IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Sillybilly]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

There has been a major cleanup on this thread tonight due to numerous TOS violations. Here are the RULES we all agreed to upon joining this site.

We have a thread dedicated to KAK HERE. If you have an update specific to any of his current charges, pending charges or news, it is to be posted on that thread. For example, dismissals, court appearances, etc.

This is an example of an article and subject matter that may be brought up for discussion on this thread. This pertains to KAK and Abby’s and Libby’s cases. Although sources such as this are approved, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to them. Nevertheless, they remain approved sources here on Websleuths.

Regardless of what is posted in ANY approved source, RA’s family (to include photos) are completely off limits as of this post. They are victims. PERIOD.

If you’re going to reference or discuss a topic (even if it’s been brought up before), a link to an approved source must be provided. Otherwise, don’t mention it.

Decisions made by officials may not sit well with us, but they’re most often made for a reason.

And lastly, STAY ON TOPIC. Please and THANK YOU!

- Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

If your post begins with any of the following, IT IS LIKELY AT RISK OF BEING REMOVED, along with any of its replies. Please take the time to find an approved source link to accompany the information you post.

“I thought I read somewhere…”

“I seem to remember hearing…”

“I’m not sure if I can bring this up, but…”

“I can’t remember where I heard this…”

OR

“This is just a rumor…”

Thanks,
Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Gray Hughes has obtained Richard Allen’s voice from social media that we would not normally approve, so here’s how we are going to handle this. This is really a Gray area (yeah, I said that )

Obviously as RA is the accused, his voice is of great interest to all, and we would not be relevant in the true crime community if we disallowed it when it is so highly relevant.

After discussion with Tricia, the decision is that we will allow members to fully discuss the voice as heard on Gray’s podcast.

We will NOT allow direct linking to the wife’s social media accounts.

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

Although a source is approved here on Websleuths, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to these sources. The fact that a source is or is not approved and the reasons why, however, are not up for debate.

Also, if you have a post removed for a particular reason, do not attempt to post the same information and expect it not to be removed also.

Thanks,
Mad

 

[MadMcGoo]

Continue the discussion here.

 

[katydid23]

So here is one huge factually wrong assertion from the memorandum to support Franks Motion:

"Abby was not found at the base of a tree. Abby was fully clothed. In fact, Abby was dressed
in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans. No blood appeared on Abby’s clothing, meaning that she was
likely murdered while naked and then dressed by the murderers after she expired "

Why would they post such incorrect info in their legal motion? We have all seen the photos of what the girls were wearing on that day---so how could the defense try and say the opposite ? I don't get it.

 

[justtrish]

Reposting my post just before the last thread was closed.

Well the states objection to the defense's motion to suppress is very clear and rooted in reality. Which we know is exact opposite of the defenses motion to suppress. lol

They invited RA down to the station for a second interview. On Oct 12th he and his wife agreed and came down on the 13th. He admitted again he was on the trail AND on the high bridge. He says he was wearing jeans and a blue or black jacket with a hood and possibly a face covering. He admits he has guns and knives at home. They applied for the search warrant because of his own self admissions and they state clearly they feared he would destroy evidence once he knew what they were looking for/interested in/asking about.

I think they could take every other eyewitness out of the equation, every spotting of the car or other people on the trail seeing him and thinking he was xyz tall or had this or that on, etc. HE admitted to being there at the time in the exact clothing that the girls had of a man on video. HE is the reason they got that search warrant so how can anyone be misleading the judge or eliminating something to make it more likely to get a search warrant. Wouldn't the very fact that RA himself says I was there, I had this exactly clothing on and I have guns and knives be enough to lead to the granting of a search warrant?

 

[photographer4]

I cannot link to the last page or so of the last thread where someone noted that if Abby was found wearing jeans, they had to be be her jeans.... but actually, did they necessarily have to be hers? I mean its the most logical conclusion right? The easiest answer here - but is it *possible* that someone brought some other jeans to the scene and dressed her in those? Why? Who knows.

