IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[steeltowngirl]

a motive ? its clearly a sexually motivated thrill kill ..what else could it be

SA as a motive makes sense and would be the predictable motive.

Which is why it was somewhat clever by defense to present a shocking and unpredictable motive (the Twist), with a new set of players.

If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS…

 

[Charlot123]

When reading a mystery novel, or taking in a film that is said to have a twist, it usually means something unpredictable and or shocking has taken place in the plot. So what is it here? Did the Odins leave a bullet to frame someone who turned out to be RA? Did someone frame the Odins?? There’s something we are still unaware of I think.

Maybe RA was part of the group? Remember how DC always said he was not sure RA acted alone. Everyone thought, with RL, who was dead, but maybe with the group of…these?

BTW, all RL’s behavior can be so well explained if these were odinites. Obviously he was scared and preferred jail. And then, “maybe someone won’t kill in my backyard” to KF? I wonder what KF knew? He was supposed to understand the hint.

 

[tlcya]

The document isn’t more polished on purpose. They’re talking to the general public and wrote it how they’d explain their theory to a general citizen - how they’d word it verbally. To keep people following.

exactly, it wasn't written to sway the judge MOO it was meant for us. It's IMO a Jose Biaz volley meant to sway the potential jury pool. in the same way Biaz told a captive audience of a jury that George Anthony spent his nights creeping into Former Inmate Casey A.'s bedroom to molest her during his opening statement and then never once during the whole rest of the trial brought forth any evidence or testimony of any such thing ever having happened.

Look over here at the scary nearly satanic racist cult doing human sacrifice. Ridiculous. IMO

 

[TL4S]

At the link within the article below, page 110, it clearly says that LG's phone was found underneath her body.

In the D's memorandum, it says the phone was found underneath A's body. It also says A was dressed in L's jeans and sweatshirt, the very ones we saw A wearing in the bridge photo (unless I'm wholly mistaken and L did have jeans and a sweatshirt).

How can things be so inconsistent?

Delphi Documents Released

 

[steeltowngirl]

exactly, it wasn't written to sway the judge MOO it was meant for us. It's IMO a Jose Biaz volley meant to sway the potential jury pool. in the same way Biaz told a captive audience of a jury that George Anthony spent his nights creeping into Former Inmate Casey A.'s bedroom to molest her during his opening statement and then never once during the whole rest of the trial brought forth any evidence or testimony of any such thing ever having happened.

Look over here at the scary nearly satanic racist cult doing human sacrifice. Ridiculous. IMO

Yep. Or OJ‘s glove. That even spawned a jingle.
“If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit.”

ugh.

 

[Boxer]

If the CS was stage as this memorandum describes, then I would think the RA did some research online or had exposure through fiction of true crime type media.

The staging sounds extemporaneous to me.
Branches everywhere.

Viking symbols available as necklaces, keychains and cold can sleeves as well as posters explaining their meaning are widely available.
They are in abundance at trinket places such gas station stores.

Clothing someone after violating them seems significant to me though. That's a kind of expression of regret.

Motion is tedious and an attempt to grab the You Tube credulous.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Kind of busy, what was the depth that day? TIA. IIRC, back when the murders fi happened, someone checked that website and found the water wasn’t too deep to cross.

I remember searchers crossing at the sandy bar point and it wasn't even knee deep there. I wish I could find the photo.

 

[Krazykatlady]

I stayed up way too late last night slogging through the defense’s thesis.

We don’t know what evidence the prosecution has on RA beyond the bullet. He could have had a whole trove of crime scene selfies in his nightstand for all we know. So, I’m not ready to give up on RA as the guy responsible.

But, the defense does present some potentially plausible (to me) ideas and suspects.

The confessions by EF to his sisters are what give me the biggest pause. His sister was spooked enough by his confession (and found it believable enough) to contact LE with the information. I don’t know much about EF except what the defense has written, but I get the picture that’s he’s not very bright and is easily swayed and impressed by others. I could see him either actually being at the crime scene as some eager beaver willing to do anything to fit in with these other guys OR hearing about the crime scene from some of these other guys and making up a story about his involvement to impress others.

Which leads me to BH. His link to one of the victims and his social media postings definitely give me pause. But I don’t buy the defense’s theory that he wasn’t at work. It seems far fetched that this guy is a criminal mastermind who had a co-worker punch out for him so he could sneak off mid-shift to go participate in a ritualistic double murder. He strikes me as the type of guy that would just call in sick.

