IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[Falling Down]

And he seemingly didn't drive this same route home because the PCA didn't mention footage of his car leaving, going east past HH cameras. That's always seemed odd to me since you'd think he would go the quickest rural route home, seeing as how he was muddy and bloody. Of course, there is a lot we don't know, too, like where he went after the murders, which route, etc.

If the murders were planned, I've sometimes wondered if maybe before the murders that afternoon, he actually did drive up the private road that goes under the south end of the bridge. It's right off of 200 and very close to his house. Maybe there was a reason he decided not to park on that road, so since he was already on 200, he ended up driving around the way you mention, 200 to 425 to 300 to park at the CPS lot. Just a thought.

My understanding is the gate was locked, as 625 becomes a private drive west of the bridge. A family member of the property owner went there to pick up mail roughly 3:30 timeframe, so they would have unlocked the gate at that time

 

[TL4S]

My understanding is the gate was locked, as 625 becomes a private drive west of the bridge. A family member of the property owner went there to pick up mail roughly 3:30 timeframe, so they would have unlocked the gate at that time

That's interesting. I'd never heard that before. So the gate isn't right at 200, but it becomes private father north on 625?

If he did drive up that road, that would be a reason to decide not to park there. Or maybe he already knew about the gate so never tried.

 

[Falling Down]

That's interesting. I'd never heard that before. So the gate isn't right at 200, but it becomes private father north on 625?

Image from Google Maps, please disregard the grid lines. Circled area is generally where the gate is located. On Google Maps the length of the road is shown as C.R. 625, and the address is on that road. However it turns into a private road along there.

 

[TL4S]

Image from Google Maps, please disregard the grid lines. Circled area is generally where the gate is located. On Google Maps the length of the road is shown as C.R. 625, and the address is on that road. However it turns into a private road along there.

Thank you for explaining this! I always heard it called a private drive but didn't know where it started. Years of discussion and wondering why he didn't park there...that seems like a good reason, imo. I would assume locals knew about the gate, too.

 

[Falling Down]

Thank you for explaining this! I always heard it called a private drive but didn't know where it started. Years of discussion and wondering why he didn't park there...that seems like a good reason, imo. I would assume locals knew about the gate, too.

Also LE have never indicated there was a C.R. 625 connection, they emphasized the CPS building and made references to C.R. 300.

The gate would be by the top of the gorge, near a house on the west side of 625. Then the drive dips way down into the gorge before it goes under the bridge, from the gate to directly under MHB is probably a 50 foot drop.

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's funny how we can all read or hear the same words and get different meaning out of it. I took Holeman's words as tacit confirmation that females were targeted (hinting at sexual motivation) but then he immediately realized he said too much and added in the caveat that anybody can be a victim. In this particular case, I believe LE was determined not to reveal what he did at that crime scene - not only to protect the integrity of the investigation but also because they were not going to give him the satisfaction of knowing that any detail of what he did to them was public knowledge. Having that info out there is another way of terrorizing the community and victimizing the families all over again. JMO..

I thought drugs were involved because so many terrible crimes are drug-related. So I interpreted his statement as confirmation that anyone could have been murdered, even a male... therefore not sex-related. Although, now that I think of it, being male wouldn't necessarily rule out sex.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This is a screen cap from the flyover video. I've always wondered why LE chose that particular area in which to park. Why not under the bridge or at least closer to it? Is there an easy way down that we don't know about?

We're over the search area where two 13-year-old Carroll County girls went missing. Two bodies have been found in the area, but not yet positively... | By WRTVFacebook

We're over the search area where two 13-year-old Carroll County girls went missing. Two bodies have been found in the area, but not yet positively...

www.facebook.com

 

[TL4S]

This is a screen cap from the flyover video. I've always wondered why LE chose that particular area in which to park. Why not under the bridge or at least closer to it? Is there an easy way down that we don't know about?

View attachment 435515

We're over the search area where two 13-year-old Carroll County girls went missing. Two bodies have been found in the area, but not yet positively... | By WRTVFacebook

We're over the search area where two 13-year-old Carroll County girls went missing. Two bodies have been found in the area, but not yet positively...

www.facebook.com

Was this from before or after they knew about the bridge video?

 

[Justice101]

Was this from before or after they knew about the bridge video?

This was way before the phone was recovered and played. This screen capture was the 1st day of the investigation when the girls were found. LE parked on both sides of Deer Creek... near the cemetery on the north side and on that dirt private driveway... so they had easy access to BOTH SIDES of Deer Creek adjacent to where the crime scene was.

 

[TL4S]

This was way before the phone was recovered and played. This screen capture was the 1st day of the investigation when the girls were found. LE parked on both sides of Deer Creek... near the cemetery on the north side and on that dirt private driveway... so they had easy access to BOTH SIDES of Deer Creek adjacent to where the crime scene was.

Oh, yes, the chopper video. I don't know why I wasn't getting that. Anyway, I remember on that day, LE had officers blockading 645 at 200, plus 300 at the entrance near I-25. I don't know if they blockaded anywhere east on 300.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Oh, yes, the chopper video. I don't know why I wasn't getting that. Anyway, I remember on that day, LE had officers blockading 645 at 200, plus 300 at the entrance near I-25. I don't know if they blockaded anywhere east on 300.

Same. We've been following along for 6 years, I've remembered and forgotten more than I can imagine. It's been a long case to follow with many twists and turns.

