IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[mrjitty]

an aborted effort to cover their bodies is suggested in this

Delphi Murders: Illustrations Detail Defense Claims About Crime Scene

Graphic interpretations offer new insight into the items found at the scene that Richard Allen says are evidence of a ritual sacrifice.

www.courttv.com

That makes absolute sense to me.
He must have been experiencing a level of fatigue at that stage..
decided to leave, that it was unlikely they would be located swiftly.

I am going to speculate there is no actual evidence Odinists are involved in this case, let alone trying to fit the defendant up in prison.

 

[katydid23]

They didn't even spell check it before submission.
I mean FACES

2. That on September 13'", 2023, the Defendant filed an Amended Motionto Suppressthe evidence seized as a resultofthe search warrant3. Thatthe Defense alleges thatthe searchwarrant is unconstitutional because the issuance ofthe search warrant was aresult ofan improper exparte applicationin thatthe Afliant, SheriffTony Liggett, failedto advise the Judge ofmaterial faces and made false and misleading representations withreckless disregard forthe truth and that withoutthese false and misleading r...


It appears they lack experience.

I only found that one typo. That's not bad. It looks very clean and organised, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

A few times now I’ve seen it suggested RA may have been drunk at the time of the crime. Is this based on an official doc / statement by LE or just a best guess?

I think because of some past history. There was a domestic violence incident that involved alcohol in prior years.

Delphi suspect Richard Allen involved in ‘domestic incident’ 2 years before teens’ murders

In June 2015, less than two years before Libby German and Abby Williams were murdered in Delphi, Indiana, their accused killer Richard Allen was involved in a domestic incident.

nypost.com

Before Libby German and Abby Williams were murdered in Delphi, Indiana, local sheriff’s deputies responded to the home of accused killer Richard Allen over a “domestic” incident.

The records, obtained by Fox 59, revealed that officers arrived at the property – less than five minutes’ drive from the wooded area where Libby and Abby were found murdered – at around 3.30am that morning to find Mr Allen drunk.

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said Allen, a dad of one and a CVS technician, was allegedly drunk, and his wife took him to a hospital for a medical evaluation.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why would they post such incorrect info in their legal motion? We have all seen the photos of what the girls were wearing on that day---so how could the defense try and say the opposite ? I don't get it.

Because at the least, they are not the sharpest crayons in the box, and at the most, they are intentionally fabricating BS to incite chaos and pandemonium with their Memorandum. They did spend how many pages citing the step by step actions of redressing Abby?!

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

States 2nd Objection to Defendants Motion to Supress

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

This bullet point alone is enough to keep the SW in, I'm not worried:

33. That under the 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution, the evidence needed to obtain a search warrant need not rise to the statute of facts necessary to obtain a conviction, the circumstances alleged in the affidavit need only lead a person of reasonable caution to believe that a crime has been committed. Chambers v. State, 540 N.E.2d 600 (Ind. 1989).

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Bringing the Murder Sheet episodes over to this thread. KG answers many of the legal questions that we and others have.
In the second episode they go over McLeland's response to the memorandum.

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

In this episode, we will answer a litany of legal questions stemming from the Franks memorandum recently filed in the Delphi murders case. Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Prosecutor Nick McLeland Responds to the Franks Memorandum

Prosecutor Nick McLeland has made a few filings into the case against Richard Allen. Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

I’m working to educate myself on the pros and cons of cameras in a courtroom, as I try to understand McL’s position. I found this old, yet still relevant OJP document helpful; sharing here.

“The recognition that accompanies television exposure may also intrude on jurors' attentiveness and subject them to harassment or coercion. Also, the rule separating witnesses may be impaired when a trial is broadcast, and witnesses may become judges of their own and other witnesses' credibility.”

Case Against Cameras in the Courtroom | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

 

[Megnut]

I’m working to educate myself on the pros and cons of cameras in a courtroom, as I try to understand McL’s position. I found this old, yet still relevant OJP document helpful; sharing here.

“The recognition that accompanies television exposure may also intrude on jurors' attentiveness and subject them to harassment or coercion. Also, the rule separating witnesses may be impaired when a trial is broadcast, and witnesses may become judges of their own and other witnesses' credibility.”

