IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[MistyWaters]

Ha, interesting information! My take on what was said, lawyers are more effective with the less information they know, the better. While they can’t lie, then they can make broad statements not knowing whether it’s true or not.

Point in mention - RA’s confession. Seems his attorneys must NOT have even asked RA why he confessed (they don’t want to know, what if he told them he confessed because he was guilty). So that gives attorneys liberty to claim he confessed because he was in fear of the Odinist guards. Remembering their job is to raise doubt, achieving freedom for their client.

 

[Charlot123]

Most reputable lawyers wouldn't. I wouldn't be surprised if the defense team is not reprimanded for this.

MOO

As they say, those who don't take risks don't end up drinking champagne. Iris E. went overboard for her client once. Say what you want about him, but she pointed out at LE sucking at the technical part of the investigation. Find where the prosecution lapses, and make it big.

In this case, I remember, in the very beginning, there was a boy sending information about A&L from his Snapchat in the evening. Later it became big, later, as everything, minimized. But it looked as if several people might have known what had happened to girls. So why can't a group be involved?

 

[girlhasnoname]

The problem is Libby was not wearing jeans that day. Her sister drove them to the bridge and she saw what her sister wore. Even in the missing persons report states

“Libby is described as 5’4″ with a heavy build, shoulder-length blonde hair and blue eyes. She was wearing a tie-dyed shirt that is fringed at the bottom, gray sweatpants with unknown black lettering and black Nike shoes.”


Abby wore Blue jeans that day so if she was found in jeans they had to have been hers.

Yes, Abby was wearing jeans and a pink/purplish sweater or sweatshirt in that photo Liberty took of her on the bridge.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I feel dumb, but I can't quite figure it out. I can post the rest? The other pages are a cover and signatures.View attachment 449356

You can probably post as much as you have; no guarantee it will stay up without a link. Thanks for what you did find; their reply was interesting.

 

[girlhasnoname]

As they say, those who don't take risks don't end up drinking champagne. Iris E. went overboard for her client once. Say what you want about him, but she pointed out at LE sucking at the technical part of the investigation. Find where the prosecution lapses, and make it big.

In this case, I remember, in the very beginning, there was a boy sending information about A&L from his Snapchat in the evening. Later it became big, later, as everything, minimized. But it looked as if several people might have known what had happened to girls. So why can't a group be involved?

I think the group that found the girls may have talked to family/loved ones about the crime scene early on. It would hard not to considering how gruesome it was. I'm surprised there hasn't been more leaks honestly.

We really don't know all the evidence LE has against RA now, besides his 5 confessions and what was in the PCA and SW's. The Defense took advantage of the gag order by creating an alternate theory/suspect in the filing. It was a hail mail pass to get the SW thrown out and causing a media crap storm.

Doing their job, but 100 pages of that filing didn't even relate to the actual Franks Motion. That is playing dirty at the expense of exploiting the young victims and their families.

MOO

I. E. has kept a murderer out of jail for now, I'm sorry for Suzanne, she deserves justice.

 

[girlhasnoname]

So Prosecution believe RA team are gonna go with an insanity defense I believe.


Imo

RA was more than healthy and living a normal, successful, family life at the time of the murders. He was not showing any signs of insanity that I am aware of.

I think his recent attempt to look 'insane' is him purposely trying to portray that and garner sympathy. Also, he could be genuinely concerned that all of his depraved secrets are going to become public information eventually. That doesn't mean he was insane at the time of the murders IMO.

I think the Defense is really going to try and sell this ODDI theory they're talking about in the Memo.

MOO

 

[Chimera]

@Charlot123 : Can you pull it up on your screen or desktop and take a screenshot of it ?

 

[Chimera]

Doubting this new 'cult story', just saying.
There could have been more people involved, but I also believe RA could have committed this these terrible murders all by his lonesome.
My .02 is that he'd have rolled on the others by now !

 

[photographer4]

What, if RA staged the crime scene in his way and mind. When he heard, the crime scene was looking so-and-so (Idk, if that was, when he got crazy and ate the papers), he found out, the crime scene was staged quite different than staged by himself. Can it be??? Until dawn on the morning of Dec 14th there was time to stage the crime scene, if the unknown men managed to avoid the rest of searchers, who searched by night. Can it be, that RA went/drove home and a group of Odinists or Non-Odinists met at the CS by night, maybe convened by RL?
It's only a thought, which comes up now. Speculation.

The whole process would be much easier to comprehend, if the girls were taken away from the CS for some hours and later brought back. But the question would remain: how did the men avoid the rest of the night-searchers?

Apparently it was very dark. So dark the searchers faced a degree of danger in searching with phone / flashlights. So perilous the search was called off at some point only to reconvene the following morning.

I think it is possible the kids were killed elsewhere and brought back. Where? No idea.

Also possible the scene was different when the kids were found vs when the killer left them (again I ask, what did RL know and when did he know it??).

