IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[Justice101]

I don't think it's over the top necessarily, I think he is at substantial risk of someone trying to harm him. RA is accused of an extremely high profile, horrific double homicide of beautiful, innocent young girls which had gripped the entire country for a long time. BG was the "Bogey Man" IMO

The fact that he was living in their own town, under their very own noses for 6 years without being caught has got to make matters worse and local tempers flared. I'm not local, but mine is flared.

I say err on the side of caution here. I believe that's why is guarded 24/7 at Westerville as well. Keep him safe, get him to trial and let a jury of his peers find him guilty and lock this animal away forever or worse.

JUST MOO

And killers who killed children are treated especially harshly by the prison population.

It's one thing that even the majority of prisoners can't even tolerate.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

According to the docs supporting the search warrant that were recently released, the girls were killed with a knife. There is nothing in the PCA charging him that says he had a knife and/or killed them with a knife. The PCA has him on the bridge with them, ordering them down, and then puts an unspent bullet allegedly from his gun near the bodies...nothing about a knife...nothing about his DNA on any victim or evidence at the scene that he touched either victim. I feel like if they could put him at the scene with a knife in his hand, or his DNA on a victim then they would have charged intentional murder, not felony murder...and the lack of evidence supporting an intentional murder charge also leaves the door open to a possible accomplice.

It's possible in the search of the home they found evidence to put him there with the murder weapon...but we don't know anything about that as of now...and looking at the documents from the search...it didn't look like any of the knives recovered were sent out to a lab for testing (unless I'm misunderstanding the docs)...it looks like only the ballistic evidence and the carpet from the trunk of the car were sent for testing.

JMO

I would say first the the PCA is not everything thing LE has in terms of evidence. They aren’t required to do that. It’s just enough evidence to secure his arrest.
Secondly, RA walked away from the crime scene with the gun and he likely did the same with the knife. That is certainly not unusual. It is probably long gone, tossed, buried, disposed of in some way.
We have pretty much zero information about the actual crime scene. It was very bloody, a knife was used, some of the girls’ clothes were missing. That’s it. We don’t know why some people said the crime scene was “odd” and how that might play into things.
I think this is mostly a circumstantial case.I hope forensically they have something in addition to the unspent bullet, that points to RA, but I’m not holding my breath. Guilty people are convicted every single day on nothing but circumstantial evidence and they have a lot of it here. Courts consider it and instruct juries to consider it as they would direct evidence.

 

[CGBSpender]

Even if the best high school basketball team in the country was up against the worst NBA team.

it would not even be a contest. The denfense here is up against insurmountable odds.... because IMO, their client did it and there is only so much you can do to fight overwhelming evidence.

But we will see if that is the case when it comes to trial.

I think the State is holding back an ace or two up their sleeve, but if they are not...it might not be as bad of a case as folks think (depending on what exactly the admissions were)...admissions aside for a moment...it might hypothetically look something like...