Case Against Cameras in the Courtroom | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

That single quote IMO makes the case for filming every single trial and making it avalaible. At the conclusion of each trial.

There's a strong case to be made for that.

Jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

I’m working to educate myself on the pros and cons of cameras in a courtroom, as I try to understand McL’s position. I found this old, yet still relevant OJP document helpful; sharing here.

“The recognition that accompanies television exposure may also intrude on jurors' attentiveness and subject them to harassment or coercion. Also, the rule separating witnesses may be impaired when a trial is broadcast, and witnesses may become judges of their own and other witnesses' credibility.”

Case Against Cameras in the Courtroom | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Indiana courts have been live streaming since covid with little/no problems. Carroll Co will have a number of months to set up a computer system like many other counties have. That way, they could choose one camera or none but the public can still watch the trial live.

In Elkhart Co, the witnesses are brought into the courtroom one-by-one; so I assume they are kept together in a room where they can't hear testimony from other witnesses.

No one has to see the terrible autopsy photos unless prosecution chooses to do it. During the trials in Elkhart, the camera does not show the witnesses, other than the professional ones, cops, etc. I've never seen family members on display.

There are some IN courts live streaming right now if anyone is interested in seeing how things are done. Marshall and Lawrence are both in session right now. Some don't begin until 9 am.

IN Court Streams - IN Court Streams

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[steeltowngirl]

Indiana courts have been live streaming since covid with little/no problems. Carroll Co will have a number of months to set up a computer system like many other counties have. That way, they could choose one camera or none but the public can still watch the trial live.

In Elkhart Co, the witnesses are brought into the courtroom one-by-one; so I assume they are kept together in a room where they can't hear testimony from other witnesses.

No one has to see the terrible autopsy photos unless prosecution chooses to do it. During the trials in Elkhart, the camera does not show the witnesses, other than the professional ones, cops, etc. I've never seen family members on display.

There are some IN courts live streaming right now if anyone is interested in seeing how things are done. Marshall and Lawrence are both in session right now. Some don't begin until 9 am.

IN Court Streams - IN Court Streams

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

The cameras definitely showed witnesses, including family members, during the trials of Darrell Brooks, Alex Murdaugh, Casey Anthony, and Letecia Stauch, to name a few.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The cameras definitely showed witnesses, including family members, during the trials of Darrell Brooks, Alex Murdaugh, Casey Anthony, and Letecia Stauch, to name a few.

They sure did but that's Wisconsin. I'm not sure how it's decided in IN to show the witnesses, family. Elkhart's Judge Christofeno doesn't show them. In a recent trial in his courtroom, prosecution asked him to kill the live feed while she showed gruesome autopsy photos and he and defense agreed. IMO only because I have no link to back that up, we can't record livestreams in IN.

In the Kim Dyer murder trial the family members were shown when they gave their impact statements. I would guess they agreed to be seen.

 

[TL4S]

Bringing the Murder Sheet episodes over to this thread. KG answers many of the legal questions that we and others have.
In the second episode they go over McLeland's response to the memorandum.

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

In this episode, we will answer a litany of legal questions stemming from the Franks memorandum recently filed in the Delphi murders case. Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Prosecutor Nick McLeland Responds to the Franks Memorandum

Prosecutor Nick McLeland has made a few filings into the case against Richard Allen. Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

One possibility, imo, is that TC might still suspect one of the people he investigated in the Rushville connection, but even if that person was an Odinist, the killing itself was not ritualistic or otherwise related to the Odinist beliefs of the killer. Jmo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Prosecutors Want Delphi Court Docs Reviewed by Judge Before Public Release

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office has requested all pleadings and filings in the Delphi murders case should be “sealed for the Court’s Review Before Being Released to the Public.”

wibc.com

“The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office has requested all pleadings and filings in the Delphi murders case should be “sealed for the Court’s Review Before Being Released to the Public.”..”

 

[sunshineray]

I’m working to educate myself on the pros and cons of cameras in a courtroom, as I try to understand McL’s position. I found this old, yet still relevant OJP document helpful; sharing here.

