridge then went to vm for calls after, but the phone could have been on no ring, silent/no vibrate.

Except that the last successful ping is said to have been at 5:30pm, so the phone would have had to have been either shut off, or the battery dead at that point. Any other scenario and they should have been able to continue to ping it.

 

[Falling Down]

In this linked MS podcast before the current one, Rozzi asks Tony Liggett: "Did you ever go to Westville to see the conditions Richard Allen was kept under?"
Liggett answered: "Yes, I have been to Westville. I went there to try to interview Richard Allen.' He (TL) went on to say the interview didn't happen. MS said by the looks of surprise at the defense table, they believed defense didn't have any idea that TL tried to interview their client.

So how does anyone in law enforcement think they can interview an inmate, for any reason, without their atty present?

The Delphi Murders: Possible Confessions, Due Process, and Public Access to Court Filings

On June 15, 2023, major news about the Delphi murders broke. In a due process hearing, defense and prosecution each confirmed that Richard Allen made incriminating statements about the case. Judge Fran Gull also indicated that she will rule in favor of The Murder Sheet's motion to provide more...

art19.com

I'm curious as to why the deputy would go to Westville. Now certainly LE may visit an inmate at a county jail or prison to interview people as part of an ongoing investigation, the inmate then has to decide if they want an attorney present.

 

[twall]

I'm curious as to why the deputy would go to Westville. Now certainly LE may visit an inmate at a county jail or prison to interview people as part of an ongoing investigation, the inmate then has to decide if they want an attorney present.

Right, you either waive your Miranda rights and talk (with or without an attorney) or invoke your right to remain silent.

 

[twall]

There's a lot to talk about today.

First is the IN DOC motion to quash. Is that about RA's medical reports or something else? And what about the document filed by Carroll Co. sheriff's dept? Can't imagine what that could be.

Will the judge actually make the unsealed docs available to the public with a click of the mouse or will we still have to go the the county where the case is or buy the documents online?

MS talked a lot about Robert Baston without making any kind of a solid guess as to what role he's playing. Is he the companion who may also be snitching on RA? Or is he the inmate who wrote the letter to the court, which may be backing up RA's atty's comments about prison conditions?

I will look for the article when I get home and on my laptop but I recall it being reported Judge FG said the documents will be available on an Allen County website.

Did the most recent MS episode talk about RB ? I have not listened yet.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I would like to know the date TL tried to interview RA. Was it early on before RA had council appointed?

Rozzi asked Leazonby that question first, then he asked Liggett.

MS called that a big NO, NO so I concluded it was after RA got his atty. RA's prison conditions didn't become an issue right away, iirc.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I will look for the article when I get home and on my laptop but I recall it being reported Judge FG said the documents will be available on an Allen County website.

Did the most recent MS episode talk about RB ? I have not listened yet.

Yes, they did talk about him.

 

[CGBSpender]

MS brought up the Mike Thomas case again. Somehow Liggett is named but he isn't named as one of the 4 parties. I don't know what to make of the latest filing. Maybe one of our members can explain what's happening here.

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Friday, June 16, 2023
38		3 pgs order Opinion and Order Order Striking Document ~Util - Set Deadlines Fri 06/16 3:13 PM OPINION AND ORDER: The Court STRIKES the Stipulation of Dismissal with Prejudice as to Defendants Carroll County, Indiana, and Tobias Leazenby, in his Individual Capacity and Official Capacity as Sheriff of Carroll County, Indiana, Only37 . The Court SETS a deadline of 06/29/2023, for either (1) the Plaintiff to file a second amended complaint pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 15(a)(2), to drop Defendants Carroll County, Indiana, Tobias Leazenby, and Tony Liggett and to proceed only against the Carroll County Sheriff's Office or (2) the parties to file a stipulation of dismissal that includes Defendant Carroll County Sheriff's Office. Signed by Judge Theresa L Springmann on 06/16/2023. (jdb)
Friday, June 09, 2023
37		motion Stipulation to Dismiss Fri 06/09 4:23 PM Joint STIPULATION to Dismiss Carroll County, Leazenby, Liggett, only with PREJUDICE by Defendant Carroll County, Indiana. (Hughes, Samuel)
Thursday, May 18, 2023
36		order Order ~Util - Set Deadlines Thu 05/18 11:25 AM ORDER: Parties directed to file dismissal papers by 7/3/2023 re35 Joint Notice of Settlement Pursuant to Local Rule 16-1(g). By Magistrate Judge Andrew P Rodovich on 5/18/2023. Text entry only. (tc)

In a nutshell it looks an error was probably made in Doc 37, because it doesn't make sense when looked at in conjunction with previous filings. The Court basically is telling the parties to either correct Doc 37, or file an amendment if they intend something different. It is likely 37 will be corrected before June 29, 2023, and the case will be dismissed against all parties (it looks like this is the intent from prior filings...but again, there is language missing in doc 37 that has the Court confused).

