IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[zh0r4]

I'm still stunned by the weird coincidences surrounding this case. One victim was likely being catfished, the other was dating the son of an Odinist. Both angles were clearly investigated by LE, so while people here on WS dismiss it like it's some kind of joke, the taskforce apparently did not. In fact, they spent 5 weeks on a river search based on KAK's (a known liar) word, and TC felt strongly about his line of investigation on men who happened to be involved with Odinism, even if he doesn't feel it was ritualistic. The FBI and Purdue professor (and Harvard professor) supposedly say it looks like someone with Norse beliefs, or it was meant to appear that way. Now we have the guards wearing patches based on Norse beliefs? Even if RA just snapped and went out on the trails to get his kicks killing someone, it still doesn't take away the oddness of these other circumstances, just at face value, in and of themselves. It's weird, IMO.

Judge D recused himself. The warden got in legal trouble. The P said they have good reason to believe others are involved, and the D wasn't lying about every single thing they wrote. TL omitted witness details from the affidavit. What to make of it all?

Great points. These are all legitimate questions and personally, I’m not sure why so many people appear dismissive of a lot of the stuff in the memo. I read a post on another site where someone said the most recent motions/affidavits reiterated how silly the D memo was and how much they are reaching…JMO if anything, from my perspective, the more information that comes out, the more I think “Wow, this is surprising.”/it adds potential legitimacy in my mind to the D memo. It makes me really question how much in the memo is simply for theatrics? What if any of these allegations are true? As you said, LE was looking into the Odinism angle/potential connection, so why does it seem so far fetched?

If the patches were no big deal, then why were the COs ordered to remove them? In the affidavit it says they were worn before ordered to remove them-well why? The warden says it is allowed to wear patches (which IMO is unorthodox)-so why were they asked to remove the patches at all?

The only thing I can make of anything right now is confusion, but I’m ok being confused. A solid case will stand end the end.

 

[zh0r4]

The tasing turned out to be true.

Quote Pg 126 from the Memorandum:
"Additionally, in Matt Hoffman’s affidavit, you will find that at the last hearing on June 15, 2023, Rick was constantly pleading with the guards not to shock him. “Please don’t shock me. Please don’t shock me. Please don’t shock me.” Matt Hoffman indicated that Rick made that comment in front of multiple guards and in front of multiple members of Rick’s Defense team.
182 Affidavit of Max Baker"
***
Jones' affidavit Pg 2
21. That the Defendant was tased twice between May9th, 2023 and May25th, 2023 because we could not get him to comply with our orders.

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See this, regardless of RA’s guilt, is alarming to me, especially considering the other allegations. RA has not even had a trial yet, why is this happening?

 

[MistyWaters]

See this, regardless of RA’s guilt, is alarming to me, especially considering the other allegations. RA has not even had a trial yet, why is this happening?

It sure would be interesting to know the reason he was tased. Maybe his quiet, unassuming, docile personality is all a facade? We really know nothing much more than his image when he’s led into the courtroom.

What if he exhibited violent tendencies?

 

[zh0r4]

Usually when an inmate in non-compliant, they punish him by putting him in solitary. MOO
The only thing left to do with him was probably tasing him. Unless they wanted to beat him into submission; which could look like self-harm. That sounds familiar; I may have to go back through the Memorandum again.

We need a copy of the rules on using a taser on an inmate.

According to a good friend of mine who was a CO, it depends on the facility. Where they worked tasers weren’t used, but there are facilities where tasers are used. I am unsure about the situations where tasing inmates is applicable. Could the situations differ in different facilities or is there some type of state protocol per taser use in facilities that have tasers?

 

[Emma Peel]

I believe the D’s “manifesto” was never really about “Them Odinists over yonder-LOOK!” but more about pointing out, as you said, “shoddy investigation”. And I may be in the minority (this board would confirm that) that this is and has been since day one, a shoddy investigation.

RA could be guilty as Hell, and I think it is very possible, but P is gonna have to prove that to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt and so far, the Keystone antics leave me thinking that the P’s case could easily go sideways.

spilt milk, but (if I recall correctly) they coulda shoulda given up the investigation to FBI and their resources immediately. We all want the very best on this case the minute they went missing, were these our own girls, were they anyone's girls, frankly. I like to think all local LE / and even State LE would want/feel the same. IMO.

 

[Emma Peel]

It sure would be interesting to know the reason he was tased. Maybe his quiet, unassuming, docile personality is all a facade? We really know nothing much more than his image when he’s led into the courtroom.

What if he exhibited violent tendencies?

yes, that would be interesting.

