IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[TL4S]

RA placed himself at the scene, dressed as the likely killer, same jeans, same style jacket with a hood, 'maybe' wearing a head covering. The literal outfit of bridge guy. He self admitted to all of this... ZERO coercion...before the video came out.

Imagine his surprise when he found out there was video of a similarly pudgy man in the same exact outfit. Oops.

That alone is enough to get 100 search warrants as far as I'm concerned. It would be enough in a gas station robbery case (voluntary witness places himself at the scene in the same close as the robber before surveillance video comes out) , never mind a double child homicide.

MOO

He didn't admit to the CO what he was wearing, so that was unknown until Oct. 2022, when he admitted during his interview with LE. That's what blows my mind. What was his reasoning for doing so then? Because at that point, he'd known about the video for over 5 years.

Maybe he had replaced the blue jacket, unbeknownst to KA, so wasn't worried about it getting collected? Idk.

 

[mrjitty]

I am going to go out o a limb here and speculate that we will discover Odinism has nothing to do with this case.

 

[zh0r4]

Does anyone know how many feet from Deer Creek the bodies were left? I’m trying to figure out if they were left close enough that he was able to kill Abby in the creek, which would explain why she didn’t have any blood on her and the lack of blood at the scene, and then drag her to her final place.

This is what I was able to find per feet from Deer Creek in news articles:
“The bodies of two girls -- Liberty Rose Lynn German, 14, and Abigail Jay Williams, 13, both of Carroll County -- were found on Tuesday near a creek, roughly three-quarters of a mile (3,960 ft; 0.75 miles) from an abandoned railroad bridge, near Delphi, where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking, and an autopsy revealed their identities. (Feb 19, 2017)
Unidentified man in photo is a suspect in the homicides of two Indiana girls

“The search continues for the girls, and around noon, teams find two bodies about a half-mile (2,640 ft; 0.5 miles) away from the bridge.” (Jan 21, 2019)

Delphi, Indiana, Murders: Everything We Know About Killings of Abby Williams and Libby German

“Their bodies found the next day about a quarter mile (1.320 ft; 0.25) from an abandoned railroad bridge that's part of the trail.” (10/30/2022)
TIMELINE | Major development in 2017 murders of 2 Delphi, Indiana teens expected Monday

“An extensive search for the missing teens turned tragic just after noon the following day when their bodies were found along the north bank of Deer Creek, about a half-mile (2,640 ft; 0.5 miles) from the bridge near the Delphi Historic Trail.” (10/31/2022)
Delphi murders: Pharmacy tech charged in 2017 deaths of Libby German, Abby Williams

To add:
“The two victims were found “deceased in the woods,” their bodies located on the north side of the Deer Creek.” (December 1, 2022)

Richard ‘Ricky’ Allen, Delphi Murders Suspect: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

 

[zh0r4]

We might not know what happened, but we can look at the probabilities.

A bullet was found at the scene, it's probable that they were kidnapped and marched off at gunpoint.

Both girls were undressed at some point during the ordeal.

A man does not march off two teen girls at gun point and force them to undress for many reasons.

The probability of this being anything other than a sick sex crime is miniscule.

If he marched them off at gunpoint (sig p226 .40 cal, allegedly), how likely would it be for an unspent bullet to fall out of the clip? Abduction at gunpoint makes sense, but I’m trying to come up with ideas that would result in one unspent bullet at the scene? Did the clip fall out? Would one lone bullet fall out of the clip if it did? Any theories?

 

[mrjitty]

If he marched them off at gunpoint (sig p226 .40 cal, allegedly), how likely would it be for an unspent bullet to fall out of the clip? Abduction at gunpoint makes sense, but I’m trying to come up with ideas that would result in one unspent bullet at the scene? Did the clip fall out? Would one lone bullet fall out of the clip if it did? Any theories?

Eg he worked the action (e.g. to make it safe) and the bullet went on the ground and he forgot it, or it fell out of his pocket - etc

 

[TL4S]

Here is a bit of the transcription of MS's clarification of what TC told them. I find the bolded part interesting. I feel like he's still suspicious of some of the people he investigated (not the ritualistic killing stuff). Jmo.

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

Click - There are two things that I would like to clear up immediately though. Detective Ferency and Detective Murphy were not Rushville cops. Detective Ferency was a detective from the Terre Haute police department that was assigned to the FBI joint terrorism task force. Detective Murphy was an Indiana state police detective that was also assigned to the FBI joint terrorism task force. So the FBI was associated with the investigation until at least July 2021.

Secondly, no one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism. You can quote me on those two items.

MS - Some people have suggested that while you disagree with the defense that this was a ritual murder that you have agreement with them on who is responsible. Is that something you can speak to?

Click - Yes, that is accurate.

 

[girlhasnoname]

He didn't admit to the CO what he was wearing, so that was unknown until Oct. 2022, when he admitted during his interview with LE. That's what blows my mind. What was his reasoning for doing so then? Because at that point, he'd known about the video for over 5 years.

Maybe he had replaced the blue jacket, unbeknownst to KA, so wasn't worried about it getting collected? Idk.