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...my client took a walk on the trails that day, he went as far as the first platform, turned around and walked back....he sat on a bench for a short time further down on the trail, then went back to his car. He didn't see the victims because he left before they reached the trail, and no one else saw him because no one else was on the trail between the Mears lot entrance and the Freedom bridge when my client was walking back (assuming this is the case). Look at these photos...does my client's black Ford Focus look anything like a purple PT Cruiser that one witnessed claimed to see? That alleged Black Focus on the HH video at 1:27 pm...that's not my client. My client told police he parked at the old farm bureau building (downtown), and he started walking to the trails from there. Police never asked my client what he meant by "old farm bureau building" when they questioned him again in 2022...why? Because they didn't want to know the answer...they chose to assume he meant CPS building for purposes of obtaining probable cause to search his home, and probable cause to arrest him. And they needed to arrest someone...this case had drug on for five years, and the local Sheriff's election was days away when my client was taken into custody. Witnesses X, Y, and Z all say they saw the individual depicted in the photos from the victim's phone...those witnesses have also seen my client multiple times at the CVS store where he works and they have never identified him as the man they saw that day (again assuming they can say this...what are the chances that these witnesses never saw him at the local CVS in the last few years? not many places in Delphi to get prescriptions filled.). I don't know who they saw, but it wasn't my client. My client voluntarily spoke to LE back in 2017 to let them know he had been there that day, and gave a DNA sample (assuming this is the case...it seems like they were getting samples from others on the trails that day...why would they have not got his?)...his DNA is not a match to DNA at the crime scene, and not on the victims (assuming this is the case). Police never spoke to my client again because he was at ______________ at the time a witness claims to have seen the killer on 300 N leaving the area. My client's cellular phone data corroborates this (assuming that is the case). You will hear from our ballistics expert who will tell you that it is not possible to conclusively connect the unspent cartridge at the crime scene to my client's gun. You will also hear from experts about the hairs and fibers recovered from the crime scene...none of which have been connected in any way to my client (assuming that is the case). Look at this map...I will show you the various ways the man from the victim's phone could have entered and exited the bridge without my client or others seeing him. My client has been married for ________ and is a father...he has never been in trouble with the law. In the end, I believe you will look at the evidence and see that the State has not proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt and return a verdict of NG.

Don't misunderstand me...I'm not saying I think LE got it wrong...I'm just saying that based on what we know at this time...and without the admissions (which we don't know the substance of)...I think it may not be as bad of a case for the defense as people may think.

JMO

 

[CGBSpender]

I would say first the the PCA is not everything thing LE has in terms of evidence. They aren’t required to do that. It’s just enough evidence to secure his arrest.
Secondly, RA walked away from the crime scene with the gun and he likely did the same with the knife. That is certainly not unusual. It is probably long gone, tossed, buried, disposed of in some way.
We have pretty much zero information about the actual crime scene. It was very bloody, a knife was used, some of the girls’ clothes were missing. That’s it. We don’t know why some people said the crime scene was “odd” and how that might play into things.
I think this is mostly a circumstantial case.I hope forensically they have something in addition to the unspent bullet, that points to RA, but I’m not holding my breath. Guilty people are convicted every single day on nothing but circumstantial evidence and they have a lot of it here. Courts consider it and instruct juries to consider it as they would direct evidence.

I agree, they don't have to put everything in the PCA...and I suspect (and hope) they are holding back some solid evidence. That said, I do feel the PCA was weak, and I don't understand why if they had/have more...they didn't include something more in it. The main difference between the PCA for the search warrant, and the PCA for the arrest is the addition of the ballistics information...which even a mediocre defense expert will poke holes in all day long...I guess I wanted to see something more than that in the arrest PCA given the amount and nature of the items they removed from the home.

Consistent with how this case has gone...it seems like the arrest PCA included the absolute minimum bare bones amount of information possible to get a Judge to sign off on it. Why? If this is the guy...what is the reason for not showing at least a little bit more of your hand at that point? The level of protection around every bit of information about this case is quite impressive.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree, they don't have to put everything in the PCA...and I suspect (and hope) they are holding back some solid evidence. That said, I do feel the PCA was weak, and I don't understand why if they had/have more...they didn't include something more in it. The main difference between the PCA for the search warrant, and the PCA for the arrest is the addition of the ballistics information...which even a mediocre defense expert will poke holes in all day long...I guess I wanted to see something more than that in the arrest PCA given the amount and nature of the items they removed from the home.

Consistent with how this case has gone...it seems like the arrest PCA included the absolute minimum bare bones amount of information possible to get a Judge to sign off on it. Why? If this is the guy...what is the reason for not showing at least a little bit more of your hand at that point? The level of protection around every bit of information about this case is quite impressive.

JMO

It's not uncommon that LE would provide the minimum in PCA. The State wants to hold that information as close to the vest as possible, even going as far to seal most of the records and issue a gag order in this case.

