IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[scapa]

snipped

It's not uncommon in many parts of the USA for colleagues to pray together. They could pray and also use a "pragmatic, scientific approach." They could also be tested in their faith by this crime. All of that could happen.

jmopinion

Of course. Not arguing that and meant no aspersions or offence. My point really is that I can imagine that some of the details alleged in the filing might have had special significance and potential to shock some of the LE assigned to the case, as I think some of the responses of TL and DC suggest.

In other words, if those details are accurate, then the perpetrator was highly aware of how that staging was likely to impact responders and investigators from that community. IMO, that's as likely to point towards RA as it is to indicate some organized Odinite group.

I suspect that RA genuinely and profoundly hated himself and the communities he was part of. Abby and Libby just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to bear the brunt of that anger and hatred. IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[IDK]

From Thread 175, Post #950 by Misty Waters ( apologies if this is not formatted correctly):

“I still don’t get the point of it all. Why would a supposed white supremacy group sacrifice two white teens, just because a parent of one is apparently in a biracial relationship. Really, why not sacrifice the parent instead?”

Not saying I believe any of the latest revelations ( to put it mildly) but isn’t a classic human sacrifice ( in literature at least) preferred to be a pure, virginal young female?

PS: For the record, I am not taking this seriously necessarily, just commenting on a post, lol.
All IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

Crime scene profilers must have had a field day with this crime scene - so many details.

I wonder if we will get to hear from any?

This sure does place the murders in a different light to what i had thought most likely (first time killer - maybe kills the girls in a panic). This seems much more like a careful fantasy where he had planned what he would do.

 

[LunaInvidia]

From Thread 175, Post #950 by Misty Waters ( apologies if this is not formatted correctly):

“I still don’t get the point of it all. Why would a supposed white supremacy group sacrifice two white teens, just because a parent of one is apparently in a biracial relationship. Really, why not sacrifice the parent instead?”

Not saying I believe any of the latest revelations ( to put it mildly) but isn’t a classic human sacrifice ( in literature at least) preferred to be a pure, virginal young female?

not in the ancient Nordic tradition. Sacrifices were, as far as historians can tell, prisoners of war. Usually young men.( Blót - Wikipedia)

 

[TL4S]

It's wild to me that anyone is taking the pagan angle seriously. It feels like watching a case involving cannibalism and the defense said "we think it was committed by this known Catholic, because Catholics consume flesh and blood!" like okay I Guess Technically Yes that is a belief but absolutely no one thinks taking communion is the same as the Donner Party.

The Odinism angle is really only a theory being projected by the D, IMO. I think we can take it out of the equation and still have some interesting discussion, because if the document is legitimate, there are some very serious claims being made against LE, NMcL, the SW, and the PCA. Maybe they are just throwing crap on the walls and seeing what sticks, as has been said repeatedly, but the D would be doing their client a disservice by making these claims without reason.

Here's where I'm at. When the D came out saying that RA's mental health was deteriorating and he needed out of Westville, we soon discovered he'd confessed, which likely led to the D's bold statements. I believe something is happening behind the scenes to cause these new bold statements, and it's only a matter of time before we find out what. JMO.

 

[shotgun09]

My response to this latest filing by the defense?

" Cool story, bro "

 

[iamshadow21]

The Odinism angle is really only a theory being projected by the D, IMO. I think we can take it out of the equation and still have some interesting discussion, because if the document is legitimate, there are some very serious claims being made against LE, NMcL, the SW, and the PCA. Maybe they are just throwing crap on the walls and seeing what sticks, as has been said repeatedly, but the D would be doing their client a disservice by making these claims without reason.

Here's where I'm at. When the D came out saying that RA's mental health was deteriorating and he needed out of Westville, we soon discovered he'd confessed, which likely led to the D's bold statements. I believe something is happening behind the scenes to cause these new bold statements, and it's only a matter of time before we find out what. JMO.

Calling mental health problems didn't work out for them. Now they're implying that the real killers (at least, their cult bros) are running the prison he's in. A bold move, but about as likely to succeed as a chocolate teapot. As in, not at all, but it's going to make a heck of a mess.

MOO

 

[LunaInvidia]

The Odinism angle is really only a theory being projected by the D, IMO. I think we can take it out of the equation and still have some interesting discussion, because if the document is legitimate, there are some very serious claims being made against LE, NMcL, the SW, and the PCA. Maybe they are just throwing crap on the walls and seeing what sticks, as has been said repeatedly, but the D would be doing their client a disservice by making these claims without reason.

Here's where I'm at. When the D came out saying that RA's mental health was deteriorating and he needed out of Westville, we soon discovered he'd confessed, which likely led to the D's bold statements. I believe something is happening behind the scenes to cause these new bold statements, and it's only a matter of time before we find out what. JMO.

Oh, I think so, for sure, but there's a non zero amount of people who are going "gosh this BH guy does seem like a freak, look he has an ALTAR! what if he DID do it." Ultimately the opinions of we randos won't matter, only the facts, but in the meantime I'm flabbergasted by people who appear to swayed by this document.