 

[FrostedGlass]

In a nutshell it looks an error was probably made in Doc 37, because it doesn't make sense when looked at in conjunction with previous filings. The Court basically is telling the parties to either correct Doc 37, or file an amendment if they intend something different. It is likely 37 will be corrected before June 29, 2023, and the case will be dismissed against all parties (it looks like this is the intent from prior filings...but again, there is language missing in doc 37 that has the Court confused).

Thanks for the reply. I didn't know if the dismissed "with prejudice" is the issue or if the issue is with the 'parties'.

While I was searching for TL, this popped up.

Thomas v. Carroll Cnty., 2:22-CV-309-TLS-APR | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Thomas v. Carroll Cnty., 2:22-CV-309-TLS-APR, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

 

[CGBSpender]

Rozzi asked Leazonby that question first, then he asked Liggett.

MS called that a big NO, NO so I concluded it was after RA got his atty. RA's prison conditions didn't become an issue right away, iirc.

If RA were housed in Carroll Co., LE would probably be talking to him quite frequently...how's the weather? are you in need of medical help? did you see who the Colts just drafted? Having a lawyer doesn't prevent LE from talking to an inmate about everything, it just prevents them from talking about things related to the case they are charged in. I'm not sure there is enough info at this point to determine whether or not you could call whatever took place a "big NO NO".

MOO

 

[CGBSpender]

I'm interested in the Motion to Suppress filed on 05/19/2023. I hope they unseal it. I'd like to know what argument the defense is making to support the motion. I didn't think one could argue to suppress an admission simply because the statement was allegedly made while mentally unstable (I could be wrong). I do think that one can argue that admissions can be suppressed if it was obtained by the illegal conduct of law enforcement officers. Is the defense arguing that the treatment in prison by officers was illegal, which caused the mental state and resulted in the admission...and thus the admission should be suppressed on that basis? I'm confused on what the arguments are and what the Court is deciding.

Also, if the defense is arguing that the prison environment lead to an unstable mental state...doesn't that then mean that the defendant has at some point actually demonstrated mentally stability...and is capable of being mentally stable...otherwise how can one argue that the prison environment is the cause of the situation? It seems like this line of reasoning kind of makes it hard to argue in the future that the defendant is unable to achieve (if the alleged environmental factors causing the condition are corrected) the necessary mental state to stand trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm curious as to why the deputy would go to Westville. Now certainly LE may visit an inmate at a county jail or prison to interview people as part of an ongoing investigation, the inmate then has to decide if they want an attorney present.

Maybe RA reached out to LE to 'talk' and then changed his mind?

 

[CGBSpender]

I'm curious as to why the deputy would go to Westville. Now certainly LE may visit an inmate at a county jail or prison to interview people as part of an ongoing investigation, the inmate then has to decide if they want an attorney present.

I was thinking that maybe the CCSO is still ultimately responsible for his safety and well being, even though they have placed him in an IDOC facility to protect him...that they may have some duty to verify from time to time that his needs are being met by IDOC? IDOC may have agreed to house him, but I'm not sure that would allow the CCSO to wash their hands of having to be responsible for him entirely.

 

[twall]

I will look for the article when I get home and on my laptop but I recall it being reported Judge FG said the documents will be available on an Allen County website.

Did the most recent MS episode talk about RB ? I have not listened yet.

Replying to myself-not sure if this is what I recall seeing, I watched so many reports last week and I don't want to spend all night on it when the media will be the first to get the details on when/where/how to get the documents.

Russ McQuaid says in the video @ 2:53 "Judge FG will unveil a website, a portal, to unseal many of the sealed and secret documents that have been part of this case from the very start and even the reasons why RA was arrested and we expect that website to be unveiled next week..."

Prosecutor: Richard Allen ‘confessed 5 or 6 times’ to Delphi murders

DELPHI, Ind. – Prosecutor Nick McLeland said in court Thursday that Richard Allen “confessed five or six times” that he killed best friends Abby Williams and Libby German on remote hist…

www.wane.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here's a shortened version of RA's movements. If Liggett went up for an interview, he had a very short period of time in which to do it before RA got an attorney.

10/28 Friday
Case Opened

11/03/2022 Thursday
Order Issued
Order Re: Sheriff's Request for Safekeeping entered, per form.