I believe the evidence will be highly inflammatory against RA, so it's working in his favor really. It must be bad...he saw enough in Discovery back in early April and then literally tried to eat it and claim mental health issues.

I believe RA is BG beyond a doubt, and I believe he is a very, very scary person.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

ALL MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if we see a trial this year?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if we see a trial this year?

I don't think so unfortunately.

 

[Schatz]

I still, perhaps wildly, think this is all going to tie into a CSAM ring involving KAK, JBC, and some thus far unnamed “client.” ‍ Can’t shake it.

 

[K9Enzo]

And killers who killed children are treated especially harshly by the prison population.

It's one thing that even the majority of prisoners can't even tolerate.

I think what makes prisoners a target of the population are high profile cases with a lot of attention. I think it’s a myth that children are highly regarded in this way. imo

 

[Salah11]

I still, perhaps wildly, think this is all going to tie into a CSAM ring involving KAK, JBC, and some thus far unnamed “client.” ‍ Can’t shake it.

I don’t as there is zero evidence suggesting anything of that nature and he has now been in jail for ages and charged for ages.


I believe he is a pathetic short Man who felt emasculated by his wife or life and picked on the weakest members he could to gain some power back IMO

 

[mrjitty]

I don’t as there is zero evidence suggesting anything of that nature and he has now been in jail for ages and charged for ages.


I believe he is a pathetic short Man who felt emasculated by his wife or life and picked on the weakest members he could to gain some power back IMO

Right

I am leaning towards a damp squib trial where he has no real defence, they try to get some evidence kicked out, and his admissions sink him ... if it even goes to trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think what makes prisoners a target of the population are high profile cases with a lot of attention. I think it’s a myth that children are highly regarded in this way. imo

I agree high profile cases are targeted more, but child killers and 'snitches' are considered the lowest rung in prison hierarchy.

MOO

 

[Bergmann]

I wonder if we see a trial this year?

Not a chance. I suspect 9-12 months is a more realistic timeline.

Unless of course, he can be persuaded to change his plea...

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Maybe this is a dumb question, from someone with very very limited experience the legal system, but when someone is judged as indigent and gets court-appointed lawyers, does he/she ever have to pay back the cost of that defense? Meaning specifically, is there any incentive at all to plead and avoid a trial?

 

[Salah11]

Not a chance. I suspect 9-12 months is a more realistic timeline.

Unless of course, he can be persuaded to change his plea...

Did I imagine there was a trial date then for January 2023?


ETA - I have not kept up to date on here in last few months so want to check it’s not been changed.

 

[twall]

Jury Trial dates posted on docket are:

01/08/2024

Jury Trial Session: 01/08/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/09/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/10/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/11/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/12/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/15/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/16/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/17/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/18/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/19/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/22/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/23/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/24/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/25/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/26/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

 

[mrjitty]

wow so a year from now

wonder what happened to that urgency to seek bail

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I think what makes prisoners a target of the population are high profile cases with a lot of attention. I think it’s a myth that children are highly regarded in this way. imo

In my personal eXperience volunteering in prison, protecting women and children, by assaulting men guilty of those crimes, especially sexual crimes was very much the normal code. It was done across the board and proudly ….definitely earned brownie points from one’s fellow prisoners.

 

[CGBSpender]

It's not uncommon that LE would provide the minimum in PCA. The State wants to hold that information as close to the vest as possible, even going as far to seal most of the records and issue a gag order in this case.

I believe the evidence will be highly inflammatory against RA, so it's working in his favor really. It must be bad...he saw enough in Discovery back in early April and then literally tried to eat it and claim mental health issues.

I believe RA is BG beyond a doubt, and I believe he is a very, very scary person.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

ALL MOO

It was certainly not lost on me as well that the mental health issues started not long after he probably received the first set of discovery documents from the State. I'd really love to know what's in them....all in due time I guess.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder what his reaction was when his wife told him she was going to have to sell the house.