IDK

I guess I’m open to the possibility that some of the Odin players mentioned did actually commit the murders.

I’m also open to the idea that they had nothing to do with it and one of their moronic friends was privy to crime scene details (like photos … remember what happened with the Kobe Bryant investigation) that he shared. Then these idiots started alluding to involvement or insider knowledge as a way to look cool … which led to all sorts of local rumors and a false confession by EF to his sisters.

 

[O.Incandenza]

When is the Franks hearing scheduled?

tia

This was just the motion asking for a Franks hearing. The judge has to grant it before the hearing will be scheduled. She could also deny it.

 

[Vaderman]

One thing that confuses me -- it's stated frequently that Abby died slowly. How could that determination be made after the fact?

 

[Betty P]

exactly, it wasn't written to sway the judge MOO it was meant for us. It's IMO a Jose Biaz volley meant to sway the potential jury pool. in the same way Biaz told a captive audience of a jury that George Anthony spent his nights creeping into Former Inmate Casey A.'s bedroom to molest her during his opening statement and then never once during the whole rest of the trial brought forth any evidence or testimony of any such thing ever having happened.

Look over here at the scary nearly satanic racist cult doing human sacrifice. Ridiculous. IMO

There was a legendary defense attorney who used to deliberately trip or stumble as he got up to argue his case. He knew it made the jurors feel sympathetic towards him for embarrassing himself. He used the trick so often, some judges complained about it.

Richard 'Racehorse' Haynes, whose high-profile clients included oil millionaire Cullen Davis, dies at 90

Richard "Racehorse" Haynes parlayed his dislike for bullies and passion for fighting other people's battles into a legendary career as a...

www.dallasnews.com

“Racehorse” Haynes, 
1927–2017

Remembering an unlikely, but legendary, criminal defense attorney.

www.texasmonthly.com

His "dog bite" defense argument:

ianna Wray December 14, 2020 Published in the December 2020 issue of Houstonia Magazine

“Say you sue me because you say my dog bit you,” Haynes was known to say when explaining his strategy. “Well, this is my defense: My dog doesn’t bite. And second, in the alternative, my dog was tied up that night. And third, I don’t believe you really got bit. And fourth, I don’t have a dog.”

 

[photographer4]

I wonder if Libby dropped it intentionally and stepped on it to hide it. Then when she took off her shoe she left her shoe on top of the phone and RA simply never saw the phone and didn’t move Libby’s shoe when he killed Abby and didn’t realize there was a shoe and phone under Abby’s back or leg, since the defense mentioned both not really sure where the shoe & phone were.

This wouldn’t make sense to me. I think the killer(s) knew the phone and shoe were there because they posed the bodies of both girls. In redressing Abby they would had to have seen the shoe if not the phone. I also don’t think it is realistic that Libby in a state of likely absolute panic and fear thought to hide the phone in that moment.

What I think is more likely?

A) killer(s) placed the shoe and phone where they were found then placed Abby on top of them. Why?
B) killer(s) may have left a photo or video or a note on the notepad of the device or a text out or something - as a F* you to police whom they knew would surely find it.
C) they may have known about the BG video. But I think sadly it may be more likely they recorded or had one of the kids record whatever happened to the other kid. That may be why police said the look on one girls face when she realized what was about to happen is one he will never forget or something to that effect (see prior WS discussions for link as I’ve mentioned this many times over the years).

 

[Betty P]

I stayed up way too late last night slogging through the defense’s thesis.

We don’t know what evidence the prosecution has on RA beyond the bullet. He could have had a whole trove of crime scene selfies in his nightstand for all we know. So, I’m not ready to give up on RA as the guy responsible.

But, the defense does present some potentially plausible (to me) ideas and suspects.

The confessions by EF to his sisters are what give me the biggest pause. His sister was spooked enough by his confession (and found it believable enough) to contact LE with the information. I don’t know much about EF except what the defense has written, but I get the picture that’s he’s not very bright and is easily swayed and impressed by others. I could see him either actually being at the crime scene as some eager beaver willing to do anything to fit in with these other guys OR hearing about the crime scene from some of these other guys and making up a story about his involvement to impress others.