I think LE told RA that they had photos from witnesses (the 3 young girls & lady) showing he was there. That's why I think he admitted to what he was wearing and that he was at those specific locations. He was afraid of what they actually had and didn't want to get caught in a lie if he thought there were photos of him.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Here is a bit of the transcription of MS's clarification of what TC told them. I find the bolded part interesting. I feel like he's still suspicious of some of the people he investigated (not the ritualistic killing stuff). Jmo.

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

Click - There are two things that I would like to clear up immediately though. Detective Ferency and Detective Murphy were not Rushville cops. Detective Ferency was a detective from the Terre Haute police department that was assigned to the FBI joint terrorism task force. Detective Murphy was an Indiana state police detective that was also assigned to the FBI joint terrorism task force. So the FBI was associated with the investigation until at least July 2021.

Secondly, no one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism. You can quote me on those two items.

MS - Some people have suggested that while you disagree with the defense that this was a ritual murder that you have agreement with them on who is responsible. Is that something you can speak to?

Click - Yes, that is accurate.

Do you think that means who LE thinks is responsible ie RA? Or someone else? I'm still open to the idea that RA had help in some fashion, either catfishing and knowing Libby and Abby would be there that day or someone else waiting at the CS.

Of course I change my mind daily on that, as I have with this case from the start.

MOO

 

[TL4S]

Do you think that means who LE thinks is responsible ie RA? Or someone else? I'm still open to the idea that RA had help in some fashion, either catfishing and knowing Libby and Abby would be there that day or someone else waiting at the CS.

Of course I change my mind daily on that, as I have with this case from the start.

MOO

In my interpretation, TC is saying he agrees with who the D says is responsible, which would be any or all of the men the D spoke about in the memorandum (who TC, KM, and GF investigated): BH, EF, PW, JM, or RA (not the accused RA).

There's also this quote from TC, which the D included in their memorandum, as well. Bear in mind, we do NOT have the context of the letter from which this paragraph was taken. But personally, I think there is some disagreement among LE. JMO. MOO. IMO and all that.

Page 9

 

[sunshineray]

Does anyone know how many feet from Deer Creek the bodies were left? I’m trying to figure out if they were left close enough that he was able to kill Abby in the creek, which would explain why she didn’t have any blood on her and the lack of blood at the scene, and then drag her to her final place.

"The bodies of both girls were found shortly after noontime on Feb. 14, in a wooded area about 50 feet from Deer Creek and a half mile east of the bridge."

Delphi murders: What we know about the case

There still have still been no arrests in the Delphi killings of 2017. Here's what we know about the case.

www.indystar.com

 

[sunshineray]

Here is a bit of the transcription of MS's clarification of what TC told them. I find the bolded part interesting. I feel like he's still suspicious of some of the people he investigated (not the ritualistic killing stuff). Jmo.

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

Click - There are two things that I would like to clear up immediately though. Detective Ferency and Detective Murphy were not Rushville cops. Detective Ferency was a detective from the Terre Haute police department that was assigned to the FBI joint terrorism task force. Detective Murphy was an Indiana state police detective that was also assigned to the FBI joint terrorism task force. So the FBI was associated with the investigation until at least July 2021.

Secondly, no one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism. You can quote me on those two items.

MS - Some people have suggested that while you disagree with the defense that this was a ritual murder that you have agreement with them on who is responsible. Is that something you can speak to?

Click - Yes, that is accurate.

Did TC clarify that "Yes"?

 

[iamnotagolem]

If he marched them off at gunpoint (sig p226 .40 cal, allegedly), how likely would it be for an unspent bullet to fall out of the clip? Abduction at gunpoint makes sense, but I’m trying to come up with ideas that would result in one unspent bullet at the scene? Did the clip fall out? Would one lone bullet fall out of the clip if it did? Any theories?

A bullet wouldn't fall out of the magazine. My theory has been he racked the slide while he was on the bridge to intimidate the girls and already had a round chambered. I think the round landed in the folds of his jeans where they gathered around his ankles. Then I think the round fell out of his jeans when he was moving the girls or covering them with branches and just didn't notice.

edit: or he cleared the chamber at the killing site to put his gun away and didn't pick up the ejected round, but this is hard to imagine him just leaving it there if he was clearing the chamber

Edit again for wrong word

 

[MistyWaters]

In my interpretation, TC is saying he agrees with who the D says is responsible, which would be any or all of the men the D spoke about in the memorandum (who TC, KM, and GF investigated): BH, EF, PW, JM, or RA (not the accused RA).

There's also this quote from TC, which the D included in their memorandum, as well. Bear in mind, we do NOT have the context of the letter from which this paragraph was taken. But personally, I think there is some disagreement among LE. JMO. MOO. IMO and all that.

Page 9
View attachment 450021

I didn't get out anything that was said that TC felt the four were responsible. However he believed the four should‘ve been investigated further by the task force. As he retired in 2021, maybe it happened, we don’t know as LE doesn’t inform the public who and how potential suspects were cleared.