11/09/2022 Wed.
Correspondence to/from Court Filed
Correspondence received from Defendant requesting appointment of public defender.
Filed By:Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp:11/09/2022

04/05/2023
Motion Filed
Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping Order
Filed By:Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp:04/05/2023

 

[photographer4]

That's my fear.
That he will say he could have dropped that bullet on a prior visit to the death scene

OK, then he would have to explain WHY he was at the death scene previously, and WHEN? I'd like to know if the police had to use metal detectors at all to locate this bullet? Was it buried below by any depth? Or was it plainly visible to the police immediately? What condition was it in? Shiny? New? Any signs of how long it had perhaps been left out there??

 

[photographer4]

I wonder if this trial might go the way of the Stauch one. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity defense. If his confessions are solid, the defense may have no other legal recourse than to try for NGRI. That he suffered psychosis and didn't know what he was doing. Suddenly thought he was in Nam. Or his other identities did it. It won't fly because of his behaviors before and after, especially if the Prosecution can establish an online link, via catfishing and CSAM but the defense may be forced to concede he did it, he just wasn't in his right mind when he did.

Varies by state, I think, but I wonder if the defense would have to prove insanity to a jury or if the prosecution has to prove sanity...

Either way, I hope he is kept safe from himself, conditions and others so he's alive and healthy to face a full jury of his peers.

Jmo

Alive and healthy maybe, but mentally competent? I could see him being declared unfit to stand trial... even if it is a B.S act. Ugh.

 

[photographer4]

IIRC Told the police he had never been on RL's property, and that he never loaned his gun to anyone.

Could he have been there, not been *aware* of the property line? Were there private property signs posted / no trespassing signs to alert people that it was not part of the trail? Is it possible that he simply didn't know he was on RL's property (if infact he ever was at some point?)

 

[photographer4]

Could he have been on it while not knowing it was RL's property or dropped bullet on a prior visit to a nearby area and weather took it to where bodies of girls were located?

I'm just waffling really.
i think his internet searches might go towards explaining his actions.

what beliefs does he hold that facilitated this brutal double murder?
what did he gain?
i remember googling cults and satanic rituals and dates and everything that could go towards explaining a staged death scene.
I came up empty.
Completely empty and I spent days on it.

There might be things I missed cos went blind from searching ritualistic dates and meanings... amount of awol stuff out there is hardcore.

i also searched the less well known anti gov cult sites but found nothing.

It's hard to understand this incident without context in an apparently otherwise normal happy fulfilled life , isn't it?

There simply MUST be a context.

I think he *could* have been on that property at some point without ever realizing it until after the girls were murdered. His bullet though? I go to this: could he have been framed? Could someone have taken that bullet in gloved hands and placed it there with the girls for some reason? We don't know. I hope one day we find out. Why would someone do this? How would they pull this off? No idea. Its a wild idea and I have no idea if it could have gone down this way.

Perhaps the better questions to ask might be:
-> what motive might someone have to frame him?
-> what ideas / theories have been ruled out by LE and can they prove things didn't happen X way? If so, how can they prove it?
-> if police thought someone else was involved (and they clearly did given the sealing of docs at the beginning of the trial), then why has no one else been charged to date?
-> anyone else brought in for questioning after RA's arrest?
-> who might have even been able to get access to his gun / bullets and how?
-> has he ever walked that general area with someone else before? if so, who? when? why?

 

[Boxer]

Good questions.

C.R. 200 crosses over the highway near where he lived, it intersects with the main drag through Delphi by there. He could've taken 200 to 425 to 300.

JMO

Could he have been there, not been *aware* of the property line? Were there private property signs posted / no trespassing signs to alert people that it was not part of the trail? Is it possible that he simply didn't know he was on RL's property (if infact he ever was at some point?)

MOO Doubt it. The whole trail is an old raiload bed.
Leaving it is very obvious. The place (the CS) the round was found was/is difficult to get to.
The brass of a round left at an earlier time would tarnish in a fairly predictable way, pointing to approximatley how long it was exposed to the elements.

 

[Boxer]

Could he have been there, not been *aware* of the property line? Were there private property signs posted / no trespassing signs to alert people that it was not part of the trail? Is it possible that he simply didn't know he was on RL's property (if infact he ever was at some point?)

MOO
Leaving the trail would be is very obvious, memorable.
The place (the CS) the round was found was/is difficult to get to.
The brass of a round left at an earlier time would tarnish in a fairly predictable way, pointing to approximately how long it had been exposed to the elements.