Which leads me to BH. His link to one of the victims and his social media postings definitely give me pause. But I don’t buy the defense’s theory that he wasn’t at work. It seems far fetched that this guy is a criminal mastermind who had a co-worker punch out for him so he could sneak off mid-shift to go participate in a ritualistic double murder. He strikes me as the type of guy that would just call in sick.

IDK

I guess I’m open to the possibility that some of the Odin players mentioned did actually commit the murders.

I’m also open to the idea that they had nothing to do with it and one of their moronic friends was privy to crime scene details (like photos … remember what happened with the Kobe Bryant investigation) that he shared. Then these idiots started alluding to involvement or insider knowledge as a way to look cool … which led to all sorts of local rumors and a false confession by EF to his sisters.

The problem for the defense is that LE already fully investigated BH. They're going to have to convince jurors that LE didn't do so. In a courtroom, where they can't make stuff up, that will be extremely difficult to do. JMO

 

[photographer4]

One thing that confuses me -- it's stated frequently that Abby died slowly. How could that determination be made after the fact?

Depending on what happened first. Eg: maybe there are other less serious wounds we don’t know about yet? Or a superficial cut initially? We know the docs released mentioned something about it being slow due to where she was injured.

 

[chaz]

Oh, but they DID say it.
They mention his name a whopping 425 times in the document.

And I hope he sues them. I wonder if they can be disbarred? (jmo)

View attachment 448425

I haven't read the whole document yet but in this piece it says:
"The defence believes that the Court will be shocked at the number of clues or "easter eggs", both before and after the murders, that H. openly posted on his Facebook page that pointed the finger to his involvement in the murders."
So clues have been posted before the murders?
Does that mean that everyone could have seen it, including RA?
ETA, name chanced to initial by me

 

[Trebor5591]

One thing that confuses me -- it's stated frequently that Abby died slowly. How could that determination be made after the fact?

Per my memory of biology and anatomy classes, the human neck has both arteries and veins. If the Memorandum in Support of Motion is correct, Abby had only a vein severed, not an artery, and so blood loss wasn't catastrophic with near immediate death. With only a vein cut, blood loss was less and it took her more time to die, poor child. :-( MOO.

 

[Betty P]

I haven't read the whole document yet but in this piece it says:
"The defence believes that the Court will be shocked at the number of clues or "easter eggs", both before and after the murders, that Holder openly posted on his Facebook page that pointed the finger to his involvement in the murders."
So clues have been posted before the murders?
Does that mean that everyone could have seen it, including RA?

They're probably referring to some things BH posted on his FB page that really don't show what the defense thinks they show.

Slightly OT, but shouldn't we be referring to the defense's alleged suspect by his initials BH instead of using his name? LE has not named him as a suspect.

 

[Betty P]

Depending on what happened first. Eg: maybe there are other less serious wounds we don’t know about yet? Or a superficial cut initially? We know the docs released mentioned something about it being slow due to where she was injured.

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link? TIA

 

[O.Incandenza]

According to RA lawyers - a guy for. The odinites DID say something only someone who was there would know: that Abby was left with horns on her head. This guy said he was there. How would he have known this fact about the “horns” (stick arrangement) if he weren’t there or hadn’t heard it from someone who was there???

IMO, this was the most intriguing evidence the defense mentioned related to any of the people they were pointing at. He apparently confessed at different times to two of his sisters. And included that crime scene detail. He also asked LE if he would be in trouble if his spit was found on one of the girls.

However, without seeing pictures it's impossible to know how real that 'crown of sticks' was. Maybe it was just some random sticks that the defense is now characterizing as a crown to match his confession. And people do confess to crimes they don't commit, as I'm sure the defense themselves will be arguing later on.

Given two people who have confessed, I'll personally go with the one we know was on the trails that day.

 

[photographer4]

If the guards are wearing Odin patches, I'm pretty sure the inmates will know it.

Oh I agree! But how did RA know they were Odins or know to be worried about this fact at all? He hadn’t yet been told there was an Odin angle to his case by the lawyers. The lawyers say he isn’t affiliated with the odins. So when and how did RA become aware of Odins and fearful of them?

I had never heard of Odins before. I had no idea about some of the things they are into or their ties to white supremacy etc. I didn’t recognize their signs or symbols aside some of the Ruins being discussed and only then in a very basic way.

So to me, he has a reason to fear them - I’d like to know what the reason is? Are they involved? Have they been framed (the Odins) or have they just decided to become terrorists?