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm still stunned by the weird coincidences surrounding this case. One victim was likely being catfished, the other was dating the son of an Odinist. Both angles were clearly investigated by LE, so while people here on WS dismiss it like it's some kind of joke, the taskforce apparently did not. In fact, they spent 5 weeks on a river search based on KAK's (a known liar) word, and TC felt strongly about his line of investigation on men who happened to be involved with Odinism, even if he doesn't feel it was ritualistic. The FBI and Purdue professor (and Harvard professor) supposedly say it looks like someone with Norse beliefs, or it was meant to appear that way. Now we have the guards wearing patches based on Norse beliefs? Even if RA just snapped and went out on the trails to get his kicks killing someone, it still doesn't take away the oddness of these other circumstances, just at face value, in and of themselves. It's weird, IMO.

Judge D recused himself. The warden got in legal trouble. The P said they have good reason to believe others are involved, and the D wasn't lying about every single thing they wrote. TL omitted witness details from the affidavit. What to make of it all?

Ugh, well done reviewing many of the crazy-making bits. Hindsight is 20/20 but not here. Not really.

(Acknowledging that we don't know the LE didn't run down the Odinist line thoroughly ...) I'd love to know if they've gone back to look at those with closer connections to heathen circle members. Maybe they did; the numbers published by LE as to the number of people they excluded ... were quite high as I recall.

And RL was a good contender ... a bit on the old side for the energy required for this crime.
I can't recall what cleared RL? Or was he not cleared?

 

[zh0r4]

It sure would be interesting to know the reason he was tased. Maybe his quiet, unassuming, docile personality is all a facade? We really know nothing much more than his image when he’s led into the courtroom.

What if he exhibited violent tendencies?

My concern is more about the fact he’s seemingly being treated like someone who has been tried and convicted and given a prison sentence, not the use of force COs use to defend themselves. Especially in conjunction with the allegations his meetings with his attorney were being recorded. JMO the apparent situation from the information and allegations presented appears incredibly unethical, even if he is guilty.

 

[zh0r4]

How do we know they didn't make it to a lab? The D rushed their memorandum out before they picked up the remaining batches of discovery from the P. Instead of picking up the batch that was ready on Sept 11. and reviewing it before filing their memo...the D waited 7 days, filed their memo...and claims in their memo they hope to pick up the discovery that is waiting for them on the date the memo was filed. IMO it looks like the D were afraid that something in the final batches of discovery might prevent them from making some of the arguments and/or statements they made in their memo. There was no fire drill or court-imposed deadline that forced them to file that motion and memo on the date that they chose to file it from what I can tell.

JMO

I interpreted the statement about the evidence not making it to the lab as referring to the displayed/staged branches and leaves allegedly at the crime scene allegedly not being sent to a lab. Especially considering there was confirmed DNA of a victims on one of the trees at the CS. Maybe I’m misunderstanding or maybe they did collect the branches and I am misinformed? I haven’t seen an inventory of evidence collected from the crime scene.

 

[MistyWaters]

My concern is more about the fact he’s seemingly being treated like someone who has been tried and convicted and given a prison sentence, not the use of force COs use to defend themselves. Especially in conjunction with the allegations his meetings with his attorney were being recorded. JMO the apparent situation from the information and allegations presented appears incredibly unethical, even if he is guilty.

Regardless where RA is detained he will be segregated and even elsewhere, I’m sure the defence would find something to gripe about. I’d be surprised if the judge holds another hearing on the same matter. So much time spent about his incarceration, next they’ll be objecting they’re not prepared for the trial.

IMO this expresses the unreasonable defence expectations very well.

Delphi suspect wanting 'intimate privacy' in prison with wife is 'astonishing': Prosecutor

Prosecutors in the Delphi murder case responded to allegations from Richard Allen's attorney's, calling his notion of a right to privacy with his wife "astonishing."

lawandcrime.com

 

[Emma Peel]

How do we know they didn't make it to a lab? The D rushed their memorandum out before they picked up the remaining batches of discovery from the P. Instead of picking up the batch that was ready on Sept 11. and reviewing it before filing their memo...the D waited 7 days, filed their memo...and claims in their memo they hope to pick up the discovery that is waiting for them on the date the memo was filed. IMO it looks like the D were afraid that something in the final batches of discovery might prevent them from making some of the arguments and/or statements they made in their memo. There was no fire drill or court-imposed deadline that forced them to file that motion and memo on the date that they chose to file it from what I can tell.

JMO

Point taken, I did make an assumption.

I assumed the Defense is smart enough to know it be extremely dumb (and not good for you or your client) to put the Judge through that long treatise-reading exercise on a theory that rests on specific evidence (the branches/trunk/runes etc.) without knowing you had all the labs on said evidence and had great confidence that RA's DNA wasn't all over that stuff.