 

[O.Incandenza]

The prosecution's response to the motion is straightforward and bare bones. Quite the contrast.

They definitely seem to be going with the argument that even if some of the facts in the affidavit were incorrect or omitted, the totality of the evidence would still provide probable cause.

They wisely ignore all of the extraneous Odinist stuff.

However, they don't seem to push back on the defense's argument about what BB says she saw on the bridge, her description of the car at CPS, or how the witness who saw the man on the road described him (muddy, not muddy & bloody, & with a tan jacket), so I guess those parts of the defense's motion are likely correct.

If I had to guess, I suspect the judge will grant a Franks hearing and then uphold the warrant after hearing arguments. But I guess we'll see.

 

[Boxer]

Why would they post such incorrect info in their legal motion? We have all seen the photos of what the girls were wearing on that day---so how could the defense try and say the opposite ? I don't get it.

Spinning their own tale. They want to say no one person could have done the crime, because look at all the things the person would have to do. So everything is being belabored and they made an error on the clothing attempting to make it extra complicated.

 

[katydid23]

I cannot link to the last page or so of the last thread where someone noted that if Abby was found wearing jeans, they had to be be her jeans.... but actually, did they necessarily have to be hers? I mean its the most logical conclusion right? The easiest answer here - but is it *possible* that someone brought some other jeans to the scene and dressed her in those? Why? Who knows.

What are the odds ? Is it more likely she was found in her own jeans or she was found in a pair brought to the scene by someone else?

 

[Boxer]

What are the odds ? Is it more likely she was found in her own jeans or she was found in a pair brought to the scene by someone else?

She may have been redressed, but it would be her own jeans according to Kelsi's description of what girls were wearing.

There is a further error in the memorandum of support for Franks Motion. That Abbys jeans were thrown in the river. Along with all the other clothes left.

 

[MistyWaters]

I cannot link to the last page or so of the last thread where someone noted that if Abby was found wearing jeans, they had to be be her jeans.... but actually, did they necessarily have to be hers? I mean its the most logical conclusion right? The easiest answer here - but is it *possible* that someone brought some other jeans to the scene and dressed her in those? Why? Who knows.

According to the memorandum, Abby was dressed in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans. So I don’t think we ought to take a giant leap by suggesting she was dressed in unknown jeans instead, that’s how unfounded rumours get started.

The question is how did the defence arrive at this conclusion considering Abby was wearing a sweatshirt and jeans when she went missing and Libby was not. Not knowing the answer to that, it appears to me they got their facts mixed up.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

MOO I think a single man did this. And when he basically sobered up, after killing, he tried to stage with what he had on hand, sticks.

 

[Leve]

According to the memorandum, Abby was dressed in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans. So I don’t think we ought to take a giant leap by suggesting she was dressed in unknown jeans instead, that’s how unfounded rumours get started.

The question is how did the defence arrive at this conclusion considering Abby was wearing a sweatshirt and jeans when she went missing and Libby was not. Not knowing the answer to that, it appears to me they got their facts mixed up.

JMO

Or maybe they got it correct that Abby was dressed in Libby's pants, but incorrect when stating the pants were jeans instead of sweatpants. Maybe she was found in Libby's sweatshirt (she was already wearing) and sweatpants.

 

[MistyWaters]

<snipped to reply>

I think they could take every other eyewitness out of the equation, every spotting of the car or other people on the trail seeing him and thinking he was xyz tall or had this or that on, etc. HE admitted to being there at the time in the exact clothing that the girls had of a man on video. HE is the reason they got that search warrant so how can anyone be misleading the judge or eliminating something to make it more likely to get a search warrant. Wouldn't the very fact that RA himself says I was there, I had this exactly clothing on and I have guns and knives be enough to lead to the granting of a search warrant?

It would certainly seem to me that RA’s self disclosure was enough to grant a SW. Even if the witnesses statements do not perfectly align, I think it’s generally understood that memory recall is far from perfect.