“The recognition that accompanies television exposure may also intrude on jurors' attentiveness and subject them to harassment or coercion. Also, the rule separating witnesses may be impaired when a trial is broadcast, and witnesses may become judges of their own and other witnesses' credibility.”

Case Against Cameras in the Courtroom | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

I have confidence that this judge can handle her courtroom and instruct the jury sufficiently. The things mentioned are always things that can happen even if the trial isn't broadcast. That's what jury instruction by the court is all about, guidance in not making up your mind until you've heard all the evidence and considering only the evidence presented when it's time to decide. AJMO

 

[justtrish]

Yes it's a great response IMO.

The fact that RA placed himself on the bridge wearing the same clothes as Bridge Guy at the correct time amounts to probable cause.

The claim about the "generic' things seems much weaker to me. It's clear what knives, guns, clothes etc the state wanted to find - items used in the murder.

The fact that many americans have guns and knives and blue jackets and phones is irrelevant IMO

The reason they even talked to RA in the first place is because he came to tell them he was on the trail that day, at the same time as the girls AND he told them what he was wearing and it was identical to the man in the video. So while many Americans have all those items, it was RA himself that said hey I was there! This I suspect was before the photo and video were released showing the killer. He then came down to the station for a second interview when it was requested and he repeated exactly what he said before and told them again.. I was there, I had on jeans and blue or black jacket with a hood.. I was even on the bridge that day. Then when asked about guns and knives he says yes I have guns and knives at home. So before he had a chance to go home and get rid of things, they applied for that search warrant and the only reason they knew any of that was because RA offered it to them. They didn't go after RA because of what any witness said, they went after RA because he came forward and said I was there and I was in that exact outfit!

 

[Salah11]

The reason they even talked to RA in the first place is because he came to tell them he was on the trail that day, at the same time as the girls AND he told them what he was wearing and it was identical to the man in the video. So while many Americans have all those items, it was RA himself that said hey I was there! This I suspect was before the photo and video were released showing the killer. He then came down to the station for a second interview when it was requested and he repeated exactly what he said before and told them again.. I was there, I had on jeans and blue or black jacket with a hood.. I was even on the bridge that day. Then when asked about guns and knives he says yes I have guns and knives at home. So before he had a chance to go home and get rid of things, they applied for that search warrant and the only reason they knew any of that was because RA offered it to them. They didn't go after RA because of what any witness said, they went after RA because he came forward and said I was there and I was in that exact outfit!

Yes and only sheer incompetence stopped this being solved years earlier.

If they had done their job properly this should already be solved and him in jail for Life IMO

 

[Boxer]

A few times now I’ve seen it suggested RA may have been drunk at the time of the crime. Is this based on an official doc / statement by LE or just a best guess?

Just a guess as alcohol did play a big part in his life.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes and only sheer incompetence stopped this being solved years earlier.

If they had done their job properly this should already be solved and him in jail for Life IMO

One of the few pieces in the defence memorandum that has a ring of truth to it is RAs interview got filed under the name of Richard Allen Whiteman, the last part his address.

So I wonder was his initial interview really misfiled all that time or was it a case that later LE could find no such person as RAM? And how did that happen, did the CO ask to see ID and record it incorrectly, or a clerk input it incorrectly or did RA deliberately skew his name?

 

[MistyWaters]

Just a guess as alcohol did play a big part in his life.

I’d guess alcohol played a big part in his life based on spending his free time at a local pub, playing pool etc. Not to stereotype but it’s an activity where one is sure to be surrounded by other people who are drinking.

On that topic I also wonder if he had a prior drinking problem so his his wife accompanied him as a way of trying to control it. Sure it may be something they liked to do together but it also could be her way of “supervising” how much he drank and when he left the bar to go home. JMO

 

[Boxer]

One of the few pieces in the defence memorandum that has a ring of truth to it is RAs interview got filed under the name of Richard Allen Whiteman, the last part his address.

So I wonder was his initial interview really misfiled all that time or was it a case that later LE could find no such person as RAM? And how did that happen, did the CO ask to see ID and record it incorrectly, or a clerk input it incorrectly or did RA deliberately skew his name?

I am very interested in the exact reason such an important report was mishandled and by whom.