Also, I assumed the prosecution would have attacked the theory in their answer had the labs from the site pointed to RA-related blood/DNA.

But maybe the D is not smart enough. Or P is still keeping from D lab results?

We shall see.

 

[CGBSpender]

DBM

 

[Emma Peel]

Where is that stated? I don't remember reading that.

JMO

Sorry I thought you guys were talking about a statement (comment) that I had made about labs?
Ignore my reply if not.

 

[CGBSpender]

@Emma Peel - I see it now, "There is no DNA linked RA to the crime scene." Allegedly taken from the Holeman Depo.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ugh, well done reviewing many of the crazy-making bits. Hindsight is 20/20 but not here. Not really.

(Acknowledging that we don't know the LE didn't run down the Odinist line thoroughly ...) I'd love to know if they've gone back to look at those with closer connections to heathen circle members. Maybe they did; the numbers published by LE as to the number of people they excluded ... were quite high as I recall.

And RL was a good contender ... a bit on the old side for the energy required for this crime.
I can't recall what cleared RL? Or was he not cleared?

His first alibi didn't check out but I believe the one that did check out was the one that sent him to jail. I don't have a link going that far back but I think one of the LE said something like: He said he was doing A, B and C but he was really doing D, E and F.

 

[Emma Peel]

His first alibi didn't check out but I believe the one that did check out was the one that sent him to jail. I don't have a link going that far back but I think one of the LE said something like: He said he was doing A, B and C but he was really doing D, E and F.

oh! How did I miss that! What a story. So ... he WAS cleared. Did some time for other things. Got out. Got Covid. But he was no longer a viable POI by then. Thank u!

 

[Boxer]

See this, regardless of RA’s guilt, is alarming to me, especially considering the other allegations. RA has not even had a trial yet, why is this happening?

If you believe RAs "please don't shock me."
Sounds a lot like the old ploy of crying out "stop hitting me" while pummeling a sibling.

 

[Sabex]

So the guards really were wearing Odinist patches?

Odinism is a religion, not a prison gang.

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this here, but it's an article from what I think is a reputable source.

Mods, if this isn't appropriate please snip this comment, thanks.

'Odinism': How white supremacists co-opt pagan symbols to further racist agendas in the United States

White supremacists have long had a tendency to steal, then subvert, the original meaning of symbols and runes used by peaceful, pagan religions worldwide.

www.wthr.com

 

[mrjitty]

I get that it is easy to get swept up in the Defence's wild Odinist claims which they now apparently take back to some extent but there is still a fundamental problem for me.

LE investigated potential offenders whom the defence would have us believe are the real odinist gang of killers. While a wild theory, not unusual for defence to write fan fic about the alleged offenders

But all that can have nothing to do with RA's time in jail after arrest unless you believe in wild conspiracies or he is the unluckiest man ever.

The defence seem to be trying to float at least two different explanations for his confession. One is mental instability, and the other is somehow the odinest prison guards are trying to break him because reasons. But then they also don't claim either of these things are really happening.

Remember originally when they tried to get him transferred out of the prison, they claimed it was due to mental health deterioration and psychotic/schizophrenic behaviour and no mention of Odinist prison guards trying to fit him up.

Yet these days the defence isn't claiming he is a psychotic/schizophrenic

Sigh

 

[girlhasnoname]

The tasing turned out to be true.

Quote Pg 126 from the Memorandum:
"Additionally, in Matt Hoffman’s affidavit, you will find that at the last hearing on June 15, 2023, Rick was constantly pleading with the guards not to shock him. “Please don’t shock me. Please don’t shock me. Please don’t shock me.” Matt Hoffman indicated that Rick made that comment in front of multiple guards and in front of multiple members of Rick’s Defense team.
182 Affidavit of Max Baker"
***
Jones' affidavit Pg 2
21. That the Defendant was tased twice between May9th, 2023 and May25th, 2023 because we could not get him to comply with our orders.

Scanned Document | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - Scanned Document

pdfhost.io

Of course Defendant Allen would want to appear 'oh so compliant and persecuted' in front of his Attorneys. He wanted to drive that home for dramatics IMO. The guard admitted to tasing RA 2 times for not complying with orders. RA was filmed 24/7 because of suicidal statements and safety so they probably have those incidents on tape. IMO

Was the tasing before or after the Judge denied the Defense motion to have moved from Westerville? Surely if she had known of these 2 incidents, she would have considered them greatly before making her decision that RA was safer there than anywhere else?

We have heard of RA's anger outbursts in jail (breaking his tablet, throwing things, etc.) and weren't the police called to his home at least on one occasion? Or maybe the wife just drove him to the hospital? Either way, I think Rick had a temper.


JMO