 

[mrtnira]

But a knife crime and a bullet make no sense...

Hi, Charlot. After listening to various true crime investigators (including retired professionals) on YouTube, there seems to be a perception or understanding a gun was used to control the two girls. Then there is the assumption they were killed by someone using a knife. (I remind myself often I don't really know, just what has been released and how people are interpreting that.)

 

[justtrish]

Hi, Charlot. After listening to various true crime investigators (including retired professionals) on YouTube, there seems to be a perception or understanding a gun was used to control the two girls. Then there is the assumption they were killed by someone using a knife. (I remind myself often I don't really know, just what has been released and how people are interpreting that.)

I think this is exactly right. If he used the gun at 2pm on a nice day when people were out walking that trail, then someone would have heard it. He had it to get the girls to go where he wanted them to go. It's my opinion he had the spot picked out and maybe even left some things there to use when he had them there.

 

[sunshineray]

Although this snippet about attorneys is from way back in 2016, I doubt much if anything has changed since then.

SAP BrandVoice: An Attorney On The Difference Between Truth And Honesty

Matthew Frederick has a series of seven books titled 101 Things I Learned in (Architecture | Business | Culinary | Engineering | Fashion | Film | Law) School. They are self-described as “lessons and insights to orient the newcomer and inspire the experienced practitioner.” In each book...

www.forbes.com

“….This passage on the difference between truth and honesty made me think:

Lawyers must be honest, but they don’t have to be truthful. Honesty and truthfulness are not the same thing. Being honest means not telling lies. Being truthful means actively making known all the full truth of a matter. Lawyers must be honest, but they do not have to be truthful. A criminal defense lawyer, for example, in zealously defending a client, has no obligation to actively present the truth. Counsel may not deliberately mislead the court, but has no obligation to tell the defendant’s whole story.”

In the U.S. legal system, a witness has to tell “the whole truth and nothing but the truth” but apparently an attorney does not….”

Well that's just stand-on-your-head semantics, IMO. An honest person has a truthful soul and vice versa. AJMO

 

[justtrish]

Well the states objection to the defense's motion to suppress is very clear and rooted in reality. Which we know is exact opposite of the defenses motion to suppress. lol

They invited RA down to the station for a second interview. On Oct 12th he and his wife agreed and came down on the 13th. He admitted again he was on the trail AND on the high bridge. He says he was wearing jeans and a blue or black jacket with a hood and possibly a face covering. He admits he has guns and knives at home. They applied for the search warrant because of his own self admissions and they state clearly they feared he would destroy evidence once he knew what they were looking for/interested in/asking about.

I think they could take every other eyewitness out of the equation, every spotting of the car or other people on the trail seeing him and thinking he was xyz tall or had this or that on, etc. HE admitted to being there at the time in the exact clothing that the girls had of a man on video. HE is the reason they got that search warrant so how can anyone be misleading the judge or eliminating something to make it more likely to get a search warrant. Wouldn't the very fact that RA himself says I was there, I had this exactly clothing on and I have guns and knives be enough to lead to the granting of a search warrant?

 

[SkyBoomer]

Honestly, how did NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON in Carroll County call in RA as BG? If it is so obvious? If RA looks exactly like BG or either sketch? (I don’t think he looks like ANY of them, nor do any of them look to be the same man)

If that question could be answered, I think I would be more likely to climb down off of the fence. The thought of a wrongful conviction gives me sleepless nights. LE has been “less than” in this case, and often downright disingenuous.

RA may be the guy, and that would be excellent for everyone.

But until I see concrete evidence or at least enough to remove REASONABLE doubt, I will leave my villager torch unlit and my pitchfork safely hung in my toolshed.

I am hopeful the prosecution has more than ample evidence to convict.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Prepare for a new thread!

 

[katydid23]

So here is one huge factually wrong assertion from the memorandum to support Franks Motion:

"Abby was not found at the base of a tree. Abby was fully clothed. In fact, Abby was dressed
in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans. No blood appeared on Abby’s clothing, meaning that she was
likely murdered while naked and then dressed by the murderers after she expired "

Why would they post such incorrect info in their legal motion? We have all seen the photos of what the girls were wearing on that day---so how could the defense try and say the opposite ? I don't get it.

 

[photographer4]

mm 32:29, while talking about evidence, BMcD says that many blue jackets had been turned in, but that LE told her that none of them were THE blue jacket. IMO, this is another key piece of evidence that might work either against or in favor of RA. KA said he still had the blue jacket, so if it is indeed the same one from that day, I think there's some kind of evidence (maybe fiber?) that will prove it's whether or not it'sTHE jacket JMO.

It could be something MISSING from THE jacket that we simply don't know about. A rip or a tear? A hole in the pocket? A hood or no hood?

 

[MadMcGoo]

Please continue the discussion on Thread #167:

IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread. On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek...

www.websleuths.com