 

[TL4S]

Did TC clarify that "Yes"?

No. The only other thing he spoke to is that the D put he and the other detectives who worked this angle on a pedestal, but they were just doing their jobs. I'm summarizing, of course. IMO, in this very brief statement, TC did not really give a yay or nay on RA, only that he agrees with the D's memorandum on who is responsible. Take that as we will.

 

[Megnut]

Perhaps he racked the slide twice. Once, near the bridge, once below. He may have pocketed the second one as a keepsake, figuring the first one plummeted to the water below the bridge... not transferred to the crime scene, undetected.

JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

I think LE told RA that they had photos from witnesses (the 3 young girls & lady) showing he was there. That's why I think he admitted to what he was wearing and that he was at those specific locations. He was afraid of what they actually had and didn't want to get caught in a lie if he thought there were photos of him.

MOO

This makes a lot of sense.

 

[TL4S]

I didn't get out anything that was said that TC felt the four were responsible. However he believed the four should‘ve been investigated further by the task force. As he retired in 2021, maybe it happened, we don’t know as LE doesn’t inform the public who and how potential suspects were cleared.

MS - Some people have suggested that while you disagree with the defense that this was a ritual murder that you have agreement with them on who is responsible. Is that something you can speak to?

Click - Yes, that is accurate.

I guess it really depends on if TC took MS's question at face value. But yes, the underlying current of the memorandum seems to be whether or not LE investigated these men enough. And like you said, if TC had been retired for over a year before RA was arrested, there could be a lot he doesn't know. It seems to me that when that arrested happened,TC had questions, and it makes sense he wanted to know about the evidence against RA at that point. According to the memorandum, it's possile after he met with JH and another detective, his questions were not answered to his satisfaction, but who knows. After all, no arrests were made as a result of TC's investigation.

To be clear, I'm comfortable skipping over all the Odinism stuff in the memorandum. I do not think this was a sacrifice, and I believe TC when he says no LE officers do, either. However, I can believe that TC thinks it's possible the responsible person happens to be an Odinist. Even if there was a signature left behind that hints at an Odinist belief, that does not automatically make the motive related to the killer's faith. JMO.

 

[sunshineray]

A bullet wouldn't fall out of the magazine. My theory has been he racked the slide while he was on the bridge to intimidate the girls and already had a round chambered. I think the round landed in the folds of his jeans where they gathered around his ankles. Then I think the round fell out of his jeans when he was moving the girls or covering them with branches and just didn't notice.

edit: or he cleared the chamber at the killing site to put his gun away and didn't pick up the ejected round, but this is hard to imagine him just leaving it there if he was clearing the chamber

Edit again for wrong word

Being that, according to the defense memorandum, Libby's phone was found under Abby's back, I can see RA either ejecting the round without thinking about it or realizing and spending some time looking for it until he had to get out of there. I tend to think maybe he just didn't remember exactly where he was standing when he did it, with everything he had done all jumbled in his mind. AJMO

I'm still not certain RA was alone in killing the girls.

 

[mrjitty]

I think LE told RA that they had photos from witnesses (the 3 young girls & lady) showing he was there. That's why I think he admitted to what he was wearing and that he was at those specific locations. He was afraid of what they actually had and didn't want to get caught in a lie if he thought there were photos of him.

MOO

Doing that interview was so stupid.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

This is what I was able to find per feet from Deer Creek in news articles:
“The bodies of two girls -- Liberty Rose Lynn German, 14, and Abigail Jay Williams, 13, both of Carroll County -- were found on Tuesday near a creek, roughly three-quarters of a mile (3,960 ft; 0.75 miles) from an abandoned railroad bridge, near Delphi, where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking, and an autopsy revealed their identities. (Feb 19, 2017)
Unidentified man in photo is a suspect in the homicides of two Indiana girls

“The search continues for the girls, and around noon, teams find two bodies about a half-mile (2,640 ft; 0.5 miles) away from the bridge.” (Jan 21, 2019)

Delphi, Indiana, Murders: Everything We Know About Killings of Abby Williams and Libby German

“Their bodies found the next day about a quarter mile (1.320 ft; 0.25) from an abandoned railroad bridge that's part of the trail.” (10/30/2022)
TIMELINE | Major development in 2017 murders of 2 Delphi, Indiana teens expected Monday

“An extensive search for the missing teens turned tragic just after noon the following day when their bodies were found along the north bank of Deer Creek, about a half-mile (2,640 ft; 0.5 miles) from the bridge near the Delphi Historic Trail.” (10/31/2022)
Delphi murders: Pharmacy tech charged in 2017 deaths of Libby German, Abby Williams

To add:
“The two victims were found “deceased in the woods,” their bodies located on the north side of the Deer Creek.” (December 1, 2022)

Richard ‘Ricky’ Allen, Delphi Murders Suspect: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

In all the photos I saw of the crime scene the creek within a 30 second walk, within eyesight easily. In fact the girls were initially spotted from ACROSS the creek. There was a steep incline from the creek to about 6 feet then a normal hill elevation.