 

[iamshadow21]

Oh, I think so, for sure, but there's a non zero amount of people who are going "gosh this BH guy does seem like a freak, look he has an ALTAR! what if he DID do it." Ultimately the opinions of we randos won't matter, only the facts, but in the meantime I'm flabbergasted by people who appear to swayed by this document.

There are people who genuinely believe the earth is flat, but create ridiculous reasons why they can still use their GPS and mobile phones and take transcontinental air flights. Belief is so weird.

MOO

 

[Schatz]

Hard time keeping up, but honestly after reading that document last night I have arrived at: sick criminal mastermind made use of an extensive, active CSAM ring *and* the Odinites to carry out some sick fantasy. Probably no one from either group had any idea what they were in for with the actual killing of two girls.

When RA was arrested my first thought was “huh? Who?” Followed by “maybe he’s undercover, and they are trying to flush out the real perp.” After reading this memorandum I found myself seriously wondering if he is a scapegoat.

Assuming this document is real, which it seems to be?, the defense came armed with footnotes and confidential exhibits and referenced evidence that the judge has access to. Unless Tony Liggett and other named officers are thoroughly corrupt, someone way higher up the LE food chain is overseeing this, right? There is no way something like what was described in that document - the crime scene, the confessions to sisters, the Odinist rituals and meetings, the complete shut down of an investigative track that appears to be HUGE and RELEVANT to the crime scene - happens unless it’s a conspiracy involving law enforcement OR LE are still actively investigating it, because these depositions are from the last month - they are RECENT.

 

[IDK]

not in the ancient Nordic tradition. Sacrifices were, as far as historians can tell, prisoners of war. Usually young men.( Blót - Wikipedia)

Hmm, very interesting, thank you. This makes the latest reports even less likely, in that case. IMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

It's wild to me that anyone is taking the pagan angle seriously. It feels like watching a case involving cannibalism and the defense said "we think it was committed by this known Catholic, because Catholics consume flesh and blood!" like okay I Guess Technically Yes that is a belief but absolutely no one thinks taking communion is the same as the Donner Party.

I can't see the evidence photos, obviously, but all I can think is, he covered the bodies with branches... and? That seems like a normal thing for a killer concealing a body to do. Runes are all angles, and you throw a bunch of tree limbs down at random, they're possibly going to vaguely look like something runic with zero intent to spell out a message. And the F rune on the tree? Could be intentional, of course, but could have also been there because the killer grabbed the tree, leaned on it, or wiped his hand on the bark while he had blood on his fingers.

I think this is the equivalent of defense throwing a smoke bomb into a crowded place. It's loud and disruptive and unpleasant, but nothing is actually exploding or on fire, however much they want us to believe it is.

MOO

 

[TL4S]

Oh, I think so, for sure, but there's a non zero amount of people who are going "gosh this BH guy does seem like a freak, look he has an ALTAR! what if he DID do it." Ultimately the opinions of we randos won't matter, only the facts, but in the meantime I'm flabbergasted by people who appear to swayed by this document.

It does all read like fantasy fiction, for sure, but if the crime scene description is accurate, the killer(s) did some super bizarre things: posing and seemingly redressing bodies, painting a tree with victim blood, placing sticks on and around the bodies, putting two bras on one girl, etc. We don't have to interpret that as Odinism, but we've long known the CS was "odd," thanks to RI, and now we might better understand why.

This goes far beyond killing because some girls laughed at him, or he wanted to SA them, imo. It's weird. Maybe eating paperwork weird. Idk. No matter what we believe as individuals, and no matter the spin either the prosecutor or defense puts on the crime scene, it was the killer(s) who left it that way, and it's not normal. Jmo.

 

[OldCop]

The document introduces a number of alternative suspects with possible motive and a clearer connection (than RA had) to Libby and Abby, like H and W. H posted photos on Facebook that invoked the crime scene and potential symbolism present at the crime scene, even though this information was not publicly available. He was also interviewed by law enforcement early on as a result of multiple tips received about him. His partner, AH, was also interviewed by LE and offered some interesting information about H and W’s relationship and their interest in "Asatru," which H also mentioned in his interview with LE (page 83 of the doc, if you're interested).

IMO, the introduction of these other suspects casts doubt -- FOR ME -- on RA's involvement in the crime. Of course, we don't have all of the information on what LE found in RA's home. It's possible they possess additional evidence that places him at the crime scene in addition to the bullet (shell casing?) found. It's also possible that they found evidence that shows RA's interest in the ostensible "Nordic beliefs" the symbolism at the crime scene may represent. It sounds like the defense is interested in getting this evidence thrown out, so it also follows that in the absence of all of the information on RA, the defense has manufactured an alternative narrative to distract from this evidence / distract or sway the jury later on. Of course this is a possibility.