I thankfully believe they have BG aka RA aka murderer in custody. Just awaiting the day he is judged and convicted by a jury of his peers. I have had a nagging feeling about RA not making it to trial, not wanting for the reprehensible behavior to come to light. I do think he is a suicide risk, but I could be totally wrong.

ALL MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

This was way before the phone was recovered and played. This screen capture was the 1st day of the investigation when the girls were found. LE parked on both sides of Deer Creek... near the cemetery on the north side and on that dirt private driveway... so they had easy access to BOTH SIDES of Deer Creek adjacent to where the crime scene was.

Have we ever seen a time stamp for the chopper footage? I thought they had already found the bodies and had searchers on both sides of the creek. They likely had the phone as soon as they moved the bodies; was it broken?

Did we ever hear when the bodies were removed? Before or after the flyover?

 

[TL4S]

Have we ever seen a time stamp for the chopper footage? I thought they had already found the bodies and had searchers on both sides of the creek. They likely had the phone as soon as they moved the bodies; was it broken?

Did we ever hear when the bodies were removed? Before or after the flyover?

When the girls were still missing, LE was already aware about the bridge photo of A, iirc, per one of their friends, right?

 

[FrostedGlass]

When the girls were still missing, LE was already aware about the bridge photo of A, iirc, per one of there friends, right?

It's been so long, this old info seems like new. I may have to go find the transcript again in my spare time.

I guess I assumed LE would want to go down to the creek and wondered if they found an easy way down from where they parked.

 

[CGBSpender]

My thoughts after reading everyone's posts on the exit/entry routes and parking...

Entry/Parking- The killer likely parked and entered on property all owned by State or Local governments (no private properties or company owned properties). This limits the likelihood of encountering trail cameras IMO. Backing into the CPS building limits others parking near and getting a good look at the car/plate, since others hiking from Freedom Bridge will likely park in the lot on the west side of SR25.

Route to the Bridge- I don't think it is enough for the killer to know who is on the trails at that time beginning at the Mears lot entrance. I think he needs to start his plan/crime at the Freedom bridge in order to surveil who is on the entirety of the trails, what direction they are going, and whether or not they might be a problem for him in terms of location/timing.

Other Parking - As other have said he would encounter a locked gate eventually at 625W, and risks trail cameras on private property, so that is not a good option for the killer. The cemetery is too close to the crime scene to park IMO, too visible as well. RL was home at the time and anyone visiting his property, or visiting the graves in the cemetery would get a good look at the car. There is no reason for anyone to be at the CPS building, so the only risk of parking there is someone's dash cam footage traveling that area, or someone working on that end of The Anderson's taking notice. CPS is the less risky place to leave a vehicle IMO.

Exit- The killer can't go back the way they entered, too much risk. Exiting via the cemetery is risky in the event someone happened to be there visiting a grave, or saw him in that area. My thought is that the killer may have walked east and exited north to 300N via the little canyon/cave like area that lies to the east of RL's house and to the west of the houses on 575....or perhaps ever further east than that.

Like others, I don't understand how he gets from 300N back to the CPS lot without being captured on the HHS security camera or seen by more than just one witness (maybe he was and we just don't know it yet?). Nothing released so far tells us where on 300N he was seen. Did he have a prearranged ride back to the CPS lot at the conclusion of his "hike" with a friend or family member who bought whatever story he gave about why he was muddy/bloody?

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

When the girls were still missing, LE was already aware about the bridge photo of A, iirc, per one of their friends, right?

That’s how I remember it.
People were initially searching the trails which would have included around the MHB, but the Snapchat photo of Abby confirmed exactly where they were about an hour before DG started calling Libby.

 

[CGBSpender]

It's been so long, this old info seems like new. I may have to go find the transcript again in my spare time.

I guess I assumed LE would want to go down to the creek and wondered if they found an easy way down from where they parked.

This is kind of what I was thinking...that perhaps some of the officers brought in to search the creek for evidence parked off of 625W, and entered the creek from that direction with their gear so as not to have more people than necessary walking in the area where the bodies were found, and where they were trying to collect evidence?

JMO

 

[Justice101]

That’s how I remember it.
People were initially searching the trails which would have included around the MHB, but the Snapchat photo of Abby confirmed exactly where they were about an hour before DG started calling Libby.

The obvious search area was the creek and especially under the bridge assuming they had fallen off the bridge....and then looking downstream.

that's why they weren't found the night before.. because they did not search upstream

 

[M. Kay]

Yes, thanks for the link, I hadn't seen it cited either! Can someone again explain exactly what this means he did at the end of the bridge and how that would relate to the unspent round at the CS?

I'm repeating a comment I contribute occasionally when a subject comes around again, for some newer to the conversation. Anna Williams spoke to a TV reporter early on, and the video of her was available online years ago. Abby's mother listened to the phone recording on the bridge up to a certain point,-- then chose not to listen after the gun was mentioned. Mostly she said (something like) she didn't want to hear more of her daughter being so fearful.
We'll discover more in court, yet so sad, may be too much for now..

 

[schooling]

If RA scared them once by chambering a round on the bridge...

It’s not out of the realm of possibility that he repeated the trick down below. Chambering yet another round to show them he was serious and to get them to comply.

The second chambered round would have ejected the first.

In the heat of that moment, not realizing the implications of what he had just done, he lost sight of it.

From there you can imagine he either searched for it or realized what he had done after it was far too late.

This explanation is the simplest and takes into account that RA is a total coward who would have likely never fired that gun out of self preservation and fear of getting caught.

MOO