The document also suggests that LE's consultation with a professor at Purdue and the FBI's BAU led them to suspect a ritualistic crime, which they were apparently uninterested in following through with. They cleared H, for example, pretty soon after the murders in spite of what I find to be compelling evidence that suggests his involvement in or knowledge about the murders.

FWIW, I find the document to be very silly in places and I also understand their rhetorical moves to cast doubt on LE's narrative and their insistence that they finally caught the guy. Even so, the other suspects introduced in the document, and LE's inability or unwillingness to properly investigate them, creates doubt and is also, unfortunately, what I would characterize as another incredible error on Delphi police's investigation into this crime. This does not make them look good and raises serious questions about the investigation and the current suspect in custody.

All IMO.

See how easy it is to create reasonable doubt? You would be that one juror they are looking for.

 

[Inthedetails]

See how easy it is to create reasonable doubt? You would be that one juror they are looking for.

But at trial, the prosecutor will be there to lay out the facts to counter the scary fairy-tale version (if this fantasy version is even presented in court).

jmo

 

[Schatz]

Calling mental health problems didn't work out for them. Now they're implying that the real killers (at least, their cult bros) are running the prison he's in. A bold move, but about as likely to succeed as a chocolate teapot. As in, not at all, but it's going to make a heck of a mess.

MOO

The attorneys attest to the Odin patches on the guards - at the very least someone is messing with RA psychologically.

And I really must stress that Indiana is a weird little state with a long, weird history, and as one who lives here, I would not be at all surprised to learn that corrections officers belong to white nationalist groups (and cops, for that matter) or that a religion/Norse mythology has been co-opted by a bunch of country boys who just want to feel like they BELONG to something or that someone facing re-election did something highly unethical. None of this seems at all off-the-wall or out of character for Indiana to me whatsoever (much as it pains me to say so). So my hope is that whatever FBI task force running the show here is not the same one that protected Larry Nassar. I mean seriously, who in Indiana is a person to trust? The good ole boys’ network is *strong* here.

 

[r3d-ros3]

See how easy it is to create reasonable doubt? You would be that one juror they are looking for.

It is easy, especially when LE fails in the ways that they have in this case. Ultimately, the real shame is that years later and even with a suspect in custody, we are managing to move even further away from justice for the victims.

 

[OldCop]

But at trial, the prosecutor will be there to lay out the facts to counter the scary fairy-tale version (if this fantasy version is even presented in court).

jmo

RBBM
We can only hope.

 

[iamshadow21]

The attorneys attest to the Odin patches on the guards - at the very least someone is messing with RA psychologically.

And I really must stress that Indiana is a weird little state with a long, weird history, and as one who lives here, I would not be at all surprised to learn that corrections officers belong to white nationalist groups (and cops, for that matter) or that a religion/Norse mythology has been co-opted by a bunch of country boys who just want to feel like they BELONG to something or that someone facing re-election did something highly unethical. None of this seems at all off-the-wall or out of character for Indiana to me whatsoever (much as it pains me to say so). So my hope is that whatever FBI task force running the show here is not the same one that protected Larry Nassar. I mean seriously, who in Indiana is a person to trust? The good ole boys’ network is *strong* here.

Yes, all that could be true, but it's still a massive leap from that to a ritual murder of two teenagers seemingly at random with a wide range of participants and conspiracy between them to accuse a random guy who was at the trail, dressed like bridge guy, carrying a knife and a gun, checking his stocks and 'watching fish' from a decomposing rail bridge way too high above the water to see fish.

MOO

 

[sandy_80]

That's fair -- you're right that there were local rumors spreading about the crime scene. I do think it's strange that, at least per the defense doc (which is all we have right now that describes the crime scene in such detail), H posted what appears to be a "re-staging" of the crime scene that was extremely accurate. H and W also filmed a ceremony where they apparently marked a tree in a similar place as the tree was marked at the crime scene. It could be a coincidence, or irrelevant, or a result of rumor, but it's strange nonetheless, IMO.

Regardless, I think it's particularly brazen to post these images on a public Facebook profile. You wouldn't think that the killer(s) would do something so incriminating. And yet, H posted these images -- and LE didn't seem to find it worth following up on anyway. This is not to say that H is the killer, but rather, that you'd think anyone local who posted such imagery would be worth following up on significantly. That's why a man from Georgia, and several locals, called in information about H and his social media posts to the tip line. And still, per the defense doc, LE dropped him as a suspect almost immediately following the murders. I find that shocking.

I havent heard about this guy even tho we followed the crime closely...but there are others who right from the beginning who pushed for this ritual crimescene and its a ritual murder ( including robert lindsay site)
le also said that the killer might have been trying to throw off the invistigation ( so I think they walked away from this thoery right away
and this is exactly what might have happened.. for the first time i am contemplating the idea is this RA ..might be more of a mastermind than we thought...but it could work both ways reall
he was fullfulling a sick fantasy
he was trying to throw off the invstigation